Re-thinking my GTD lists slightly...

Ship69

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Hello

I have been re-thinking how I want to my main GTD actionable status "lists" to work. Here is a summary of the main lists that I think I need:

1. "INBOX"

2. "NOT LIVE"/ "SOMEDAY-MAYBE" / "Proposed stuff" / "Possible stuff"
... some of which is:
==> 2.1. "Paused Stuff"
==> 2.2. "Soon / Later"

3. "LIVE STUFF" / "Next Actions" / "Active Actions" / "Do ASAP" / "In Progress"
...some of which is:
==> 3.1.1. "Complete this week - EXTERNAL".
==> 3.1.2. "Complete this week - INTERNAL".
==> 3.2. "Urgent" / "Dead Urgent" / "Important stuff"
==> 3.3. "Focus on Today" / "Starred"
==> 3.4. List by each of my Contexts

4. WAITING / SCHEDULED / TICKLER
...some of which is:
==> 4.1. Person List/Agenda

5. ARCHIVE

6. INFORMATION
==> 6.1.1 "Points to ponder" / "New Ideas" / "Reflective Thoughts"
==> 6.1.2 "Points to ponder" / "New Ideas"/ "Reflective Thoughts"
==> 5.2 Information I want to store for possible use at some point.

7. COMPLETED

****************************************************************************************

Drilling down into what each of the above List actually means, and how I am going to use it, I have:


1. "INBOX"
[ - In practice not quite all of my new stuff gets added in here, as it's sometimes much faster to put new items that are closely related to existing stuff in next to that stuff... ]

2. "NOT LIVE"/ "SOMEDAY-MAYBE" / "Proposed stuff" / "Possible stuff" /
- This is stuff that I am NOT ready to start yet.
- ALL of this stuff must be reviewed every week (during my Weekly Review).
- Due to shifting priorities, I may not ever do this stuff.
- This is stuff I hope to get on to within the next 3 months or so.

... some of which is:

==> 2.1. "Paused Stuff"
- This is stuff that I have already started but have deliberately put onto hold.
- But it is kept here because it is hoped that I might restart fairly soon.

...and/or

==> 2.2. "Soon / Later"
- This is stuff which is coming at me but which I don't need to start yet.
- It is useful to have this sub-list when there is a vast amount of stuff already in Someday-Maybe.
- I will look at this during the week if I am getting ahead/have spare time to see if it is worth bringing "Live".


3. "LIVE STUFF" / "Next Actions" / "Active Actions" / "Do ASAP" / "In Progress"
- This is stuff that I hope to work on during this week (i.e. before the next Weekly Review)
- I need to scan ALL of this stuff at least once per day (during a Daily Review)
- For larger projects it is helpful to be able to only show the next [n] actions per project. (e.g. just 3 actions plus any "Force Nexts")

...some of the above will be:

==> 3.1.1. "Complete this week - EXTERNAL".
- Must be completed this week, due to immovable external deadline (e.g. a crunch meeting / conference etc)

==> 3.1.2. "Complete this week - INTERNAL".
This is has been committed to be completed this week, but there is no external/immovable deadline.

...some of the above will be:

==> 3.2. "Urgent" / "Dead Urgent" / "Important stuff"
- If dead urgent, then it will probably stay on successive "Focus on Today" lists
- This must leap out at me.

==> 3.3. "Focus on Today" / "Starred"
- At the start of each day I decide what stuff I shall work on today.
- This may or may not be similar to what was focused on yesterday

==> 3.4. "By Context"
- Separately, all of "3." (i.e. the Live stuff) needs to be viewable by Context


4. WAITING / SCHEDULED / TICKLER
[Yes, I am conflating GTD concepts - heresy, I know!]
- This is stuff I don't want to see AT ALL for X amount of time.
- I don't need to see it during Weekly Reviews.
- If I am waiting for someone to do something, will put in a start date of when I want to chase them up.

...some of the above will be:
==> 4.1. Person List/Agenda
-It may be useful to flag who the person I'm waiting for is, if only to use to create an Agenda list.


5. ARCHIVE
- This is very long term stuff that I know I won't do withing the next 3 months and I don't want to delete just yet. I will look at it every 3-6 months or so.


6. INFORMATION
This is stuff that is not actionable, that I just want to store
==> 6.1.1 "Points to ponder" / "New Ideas" / "Reflective Thoughts"
- Non-acdtionable stuff I want to review soon

==> 6.1.2 "Points to ponder" / "New Ideas"/ "Reflective Thoughts"
Stuff I do NOT want to review for a while.

==> 6.2 Information I want to store for possible use at some point.
- This could really be stored in Evernote


7. COMPLETED
This must NEVER appear when I am looking at
I will normally delete this stuff to get it out of the way.


***********************************************

Anyhow that is as far as my thinking has got. I have no idea how I am going to implement the above technically, as non of the tools I am aware of even has an separate field for List (i.e. actionable status) that is actually editable, and all other options seem to have unintended consequences.

Any thoughts?

J
 

Gardener

Registered
My concern is that you say that you don't read very fast. I read very very fast. But your system has more stuff to read, more often, than my system. This seems like a problem.
 

mcogilvie

Registered
I'm doing pretty well with due dates and flags and four basic next action contexts: anywhere, home, work and out. I've tried elaborate sets of lists, but it always proved unusable.
 

Ship69

Registered
My concern is that you say that you don't read very fast. I read very very fast. But your system has more stuff to read, more often, than my system. This seems like a problem.
To be fair I'm trying to minimise how much to read.
But what I find is that if I don't complete my daily and weekly reviews fully, then I start to lose overall.
Although how much to read depends on how much you put into each List, no?
I'm not sure how to create less to read.
J
 

Gardener

Registered
To be fair I'm trying to minimise how much to read.
But what I find is that if I don't complete my daily and weekly reviews fully, then I start to lose overall.
Although how much to read depends on how much you put into each List, no?
I'm not sure how to create less to read.
J

Have you considered the idea of not reviewing the entire Someday/Maybe list weekly? Many people have things that are reviewed weekly, things that are reviewed monthly, quarterly, yearly, and so on.

And have you considered not reviewing your entire body of daily lists daily?

Also, you mention "the next n actions per project". If you have a long list of actions for a project, maybe that could go to project support material.
 

Longstreet

Professor of microbiology and infectious diseases
Have you considered the idea of not reviewing the entire Someday/Maybe list weekly? Many people have things that are reviewed weekly, things that are reviewed monthly, quarterly, yearly, and so on.

And have you considered not reviewing your entire body of daily lists daily?

Also, you mention "the next n actions per project". If you have a long list of actions for a project, maybe that could go to project support material.
I believe we MUST do everything we can to remove distractions. This is why I am such an advocate for deep work blocks.
 

Ship69

Registered
Have you considered the idea of not reviewing the entire Someday/Maybe list weekly? Many people have things that are reviewed weekly, things that are reviewed monthly, quarterly, yearly, and so on.

And have you considered not reviewing your entire body of daily lists daily?

Also, you mention "the next n actions per project". If you have a long list of actions for a project, maybe that could go to project support material.

> things that are reviewed weekly, things that are reviewed monthly, quarterly, yearly, and so on
This is an interesting idea. Although I don't quite understand how that would be implemented. Is it done on the first day of every week, first day of every calendar month, first day of each quarter? (Of not first, then the same given day of the above///)

> And have you considered not reviewing your entire body of daily lists daily?
Yes, but I feel that this is where I have been going wrong, as stuff that is lower down my daily lists may not get seen at all. I was under the impression that a core part of the GTD method is to actually complete your reviews FULLY.

For larger projects I like to have about 3 next actions visible, if the software allows (e.g. Nirvana). And/or to have some that are flagged as what GTDNext calls "Forced Next" - which forces the task onto the Next [n] Actions list.

> If you have a long list of actions for a project, maybe that could go to project support material.
How does that help?
I mean how do you know what to do next if the tasks are in a different system?
 

Ship69

Registered
I'm doing pretty well with due dates and flags and four basic next action contexts: anywhere, home, work and out. I've tried elaborate sets of lists, but it always proved unusable.
I used start dates to defer things.
The problem with due dates, is what happens once things are late. Is there not a risk of having tons of stuff that is overdue, and if so I'm not sure how this helps.
 

mcogilvie

Registered
I used start dates to defer things.
The problem with due dates, is what happens once things are late. Is there not a risk of having tons of stuff that is overdue, and if so I'm not sure how this helps.

I'm a veteran of the Franklin Planner epoch, when giant binders roamed the earth, and Covey towered over the bestseller list. When you see a collision coming up between reality and what you have agreed to do, you have to keep the agreement or re-negotiate it, even if that means talking to yourself. I think of it as situational awareness. I am looking at my lists and my calendar many times every day. I know that there are things I have to do for meetings on Tuesday and Thursday. I know I will not have a full evening to get things done Wednesday and Thursday because of commitments I've made. I have something that was due while I was sick, and the editor and I have communicated about it. In other words, due dates get handled.
 

mcogilvie

Registered
I'm a veteran of the Franklin Planner epoch, when giant binders roamed the earth, and Covey towered over the bestseller list. When you see a collision coming up between reality and what you have agreed to do, you have to keep the agreement or re-negotiate it, even if that means talking to yourself. I think of it as situational awareness. I am looking at my lists and my calendar many times every day. I know that there are things I have to do for meetings on Tuesday and Thursday. I know I will not have a full evening to get things done Wednesday and Thursday because of commitments I've made. I have something that was due while I was sick, and the editor and I have communicated about it. In other words, due dates get handled.
I'm a veteran of the Franklin Planner epoch, when giant binders roamed the earth, and Covey towered over the bestseller list. When you see a collision coming up between reality and what you have agreed to do, you have to keep the agreement or re-negotiate it, even if that means talking to yourself. I think of it as situational awareness. I am looking at my lists and my calendar many times every day. I know that there are things I have to do for meetings on Tuesday and Thursday. I know I will not have a full evening to get things done Wednesday and Thursday because of commitments I've made. I have something that was due while I was sick, and the editor and I have communicated about it. In other words, due dates get handled.
 

Gardener

Registered
> things that are reviewed weekly, things that are reviewed monthly, quarterly, yearly, and so on
This is an interesting idea. Although I don't quite understand how that would be implemented. Is it done on the first day of every week, first day of every calendar month, first day of each quarter? (Of not first, then the same given day of the above///)

It would depend on your system. OmniFocus lets you set the review frequency for each project, and when you go into review mode, it displays the projects that are due for review.

If I didn't have OmniFocus, I'd probably have separate lists for each Someday/Maybe review frequency. A Weekly Review list, a Monthly Review list, and so on.

After I reviewed one of those Someday/Maybe lists, I'd write/enter the date for the next review on the list. When the weekly review came around, I'd look at each list, see if we'd reached that date, and if not, I'd skip that list for that review.

I was under the impression that a core part of the GTD method is to actually complete your reviews FULLY.

I didn't think that was the consensus of the people commenting on your previous thread. I don't review all of my active projects every day. Only in the weekly review do I make sure they're all reviewed.

A possible solution to the problem of not getting to the end of your lists could be to sort them by priority in the weekly review, or to put as much as possible in Someday/Maybe and as little as possible in the active projects.

> If you have a long list of actions for a project, maybe that could go to project support material.
How does that help?
I mean how do you know what to do next if the tasks are in a different system?

I'm not suggesting that you put of your Next Actions in a different system. Instead, I'm suggesting that a long list of pre-planned actions is not necessarily the best plan. It adds complexity, and in your case, it gives you more to read, more often.

I prefer to plan my projects in project support material, and only put one or two actions per project in my project/action lists. If I put more than that in, I usually find myself spending a lot of time tending the action lists.
 

Ship69

Registered
@Gardener:
> A possible solution to the problem of not getting to the end of your lists could be to sort them by priority in the weekly review,
Yes I do like having things in priority order. However the risk in doing this is that one never gets to fully complete one's daily review because one already knows that the stuff lower down is lower in priority.
Nonetheless this can be a trap because priorities change and I find myself failing to even be aware of stuff at the bottom or my lists.
Ultimately each task is either on your "Active" / "Do ASAP" list or it isn't.

> or to put as much as possible in Someday/Maybe and as little as possible in the active projects.
Yes, agreed. And this is what I am now trying to do.
 

Ship69

Registered
OK, I'm still confused about reviews!

As I see it David Allen recommends we keep a list of stuff that is live/active that we review every day with a hope that we may do some work to progress it this week.

And then there is the Someday-Maybe stuff. This is stuff we have decided that we don't want to even look at at all until the end (or start) of the next period (e.g. week).

So it sounds like in practice, many GTD users like to put this Someday-Maybe stuff into the following sub-lists. Weekly, Monthly, Quarterly. If I am correct, these lists work as follows:

a) Weekly stuff
i.e. "I plan to look carefully at all of these items in my next Weekly Review at the end of this week (or else start of the next week), mainly to see if I want to move it into being Live (or do anything else with it e.g. archive/delete etc) "
Typically this would happen on a Friday afternoon or Monday morning.

b) Monthly stuff
i.e. "I plan to look carefully at all of these items in my next Monthly Review at the end of this month (or else start of the next month), mainly to see if I want to move it into being Live (or do anything else with it e.g. archive/delete etc)"
Typically this would happen on the last working day of the month (30th or 31st) or the 1st.

c) Quarterly stuff
i.e. "I plan to look carefully at all of these items in my next Quarterly Review at the end of this Quarter (or else start of the next Quarter), mainly to see if I want to move it into being Live (or do anything else with it e.g. archive/delete etc)"
Typically this would happen on:
- Q1: end of Dec, or else start of Jan
- Q2: end of Mar, or else start of April
- Q3: end of Jun, or else start of July
- Q4: end of Sep, or else start of Oct

And, to get clear, the crucial concept is that the user never needs to even look at all the Someday-Maybe stuff at any other time.

Something like that?
 

Oogiem

Registered
OK, I'm still confused about reviews!

As I see it David Allen recommends we keep a list of stuff that is live/active that we review every day with a hope that we may do some work to progress it this week.

And then there is the Someday-Maybe stuff. This is stuff we have decided that we don't want to even look at at all until the end (or start) of the next period (e.g. week).

And, to get clear, the crucial concept is that the user never needs to even look at all the Someday-Maybe stuff at any other time.

Something like that?
It depends on you. I read fast and like long lists. I keep active in my everyday list of next actions by context anything I'd like to or possibly could work in this quarter. I review all my next action lists daily and I review all active projects weekly. Inactive, either pending a future start date or in someday maybe can have different review schedules set up. I use Omnifocus so it's easy. For example, I have as a project a repeating project that starts in October of getting the irrigation system ready for winter. I use repeating projects in Omnifocus like other people use checklists. I effectively "tear off" a copy to work the project and then it goes dormant until I need it again. In any case I know don't need to review that until closer to fall so I set a start date in October and the review date is every 3 months. But until then I won't see it during review time very often. Once it becomes an active project, i.e. the start date happens I will change the review date to weekly so I get it dealt with every week. I do in depth reviews every quarter on the solstices and the equinoxes or the closest weekly review to then. I also do a much larger year end review in December to get me all set up for the next year.

Other items are things like a list of knitting projects I want to do. I only have 1 knitting project going at a time so there isn't even a need to look at any others until I finish the one I have started. The last action on any knitting project is to review my S/M list of projects and pick one to start next. So the list of possible projects is actually a written list in DEVONThink to keep my Omnifocus system uncluttered.

The key for me is flexibility to move things in and out of someday/maybe easily, to start and stop projects easily and to change the review timeframe based on the work easily. I've chosen a GTD list manager that allows that to happen naturally.

For someone who doesn't like to read much I'd put everything that is not the current next action for things you will do THIS WEEK into your project support material. When you work on any project you are going to have that material out and available so once you finish the current next action on that project if you choose to continue to work in that project you'll have the actions available and you can work them. When you stop, for whatever reason, put the next action into your lists in the right context and the rest of your plan will live in project support.

You seem to need to limit your options and deciding how often things really need to be reviewed is one of the ways to do that.
 

mcogilvie

Registered
OK, I'm still confused about reviews!

As I see it David Allen recommends we keep a list of stuff that is live/active that we review every day with a hope that we may do some work to progress it this week.

And then there is the Someday-Maybe stuff. This is stuff we have decided that we don't want to even look at at all until the end (or start) of the next period (e.g. week).

So it sounds like in practice, many GTD users like to put this Someday-Maybe stuff into the following sub-lists. Weekly, Monthly, Quarterly. If I am correct, these lists work as follows...

For me, someday-maybe is just stuff I'm not doing now, but might do later. I can look at an item whenever I want to, and an item may become active at any time. One thing someday-maybe is not is a dumping ground for stuff I'm avoiding.

The scheme you describe sounds like a lot of decision-making for me to do for little gain. OmniFocus has a setting for review frequency for individual projects, which may have fed your perception that more people keep the lists you describe than actually do. If I have an action or even a project that I'm not sure I need to do, I may defer it, another feature of OmniFocus. I usually put a question mark on such items to indicate a decision is needed.
 

Ship69

Registered
For me, someday-maybe is just stuff I'm not doing now, but might do later. I can look at an item whenever I want to, and an item may become active at any time.

Hmmm.... when you have a LOT of items in your Someday-Maybe list (I have about 300+), and if you like me tend to read slowly, deciding when to spend time looking at (i.e. reviewing) my Someday-Maybe items becomes a non-trivial issue. And so I want ways to take stuff way so that I don't even have to look at it until a sensible / pre-decided time has elapsed.

That's my reasoning anyhow.

That said I concede that in hing-sight "Complete this week" does seem a bit fussy. And I might conflate "Paused" with "Soon/Later" tasks. It's just that if I am going to run a tight ship with as few "Active/Do ASAP" tasks as possible, then I will need a way to fish stuff out of my sea of SomedayMaybe tasks.
 
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Gardener

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That said I concede that in hing-sight "Complete this week" does seem a bit fussy. And I might conflate "Paused" with "Soon/Later" tasks. It's just that if I am going to run a tight ship with as few "Active/Do ASAP" tasks as possible, then I will need a way to fish stuff out of my sea of SomedayMaybe tasks.

How often do you find that you have finished every single active task for the week? Is this a frequent problem?

If it's not a frequent problem, maybe you could just drop worrying about it--or at least drop worrying about making sure that you make the BEST choice from Someday/Maybe.
 

Longstreet

Professor of microbiology and infectious diseases
Please can you say more about exactly what is/isn't a "deep work block".
Deep work blocks on your calendar comes from the book entitled "Deep Work" by Cal Newport. Deep work blocks are for complex items in your work that challenge and stretch you. It depends on your type of work, but it can be manuscripts, grants, complex math problems, etc.
 

mcogilvie

Registered
That said I concede that in hing-sight "Complete this week" does seem a bit fussy. And I might conflate "Paused" with "Soon/Later" tasks. It's just that if I am going to run a tight ship with as few "Active/Do ASAP" tasks as possible, then I will need a way to fish stuff out of my sea of SomedayMaybe tasks.

I have tried having a someday-maybe list for each area of focus, and it helps. I don't claim it would work for everybody, and I'm not sure i won't try something else at some point. But categorizing by area of focus does give me some sense of balance, and "not this until that's done" sequencing.
 
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