Dedicated GTD applications on Windows

[acc.mcpherson]

bcmyers1212 Couldn't have said it better. I too have struggled with trying to categorize things so that it all flowed nicely and was organized and the attraction of finding a system to do that is the main reason I find myself searching for a new tools. This discussion prompted the search for me once again. It wasn't until I stepped back to ask myself why I was searching that I realized it's easy to fall into the trap that a new tool can do it all. TesTeq helped me out on that one!

Well life isn't organized and when you try to put things into a forced hierarchy you are only fooling yourself to think you have things under control. It took me years too to realize that the Vision, Goals and Areas of Focus were more useful for me as a checklist that I need to review monthly, quarterly or sometimes weekly - depending on my level of comfort to feel like nothing was falling through the cracks. For me all I need is to have a project list and next action list that relates to the projects.

 

[basheerpm777]

Hi all,

I have been using IQTell for the past two years. It is web based and also has apps for android and IOS. The company responds quickly to customer needs and help them customize. It is very user friendly. Give it a try here http://iqtell.com?eu=nbL4

 

[bcmyers2112]

BTW, I was wondering when Wunderlist would catch the attention of someone at David Allen Co. I've used it in the past and I think it really is well-suited for GTD. I would certainly recommend it to anyone searching for a good, cloud-based list manager.

 

[bcmyers2112]

TesTeq: Yeah, but on the other hand a lack of "attention" from David Allen Co. didn't stop you from discovering (and apparently loving) Nozbe, nor did it stop me from using Wunderlist for a bit. I can't speak for the company as I'm not a representative, but one of the consistent messages from DA on down has been that GTD is tools agnostic. In my experience, once you've learned the principles you can make any number of tools work.

I'm not sure that Nozbe qualifies as "invisible," BTW. They seem to have a vocal advocate in these forums.

 

[kelstarrising]

It ain't easy to catch the DavidCo attention. You can have thousands of paying customers implementing GTD and still be invisible like Nozbe or Things. :-(

We respond to kitten videos, chocolate, and compliments. Mostly.

Actually, there are a number of factors, including how many customer requests we get for a new Setup Guide. They have development costs to create and maintain, so we choose carefully before taking new ones on. We rarely get requests for Nozbe or Things. The OneNote and Wunderlist users have been writing in regularly and both apps have a ton of buzz within the GTD community, so they moved to the front of the queue for development.

 

[TesTeq]

Actually, there are a number of factors, including how many customer requests we get for a new Setup Guide. They have development costs to create and maintain, so we choose carefully before taking new ones on. We rarely get requests for Nozbe or Things.

Let me discuss this statement a little bit.

If there are applications used by thousands of people (like Nozbe or Things) and DavidCo rarely gets requests for developing GTD implementation guides for them it means that these applications have implemented the GTD workflow in the most straightforward and easy to understand way, and their developers provide good tutorials and a great customer support.

On the other hand, applications created without deep understanding of the GTD methodology confuse users and require additional instructions.

But the side effect of this approach is that only applications less suited for GTD are visible and promoted on the DavidCo website and in the internet shop.

Just saying, YMMV.

 

[AndrewJMason]

We respond to kitten videos, chocolate, and compliments. Mostly.

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGI8Od22WM4

 

[kelstarrising]

Like a boss! Excellent way to start the weekend. Thanks Andrew!

 

[mcogilvie]

Let me discuss this statement a little bit.

If there are applications used by thousands of people (like Nozbe or Things) and DavidCo rarely gets requests for developing GTD implementation guides for them it means that these applications have implemented the GTD workflow in the most straightforward and easy to understand way, and their developers provide good tutorials and a great customer support.

On the other hand, applications created without deep understanding of the GTD methodology confuse users and require additional instructions.

But the side effect of this approach is that only applications less suited for GTD are visible and promoted on the DavidCo website and in the internet shop.

Just saying, YMMV.

Yes, I've thought about this. Cultured code, the developer of Things, has taken a good bit of heat for not treating its users well, for things like an opaque, generally late development process which is slow to add features and for closing down its user forums. Omnifocus is known for very good support, a fairly transparent and rapid development cycle, and robust user forums. However, if I look at app store ratings and number of ratings, it's not clear which app has more users or is better regarded. Both are highly rated, and Apple's own ranking algorithms fluctuate pretty wildly (I suspect Apple is biasing towards new releases and high velocity of reviews- they promote a lot of apps that turn out to be stinkers.) Omnifocus certainly has more overt customizability. There are many more web sites offering to assist (for free or for $'s) others with Omnifocus than there are for Things. Wunderlist is clearly the winner for most popular todo app, but it is free. Searching for "Wunderlist GTD" doesn't generate too much of interest. While Wunderlist is pretty straightforward to use for GTD, it's support is only fair. So I'm inclined to think it's the app, not the support or the user community that matters. Which makes sense, I guess.

 

[TesTeq]

Yes, I've thought about this. Cultured code, the developer of Things (...)

I had to choose:
- to write about excelent Nozbe functionality and support and look like a cheap marketing guy;
or
- to add another example of application that does not exist in the DavidCo shop.

I've decided to add Things and - as I see - it was a mistake.

But my main point is based on the following scenario. Someone reads the GTD book or attends a public seminar. She wants to implement the methodology using her smartphone or computer. So she browses DavidCo website and encounters great implementation guides for various software packages that must be customized for GTD. The only thing she doesn't find is Nozbe which supports GTD without any special guidance.

 

[kelstarrising]

TesTeq--Can you please share your affiliation with Nozbe? Perhaps that would help your fellow forum readers understand why you are so intent in DAC promoting Nozbe. Because everything you've posted here it sure seems like Nozbe users don't need a DAC Setup Guide from us given the excellent educational support Nozbe already provides. So it seems more to me like you you're upset that Nozbe isn't getting the marketing benefit of a DAC Setup Guide.

 

[bcmyers2112]

TesTeq: I have tried numerous "dedicated" GTD apps, including Nozbe. I generally found them to be too confining, forcing me to conform to someone else's workflow and vision of GTD. Others such as yourself swear by the dedicated apps. That leads me to believe that what works best depends on the individual. Fortunately, there are enough options to suit just about everyone.

I haven't found the "non-dedicated" solutions to be too confusing. When I decided to try Wunderlist I was able to set it up in about 10 minutes without any help. Others have created their own Evernote GTD workflows that they report are working well, based on this and other forums. Others have created their own nifty paper solutions. I could go on but I think you get the point. I don't think "dedicated" GTD solutions are inherently better (or worse) across the board; again, it depends on the individual.

Ultimately, I found that none of the solutions I tried were worth a tinker's damn until I focused on improving my GTD habits. Having done that, I've found myself able to more effectively use the tools available to me. Tools are certainly important; you can't saw a two-by-four with a screwdriver, after all. But just as the best hardware in the world won't help a carpenter who has poor skills, no GTD tool will make you good at GTD. On the other hand, being diligent with GTD enables you to get great results from the tools you choose.

 

[TesTeq]

TesTeq--Can you please share your affiliation with Nozbe?

1. Nozbe is the only truly successful Polish company in the personal productivity area. I'm from Poland.
2. I supported Nozbe CEO, Michael Sliwinski by giving him my book "Teraz!".
3. Michael Sliwinski and I appeared together on some photos taken during GTD Summit in 2009.
4. I've published one article in Productive Magazine (Nozbe sponsored) and several articles in Productive Magazine PL (Nozbe sponsored) without any compensation.
5. I have no access to any advanced or inside information about Nozbe.
7. I have no special, or lower cost, or free access to any paid Nozbe services.

I hereby certify that the above statements are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

Perhaps that would help your fellow forum readers understand why you are so intent in DAC promoting Nozbe.

It's not about Nozbe promotion. It's about promotion of applications that require Setup Guides.

Because everything you've posted here it sure seems like Nozbe users don't need a DAC Setup Guide from us given the excellent educational support Nozbe already provides.

Yes. Nozbe doesn't need a DAC Setup Guide so it is less visible here than Microsoft OneNote, Microsoft Outlook, Evernote, Google Apps, iPhone/iPad, OmniFocus, and IBM Lotus Notes. Is it good or bad for GTD users who are looking for the best app? Or irrelevant? I don't know because I don't have any data about the marketing impact of being mentioned on the DAC website. I just look through the lense of comments of 5 to 10 people who are actively engaged in the DAC forum discussions.

So it seems more to me like you you're upset that Nozbe isn't getting the marketing benefit of a DAC Setup Guide.

Yes. I'm upset that applications less suited for GTD are getting the marketing benefit on the DAC Setup Guide and better visibilty on the DAC website. It is a side effect but cannot be ignored.

I accept that this is the DAC marketing policy and will never discuss this issue again here or anywhere. I'm sorry for any inconvenience that my comments may have caused.

And I must admit that DAC Setup Guides are the best software/methodology guides I've ever read in my life.

 

[PTKen]

I was trying to categorise projects under an area of focus. If you've used Trello you'll understand the many reasons why this is hard to do. In fact my current thinking is why do this at all.

Could you elaborate on why you feel this is difficult to do? I do this regularly with Nirvana, I did it with my previous apps that I used as well. It is not only easy, but extremely useful. I'm very interested in what you meant by this statement. Why is it difficult? What benefit did you expect that you did not get by assigning projects to an area of focus?

Thank you.
Ken

 

[kelstarrising]

I accept that this is the DAC marketing policy and will never discuss this issue again here or anywhere. I'm sorry for any inconvenience that my comments may have caused.

Hi TesTeq. You are welcome to continue to discuss whatever you like! I would just ask that you have an open mind about the situation you are upset about, especially if you may not have all of the information.

 

[Oogiem]

It's not about Nozbe promotion. It's about promotion of applications that require Setup Guides.

Yes. Nozbe doesn't need a DAC Setup Guide so it is less visible here than Microsoft OneNote, Microsoft Outlook, Evernote, Google Apps, iPhone/iPad, OmniFocus, and IBM Lotus Notes. ...

Yes. I'm upset that applications less suited for GTD are getting the marketing benefit on the DAC Setup Guide and better visibilty on the DAC website.

I would interpret the idea of set-up guides not that the apps NEED them but that the apps are powerful enough and adaptable enough that there are many different ways to set them up. So a set-up guide with one possible option is useful for people new to the GTD system. I would also argue that an app that doesn't have a set-up guide is almost by definition neither as powerful nor as popular as other apps. What you see as an effect of a "bad app" I see as an affect of a powerful full featured app with many options and also that is very commonly used.

Take Omnifocus, there are many different ways to get it set up to fully implement GTD. I see that as a feature and evidence of a strong powerful application. I have my GTD set=up done very differently from the initial David Co set-up guide because I found that I have fine tuned it for me. But the set-up guide is a good starting point for newbies. Also, with hundreds of GTD apps out there they cannot make set-up guides for each one., only for those that are popular. Has nothing IMO to do with the quality of the app other than popular apps/systems are generally of higher quality (Windows not withstanding ;-) )

 

[PeterW]

Apologies for the slight detour, but does the word 'Nozbe' actually mean something? I always assumed it was the name of the guy who wrote the application but I now know that's wrong. Just curious.

 

[TesTeq]

Apologies for the slight detour, but does the word 'Nozbe' actually mean something? I always assumed it was the name of the guy who wrote the application but I now know that's wrong. Just curious.

Nozbe = Be Naturally OrganiZed

You can read about strange origins of the name here: https://nozbe.com/blog/name/

 

[TesTeq]

I would interpret the idea of set-up guides not that the apps NEED them but that the apps are powerful enough and adaptable enough that there are many different ways to set them up. So a set-up guide with one possible option is useful for people new to the GTD system. I would also argue that an app that doesn't have a set-up guide is almost by definition neither as powerful nor as popular as other apps. What you see as an effect of a "bad app" I see as an affect of a powerful full featured app with many options and also that is very commonly used.

Short example:

1. Is Microsoft Word powerful enough and adaptable enough that there are many different ways to set it up?

2. Shouldn't we ask Kelly to write a Microsoft Word set-up guide for people new to the GTD system?

I think it could be a valuable exercise and a proof that any tool can be used for GTD.

I rest my case, Your Honor. ;-)

 

[Oogiem]

1. Is Microsoft Word powerful enough and adaptable enough that there are many different ways to set it up?

2. Shouldn't we ask Kelly to write a Microsoft Word set-up guide for people new to the GTD system?

I think it could be a valuable exercise and a proof that any tool can be used for GTD.

Answers 1: No, in general in MS word you will have files, no other structure really is available. All other structure would come from the operating system with folders etc. SO no MS Word is not a powerful or adaptable piece of SW in the sense I use the terms.

Answer 2: Sure you could and it might actually be useful but not one that is specific to MS Word, more a general how to set up a GTD system using plain text files. That could be used for MS Word, Open Office, BBEdit and a whole host of plain vanilla text processing apps.