New to System: Project Support Materials vs. Reference (specific around NirvanaHQ)

[SStewart]

Hi All,
TLDR; How do you separate project support from Reference while using Nirvana HQ.? What do you use to store project support vs. Reference, or do you blend the two?

I am relatively new to the system. My wife and I are both implementing at same time, both for work and for home. I recently shifted jobs (I am senior manager of engineering at green fuels company). With the new job there is a ton of new technology and new information.

I am using Nirvana HQ as my main system for keeping lists, and some text based notes (in reference). My main job is supporting the engineering for several large projects, that will have many subproject (to keep manageable within the system). So basically like nearly 95% of my work material which is large is "project suppor" support material.

Any recommendations on keeping the hard edges for difference between reference and project support?
So for those in similar situtations who have implemented successfully, what pitfalls or traps do you see or know about that I may be missing?
How do you separate project support from Reference while using Nirvana HQ.?

Additional Information Below:

My main system is a mix of digital and paper. Some items like design basis documents, drawings etc. are better reviewed in paper form, other items like detailed large schedules are better reviewed digitally.

What are the risks of just having a paper filing system, with each document type getting its own file - with name in file linking the master project, and a Digital file that mirrors that same system? My thoughts are the materials will move in and out of being "project support - as project as defined by GTD vs. Project meaning the thing that is 95% of my job". So just having one system makes sense, and using the notes in nirvana under the subproject to keep things clean on what materials make sense. For example, I have a design basis document. If I have a subproject to have to tune that design basis document up, that could create next actions for myself, for my direct reports, etc. I would simply put a note in Nirvana reminding me when looking at phone or computer with Nirvana that the design basis is in my reference files. I wouldn't try to recreate that document in references in Nirvana (since it can't hold attachments). I also would likely put the Design Basis paper folder on my desk or my little file holder box under the desk for easy grabs. When I am not using it or working on something else I slide it back into my file cabinet.

Last thought, I keep quick hit summary items - example - items like what is the heating capacity of a specific piece of industrial equipment that I need to reference a lot in a general facts and figures Reference File in Nirvana so I have no matter where I am at, airport, car, etc. While I am worried this will be too much to keep up, I think it will allow me to know I either look first in NirvanaApp to see what I have, then either on computer or in file cabinet. It may be a bit of extra friction, but I know with that system I would probably have confidence that I could find what I am looking for when I need it.

 

[bishblaize]

99.9% of my stuff is digital now, so I don't really bother with any distinction between project support and reference materials. I just use links to connect my projects in Omnifocus directly to whatever I need. If it's a file, I keep it in Devonthink alongside all my other reference materials, and link to that. But sometimes the item can't be moved anyway (like a web page, Teams message or something that must be kept on our company server) so linking to it solves that problem. This is particularly great if you have a general reference item that you refer to across several projects, you can just link to it for as many projects as you want without moving it.

When I had more of a mix of paper and digital, it wasn't so neat. Usually, I would have a digital folder and a paper folder both named after the Project, with all the stuff in each. Any paper item that couldn't be moved from its permanent home into the folder, I would either copy it if possible, or simply trust Id remember where it was if not. Then when the project was finished, I'd just manually file all the digital and paper items into their permanent homes (or delete them, as appropriate).

The only real downside to this is the additional admin involved since you have to create and/or gather your materials in the first place, then tidy your stuff away once you've finished, both digitally and physically.

 

[Peter Van Harmelen]

Hi @SStewart. Welcome to GTD and to this forum. I’ve been at this since 2007 and can easily say that GTD changed how I work and live big time.

I also use OmniFocus and link to almost everything. I still distinguish between project support and reference. That being said, I don’t think that task managers are great places to house project support - or reference, for that matter. I would just link to wherever you store your files and notes. You cannot add attachments in Nirvana anyway.

Good luck with GTD!

Peter

 

[mksilk2]

don’t think that task managers are great places to house project support - or reference, for that matter.

Well said. I totally agree. Nirvana is not the place to store reference / support info. In my set up in Nirvana I have the project name and simply put some pointers in the project information field like ‘support docs OneNote’ where relevant. OneNote or any of the many apps are much better suited for storing reference and support material like Peter says.

 

[mcogilvie]

Well said. I totally agree. Nirvana is not the place to store reference / support info. In my set up in Nirvana I have the project name and simply put some pointers in the project information field like ‘support docs OneNote’ where relevant. OneNote or any of the many apps are much better suited for storing reference and support material like Peter says.

I think it depends on the person, their work and the technology they use. For most projects, I don‘t do a lot of planning. A next action or two and a small amount of data is about it. Things 3 works very well for this, and I suppose Nirvana would too. For those projects that do require more, I typically have apps which work well for me. Many work well with Things via Markdown, e.g. MindNode, Omnivore and Bear. For writing manuscripts, the manuscript itself stores both project support and reference. None of this is driven by theory, but by having tools I am comfortable using. I used Evernote for a long time, and I wouldn’t recommend it, OneNote or anything else so massive and proprietary to anyone.

 

[bcmyers2112]

Nirvana is not the place to store reference / support info.

To amplify @mcogilvie's point: when I was still using Nirvana I often stored project support in the notes field of the respective project. A lot of my project support consists of stuff like brief notes, flat lists/checklists, things like that. Nirvana is perfect for those sorts of things.

I didn't use Nirvana for reference but I could see it working for certain people with certain kinds of info. To echo @mcogilvie, it depends on the person and what they need.

I used Evernote for a long time, and I wouldn’t recommend it, OneNote or anything else so massive and proprietary to anyone.

And this is where the YMMV thing comes in. I use Evernote and I like it. I also think OneNote is a good tool. I'd feel quite comfortable recommending them.

Admittedly, Evernote's future is not assured. But neither is its demise. And any company could pull the plug on anything these days. I suppose a non-proprietary format would make the transition to a new tool easier, but by no means painless. If I wanted to play it completely safe these days, I'd have to hide under a rock. Even then, I could suffocate.

I'm not saying @mcogilvie is wrong, BTW. I just have a different point-of-view. Pick whichever one you like. Or neither. But I think the more perspectives people contribute here, the more chances someone can find something to their liking.

Or we could settle this in the GTD Mud Wrestling Pit. But @mcogilvie gets really PO'd every time I bring that up.

 

[René Lie]

Or we could settle this in the GTD Mud Wrestling Pit.

I'm trying to picture this, but luckily, I'm having a hard time...

 

[bcmyers2112]

I'm trying to picture this, but luckily, I'm having a hard time...

Don't worry, you'll get your chance. I have you signed up for a match.

 

[mcogilvie]

I suppose turning away from monolithic beasts like EverNote could be seen as a return to my roots: the creators of Unix preferred small, sharp tools. When I decided to quit EverNote, I was surprised how little I cared about what was in there. It was literally a digital junk drawer. But YMMV.

P.S. I would prefer a good old Death March to mud wrestling.

 

[DKPhoto]

I’m in the Apple ecosystem and use Apple Notes for project support and Eaglefiler for reference & archive material. Eaglefiler is non-proprietary as it uses the Finder structure which you can access outside of EF, although changes won’t get reflected inside EF, but if you’re moving on you can take everything with you very easily.

I store the folder structure in Dropbox to keep it backed up offsite and synced across devices. There is no iOS version of EF so the only way to access files is through the Dropbox app, which isn’t great IMO.

That‘s the reason I use Notes for project support, as it is readily available across all my Apple devices, and project support requires more immediacy.

 

[mksilk2]

I think it depends on the person, their work and the technology they use. For most projects, I don‘t do a lot of planning. A next action or two and a small amount of data is about it. Things 3 works very well for this, and I suppose Nirvana would too. For those projects that do require more, I typically have apps which work well for me. Many work well with Things via Markdown, e.g. MindNode, Omnivore and Bear. For writing manuscripts, the manuscript itself stores both project support and reference. None of this is driven by theory, but by having tools I am comfortable using. I used Evernote for a long time, and I wouldn’t recommend it, OneNote or anything else so massive and proprietary to

didn't use Nirvana for reference but I could see it working for certain people with certain kinds of info. To echo @mcogilvie, it depends on the person and what they need.

I probably made that sound too much like a definitive statement. Nirvana of course can be used to store project support material and or reference material. However in my experience as Nirvana only allows text based notes with very limited formatting I think there are much better tools to store that information. I like to store pictures, links, images, checklists, bulleted list with formatting and tools like Evernote, OneNote etc are wonderful at this. I do think Nirvana excels as a GTD list manager that keeps you in the ‘GTD way’. GTD is so personal and individualistic that making any definitive statement is foolish. I can only make a statement about how I use a tool / system. My apologies.

 

[bcmyers2112]

GTD is so personal and individualistic that making any definitive statement is foolish. I can only make a statement about how I use a tool / system. My apologies.

You weren't being foolish, you expressed a point-of-view. That's encouraged around here. And no apology is necessary because you didn't do anything wrong.

 

[bcmyers2112]

I suppose turning away from monolithic beasts like EverNote could be seen as a return to my roots: the creators of Unix preferred small, sharp tools. When I decided to quit EverNote, I was surprised how little I cared about what was in there. It was literally a digital junk drawer. But YMMV.

I recently rebooted my system and I found that the majority of stuff I had in Evernote I didn't care about, so I know how easy it is to fill up Evernote with cruft. I am much more intentional about what I save these days.

P.S. I would prefer a good old Death March to mud wrestling.

@John Forrister told me "no death" is a rule around here.

 

[RomanS]

On the one hand, I can understand the skepticism towards proprietary systems. On the other hand, Microsoft is not Google, where apps sometimes disappear faster than they came. I recognize that OneNote has been on the market for 20 years and is deeply integrated into the Office ecosystem. Just in the last three years, OneNote has grown tremendously in importance and reach. I use OneNote for support and reference material following the principles of Tiago Fortes "Building a second Brain". OneNote has thus become one of the most important programs for me. I would even say more important than Word.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[Gardener]

I store my Someday/Maybe lists in OmniFocus, with a context that's set to On Hold, so they don't show with my actionable stuff.

I don't really store long reference material. (Aside from links in the above lists, and books on the shelf.) If I did, I'd probably store it in Scrivener. (I do have a Scrivener project for this purpose, but I rarely use it.)

 

[mksilk2]

H

Scrivener

Haven’t come across this one before

 

[mcogilvie]

Haven’t come across this one before

It’s a sophisticated editor/word processor for Macs built for longer writing projects such as novels, scripts, research papers and such, with features for organizing project support materials.

 

[Gardener]

H

Haven’t come across this one before

Yep. (What @mcogilvie said above.) It's not intended for stuff like GTD project support material, but it works just fine for any needs I've ever had along those lines. And I'm in it every single day writing the novel (First draft done! Second draft in progress!) so that's handy.

 

[DKPhoto]

I can understand the skepticism towards proprietary systems. On the other hand, Microsoft is not Google, where apps sometimes disappear faster than they came.

Unfortunately my only experience with MS software was Expression Media, which they bought as iView Media Pro, renamed, did very little with it, flogged it to Phase One who changed its name, and then made it obsolete.

I’m a photographer and the one thing i try and avoid like the plague is proprietary systems and software. Nothing is indispensable, and I’ve had my fingers burnt a few times over the years, hence my cynicism!