GTD and ADHD: How well does it work?

street805

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I work with many individuals who have ADHDADD and I would love to introduce them to GTD. My fear is that GTD will overwhelm them and if that's the case, I would be better off not even introducing them to it to begin with (it would simply reinforce the sense of failure that many of them already feel). I have searched the forums for ADHD related posts and have found more posts related to implementing a specific feature of GTD whereas I am more interested in information regarding how well GTD and ADHD go together as a whole (i.e. its overwhelming and cumbersome and I couldn't use it; or it has changed my life; or I have adapted it to fit my ADHD way-of-thinking, etc. etc.) I would love to hear in more general or global terms how well GTD and ADHD go together. Thanks!
 

Gardener

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I believe that I have ADHD, but I've never been formally diagnosed.

I don't see how GTD would overwhelm someone with ADHD? As I see it, ADHD means that you're going to have a million thoughts a minute anyway, so something designed to lasso those thoughts, and to offer guidelines about how far a thought should be pursued and when pursuing one beyond a certain point is a waste of time, seems like a good thing. Could you clarify what you mean, a little more?

GTD doesn't rely on a preplanned schedule. It's inherently flexible. It supports task switching by creating a structure for leaving a bookmark in each project. It provides a place to quickly put all those fly-by thoughts, and to pick them up again later. It offers the "next action" concept to allow you to make a little progress on each project. These are all good things for someone with ADHD.
 

street805

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Without writing a whole book on ADHD, I will just say that ADHD is MUCH MUCH more than racing thoughts. People with ADHD have challenges with working memory (they are very forgetful), time management, prioritization, procrastination, organization, impulse control, and many other areas. Individuals with ADHD are frequently driven to task due to urgency which is why they can be chronic procrastinators. The other big challenge with people with ADHD is follow through and that's where I really see GTD becoming a challenge for them because the system is built on the premise that everything is written down and the subsequent workflow that happens. Failure to consistently use the system will make it unreliable and we are back to square one and the person stops using it. Not sure if this is descriptive enough for someone who is not well versed on ADHD to understand, but I do see some significant challenges with GTD and moderate to severe ADHD and I would like to hear from those with the condition who tried it.
 

Gardener

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Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm someone with the condition who has tried it, but perhaps you demand a formal diagnosis. :)

Re the follow through, I suspect that there is no organization system that doesn't demand follow through. Now, it might seem intuitive that someone who has trouble with follow through would do better with a simpler system, but simple isn't interesting, and interesting is essential. GTD is interesting to me, and supports a fair bit of puttering--puttering that may feel like a waste of time, but, again, it's interesting and helps to maintain engagement with the system. Deciding that THAT context should really be split into THOSE two contexts, and those should be combined, and y'know, the whole context list could use revamping and maybe the project list could use reorganizing, too.... Hyperfocusing on one's task management system may not be a productive use of time, but it's better than ignoring it.

I do find myself wondering if the GTD model works better for the way that programmers form mental models, though. I remember reading, though I can't find the source, that there are two major ways that people form mental models. For lack of names, I'll just call them A and B. Type B people are the minority in the general population, but the vast majority of computer programmers are type B. I strongly suspect that the GTD model, with projects and contexts as two different ways to "cut" data, may work for programmer types. I suspect that plenty of programmers are ADHD--hyperfocus is useful, one might even say essential, for programming--but I wonder if people who are both ADHD and type A might find GTD unusable.

I do find that the two-minute rule is doom; I absolutely cannot use it. Shifting away from processing my lists means that I will likely not shift back.

And I need to maintain a ruthlessly pared-down list of active projects. A million projects in Someday/Maybe or support material or Thoughts lists is just fine, but the active projects and actions must be as minimalist as possible. I have a very low tolerance for long lists.

On the other hand, the "cranking widgets" model, writing a very small completely understandable action, doing it, and checking it off, is oddly rewarding. GTD just has you create a sort of "bookmark" Next Action when you stop working on a project, but when I'm having trouble focusing I will often keep writing, working, and checking off actions, even though there's no functional value in doing so.
 

Folke

Registered
I honestly have no idea whether a condition like ADHD has any impact on the choice of method. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But it does seem that many other people struggle with similar questions.

Broadly speaking it seems to me that there are three major options:
  • the "natural" approach (the majority approach, no doubt): avoid lists and calendars, except where necessary. Use improvised devices, such as post-its on the fridge, knots around your finger, or placing objects "strategically" (by the door etc) etc. if you really need to. If that is not enough, use shopping lists, an appointment calendar, and todo lists for particular projects (like vacation). But only to the extent absolutely necessary.
  • the "mainstream organized" approach, usually modeled on project management: use lists, calendars, project plans and diagrams extensively to get everything out of your head, organize it clearly by objective (project, person etc) and have an exact time schedule for it all, that allows you to follow up how you proceed relative to plan. Consider time deviations as warning signals. (This is the model we all need to face or use when we work in collaborative environments.)
  • the GTD approach: a balanced compromise of the two previous approaches: record everything that steals your attention (but no more), organize it well enough for your own uses (contexts and projects are the most fundamental parts, but avoid overdoing it), and avoid getting bogged down in dates (only "hard dates are strictly necessary). Use an intuitive method to choose what to do in each moment.

Now, whether an individual has ADHD or not, I also think, as Gardener suggests, that people have different personalities and preferences - and stress levels, anxieties etc - and I also suspect that since people lead different lives there are also differences in the sheer number of interactions and responsibilities that people have and that this has an influence on which of these methods would tend to be the best choice.

I believe the vast majority simply do not have the "volume" of worries or projects to make it worthwhile to get started with any form of "organized" approach (whether it be project management style or GTD style). For some people, deeply familiar with working in an organized environment and using project plans, time plans etc at work, the "mainstream organized" approach would be a natural starting point - but GTD could be used to soften it up quite a bit - any hard dates from the shared project plan would go into your GTD, but the rest and the details you can manage in a date-free GTD-style manner if you like. A GTD-style approach throughout is the best for quite many.

Personally I instinctively "hate" the project management style approach (with dates and time plans etc) - except for collaborative purposes, of course. On the other hand, a totally "natural" approach (without lists or anything) is not viable for me either, because of the sheer "volume" I have. So a GTD-style approach is best for me overall. Leaving unnecessary dates out, keeping it as open as possible what I will do at what time, but keep it neatly enough organized so that I can trust my system and find what I need when I need it, are the main criteria for me.
 

jrose1982

Registered
I'm also not diagnosed, but have all the symptoms. I think you are right to be concerned about the follow-through. That's where my first attempt at implementing a GTD system failed. But for the short period that I stuck with it, I felt a significant sense of calm; strong enough to make me try again.

It provides an answer to my forgetfulness (if something is written down where I'll see it when I need to, then I don't have to remember it). It doesn't help with prioritization; I need to supplement other systems to help with that.

It kinda helps with procrastination, but not completely. I use contexts that reflect my different type of energy. I have a context list for tasks that will take hours to complete and I can lose myself in them (I like those tasks); a separate list for the short tasks that I should be able to bang out quickly, but only if I have the right kind of energy to tackle them; another list for making phone calls (I hate making phone calls more than anything). But what this really means is that the tasks I tend to procrastinate can only be put off as long as I have some fun tasks to work on. Not a complete solution, by any means, but it's better than nothing.

The thing about follow-through, is that I don't think there is a system to help with that. You just have to fall down and get back up. The more you fall, the more practice you have with getting back up.

I think it also depends largely on the personality of the user. I've heard it's quite common for folks with ADHD to have something - a specific subject or type of task - that they can are able to focus on and kind of lose themselves to. For me, it's building stuff. So after going through all my "stuff" and putting it back where it goes, I get to play with my new system like I would a computer program. Put in "dummy" tasks and track them through the process to find the bugs. This reward will help to motivate me to try again the next time I fail.
 

bcmyers2112

Registered
I have been diagnosed with ADHD and can related to a lot of what you are describing, street805. My experience with GTD has been somewhat of a struggle. It took me years to get my arms around it. For awhile it was more hindrance than help but I am starting to get the hang of it and experience some benefits.

On the one hand, I do find it helpful to define outcomes and actions. I also find it helpful to park them in lists rather than rely on my memory, which as you pointed out is a struggle for ADHDers. I also like zeroing out my inboxes regularly. All of these things help me to eliminate distractions.

On the other hand, I find myself often overestimating how much I can do (as I understand it, that's another classic ADHD symptom) and therefore my GTD lists often get overwhelming to the point that I avoid them. I am right now working on purging some of those lists by moving some active items to Someday/Maybe.

I have no expertise working with others with ADHD, but can only speak to my own experience. If I had it to do over again I'd have started gradually rather than diving in all at once. While the idea behind GTD is to get everything out of your head and into a trusted system, for me (and I would guess others with ADHD) that can be fraught with peril. In my case I think I would have been better off easing into it.

I don't know if any of that helps, but that's been my experience.

I believe the David Allen Company offers coaching assistance for helping those with ADHD to implement the system. Although I have never utilized this service and therefore I can't vouch for it.
 

greeno

Registered
I've been doing GTD since about 2003 and was diagnosed with ADHD in 2012. I say only give my experience but using the workflow for so many years before obtaining my diagnosis, really opened my eyes when I was diagnosed.

I always thought that other peoples brains worked in the same way that mine did. I couldn't keep track of things and was hideously out of control. GTD gave me the framework and control I needed to be able to corral my impulses and focus them in the right direction.

It was only once my son was diagnosed with autism and ADHD that I had enough exposure to things to know that maybe I should get tested too. Now that I have, I remain unmedicated but much more conscience about the modes I'm in. I know when I'm going into crazy maker and can either let it go or bring it back under control.

There's no way I could have become who I am today (including my GTD trainer certification) without having both ADHD and GTD.
 

GTDgeekette

Registered
I'm also not diagnosed, but have all the symptoms. I think you are right to be concerned about the follow-through. That's where my first attempt at implementing a GTD system failed. But for the short period that I stuck with it, I felt a significant sense of calm; strong enough to make me try again.

It provides an answer to my forgetfulness (if something is written down where I'll see it when I need to, then I don't have to remember it). It doesn't help with prioritization; I need to supplement other systems to help with that.

It kinda helps with procrastination, but not completely. I use contexts that reflect my different type of energy. I have a context list for tasks that will take hours to complete and I can lose myself in them (I like those tasks); a separate list for the short tasks that I should be able to bang out quickly, but only if I have the right kind of energy to tackle them; another list for making phone calls (I hate making phone calls more than anything). But what this really means is that the tasks I tend to procrastinate can only be put off as long as I have some fun tasks to work on. Not a complete solution, by any means, but it's better than nothing.

The thing about follow-through, is that I don't think there is a system to help with that. You just have to fall down and get back up. The more you fall, the more practice you have with getting back up.

I think it also depends largely on the personality of the user. I've heard it's quite common for folks with ADHD to have something - a specific subject or type of task - that they can are able to focus on and kind of lose themselves to. For me, it's building stuff. So after going through all my "stuff" and putting it back where it goes, I get to play with my new system like I would a computer program. Put in "dummy" tasks and track them through the process to find the bugs. This reward will help to motivate me to try again the next time I fail.
What system do you supplement with to help with prioritization?
 

Wilson Ng

Registered
I think GTD can give some much needed structure to a chaotic mind. There's a method to capture any loose threads that crosses the brain. Then it provides a way to organize those captured inbox items. It's also necessary to learn habits such as reviewing and curating all that accumulated stuff instead of letting it sit in our lists. Not every thought ages well after sitting in our task manager for a long time. Using the daily and weekly reviews allows us to plan our day and week so that we don't end up with trying to wing it through life and just go with whatever feels nice to do while ignoring the important stuff.If I had a choice, I'd be kicking back with YouTube videos and Netflix binge watching until I realize that I have a report due by 5 pm today. GTD re-orients my day to make sure that s**t gets done and I don't get an eye roll from the bos and possibly much more dire consequences.
 

dtj

Registered
I'd imagine that this falls into the "it can't hurt to try" category and it might be helpful in taming some of the many issues related to ADHD.

I suspect that I am more of an acquired ADD sort of guy, having been a flagrantly multitasking computer geek for a very long time. Now my memory and attention is having a harder time keeping up, GTD helps me keep the wheels on the wagon.
 

schmeggahead

Registered
I think GTD can give some much needed structure to a chaotic mind. There's a method to capture any loose threads that crosses the brain. Then it provides a way to organize those captured inbox items. It's also necessary to learn habits such as reviewing and curating all that accumulated stuff instead of letting it sit in our lists. Not every thought ages well after sitting in our task manager for a long time. Using the daily and weekly reviews allows us to plan our day and week so that we don't end up with trying to wing it through life and just go with whatever feels nice to do while ignoring the important stuff.If I had a choice, I'd be kicking back with YouTube videos and Netflix binge watching until I realize that I have a report due by 5 pm today. GTD re-orients my day to make sure that s**t gets done and I don't get an eye roll from the bos and possibly much more dire consequences.
One adjunct tool I find extremely helpful with my ADHD is for moderately long paragraphs like above. By the time I get to the second sentence with all that text to go, my mind drifts.

The tool: option+esc which reads whatever is selected on the screen on the Mac.

I'm enjoying so much more on these forums and in other areas to let it be read to me. I can stay focused much more easily for the entire paragraph.

@Wilson Ng, there is nothing wrong with your writing style. It's my response to that style which has held me back from being able to benefit. Tools help for a variety of reasons. Hearing your paragraph, it really should be one paragraph.

Clayton.

Just because you yell it, doesn't make it true. - A guest on a "news" program to Jeanne Pirro.
 

Wilson Ng

Registered
Thanks. My post was my off-the-cuff stream-of-thought with no care in the world to edit it into something more coherent. I didn't take the time to edit it because I'm not turning it in for a grade.
 
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gtdstudente

Registered
I work with many individuals who have ADHDADD and I would love to introduce them to GTD. My fear is that GTD will overwhelm them and if that's the case, I would be better off not even introducing them to it to begin with (it would simply reinforce the sense of failure that many of them already feel). I have searched the forums for ADHD related posts and have found more posts related to implementing a specific feature of GTD whereas I am more interested in information regarding how well GTD and ADHD go together as a whole (i.e. its overwhelming and cumbersome and I couldn't use it; or it has changed my life; or I have adapted it to fit my ADHD way-of-thinking, etc. etc.) I would love to hear in more general or global terms how well GTD and ADHD go together. Thanks!
One of the ways I encourage GTD . . . an enjoyable/calming way to keep life/stuff in order
 
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Murray

Registered
My son and daughter both have ADHD, they are 8 year old fraternal twins. Yesterday I took my son Sam to an appointment with his occupational therapist.

I had already been reading this thread about ADHD so I found it a fun coincidence that the OT told me she had suggested to Sam that he could use a simple system to track tasks so he is not overwhelmed by trying to remember them.

She showed me a little whiteboard she had used with him. It was divided into three columns. The first column was titled "tasks". Then once you start working on a task you move it over to the middle column "doing", and finally to the third column "done".

It has provided a great starting point for a conversation with Sam and the rest of the family about why I use my lists and how there are different ways to track tasks.
 

dtj

Registered
She showed me a little whiteboard she had used with him. It was divided into three columns. The first column was titled "tasks". Then once you start working on a task you move it over to the middle column "doing", and finally to the third column "done".

Cool that the OT is teaching Kanban tech. With the current popularity of Kanban, there is LOTS of support in lots of different software.
 

benedikt

Registered
I work with many individuals who have ADHDADD and I would love to introduce them to GTD. My fear is that GTD will overwhelm them and if that's the case, I would be better off not even introducing them to it to begin with (it would simply reinforce the sense of failure that many of them already feel). I have searched the forums for ADHD related posts and have found more posts related to implementing a specific feature of GTD whereas I am more interested in information regarding how well GTD and ADHD go together as a whole (i.e. its overwhelming and cumbersome and I couldn't use it; or it has changed my life; or I have adapted it to fit my ADHD way-of-thinking, etc. etc.) I would love to hear in more general or global terms how well GTD and ADHD go together. Thanks!

Since being diagnosed with ADD in childhood, I developed many mitigation tactics. In my adulthood, with growing responsibilities, I needed a more sophisticated system. After trying out all kinds of approaches, I ended up with GTD. The best with it:
  • Switching contexts happens quickly with ADD; GTD enables me to make use of this chaotic attitude in a positive way
  • Training my discipline – the Weekly Review is tough for someone with ADD since it requires long sessions of concentrated work. But once you reap the benefits, this kept me going.
  • My brain races, and being able to dump things into an inbox at any point in time (Apple Watch to Shower Notepad) feels very relieving. Remember that an ADD brain's benefit is that it can generate lots of great ideas!
  • Energy levels in overstimulated brains drop more quickly than in other people. This is something that I struggle with a lot. GTD enabled me even to keep a level of productivity during these slumps. In the worst scenarios, inboxes fill up for several days, and I proceed when I am ready again.
All the above requires a lot of self-reflection or guided coaching. Hope this helps.
 

schmeggahead

Registered
In the worst scenarios, inboxes fill up for several days
There is a lot in your post that resonates with my experiences. Every person experiences ADD differently, but there are common aspects we can share how we handle.

My short decision/executive function time can occur frequently. When inboxes pile up, I give myself permission to cherry pick from it (can be like triage, but usually just taking on low hanging fruit - the easy stuff).

One other technique I use for this is to only process and not organize into my system immediately. Doing the organize on a stack of already clarified items helps me with an accomplishment boost.

My brain races, and being able to dump things into an inbox
When I first started doing this, I processed the whole list going through clarify & organize on things that went into someday / maybe (they don't really need next actions or even fully clarified outcomes, just enough to make it into someday / maybe) and also put too many on my projects list when they should really be backlog on an already over allocated larger outcome.

Now with such a brain racing capture, I will pick one or two items to process and then incubate the whole list, usually for a few days before I handle it. It sometimes gets tossed outright because the few items on it came up again and were put in my system.

Remembering advantages
I really liked that you included advantages and where you make use of these advantages.
Thanks,

Clayton.

In the mid-21st century, a writer on one of the planets in the Alnitak system wrote a novel with the central theme of "Let Me Help," asserting those three words were even more important than "I love you." - Shatner to Collins, City on the Edge of Forever.
 

MCOtto

GTD|Connect
I am in the maybe ADHD not diagnosed camp.

GTD has made the most sense of any method I have tried. I wanted to encourage my son to try GTD with GTD for Teenagers. I found that book/workbook easier to get into and finish than the adult Getting Things Done even after reading the whole thing. My struggles have been that once I start to clarify and see what I need to do and I deep-dive into work. (This is where the anti-two-minute rule is important, don't do it if it takes longer than two minutes.) The point of GTD is to separate defining my work from following that game plan for the rest of the week with needed tweaks. The problems are the same with the weekly review, I can barely get to it, and diving into all the details takes so long and so much effort that I rarely finish. (I may need the timed weekly review to get it done in under a week. :))

Still, getting into the habit of processing my meeting and other notes within 24 hours, extracting my next actions, and defining what my projects' done states have changed me from a procrastinator, focused on the deadline and only able to get done something at the last minute, to a gardener trying to get the weeds as they come up and doing things in season to as efficient as I can. I do get swamped with getting all I want to get done at the level I want (crazy maker), but I can come up for air more often with GTD.
 

benedikt

Registered
The problems are the same with the weekly review, I can barely get to it, and diving into all the details takes so long and so much effort that I rarely finish. (I may need the timed weekly review to get it done in under a week. :))

For the Review, I block two hours each Friday during my working hours. This works well for me personally, since I classify it as a "project management" task for my regular work.
 
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