What's the max time for a "Next Action"

D

densteed

GTD|Connect
Say I've decided I want to read Tolstoy's War and Peace.

I captured "Read War and Peace" in my inbox, and now it's time to Clarify.

Read something - that definitely sounds like an action to me, but it's a big book - 1500+ pages and a reading time of about 40 hours. Definitely not less than two minutes, so I'm not going to read it now.

That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.

But wait - what if I read a chapter a night? Stuff happens, so I'll probably only be able to read 5 nights a week, and that puts it at over a year - that mean's I can't make it a project!

Do I make reading War and Peace an Area of Responsibility? Seems kind of silly. I'm overwhelmed, so I think I'll put it in Someday/Maybe.

Thoughts?
 
densteed said:
Say I've decided I want to read Tolstoy's War and Peace.

I captured "Read War and Peace" in my inbox, and now it's time to Clarify.

Read something - that definitely sounds like an action to me, but it's a big book - 1500+ pages and a reading time of about 40 hours. Definitely not less than two minutes, so I'm not going to read it now.

That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.

But wait - what if I read a chapter a night? Stuff happens, so I'll probably only be able to read 5 nights a week, and that puts it at over a year - that mean's I can't make it a project!

Do I make reading War and Peace an Area of Responsibility? Seems kind of silly. I'm overwhelmed, so I think I'll put it in Someday/Maybe.

Thoughts?
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A next action doesn't mean it has to be done in two minutes. The two minute rule says if an item can be done in two minutes, do it now. I would put "read entire book of war and peace" as a project. That seems to leave no wiggle room and tells you what done looks like. And my next action would be (if I already had the book) read a chapter of war and peace as an all day event on my calendar. Until I was done. That is how I'm learning Spanish. And I would Make sure I kept those appointments with myself. The "stuff happens" will keep you from doing it. You can always revisit your commitments during your weekly review. You may in two days decide on 2 chapters or I'll read an hour a day.
 
densteed said:
Say I've decided I want to read Tolstoy's War and Peace.

I captured "Read War and Peace" in my inbox, and now it's time to Clarify.

Read something - that definitely sounds like an action to me, but it's a big book - 1500+ pages and a reading time of about 40 hours. Definitely not less than two minutes, so I'm not going to read it now.

That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.

But wait - what if I read a chapter a night? Stuff happens, so I'll probably only be able to read 5 nights a week, and that puts it at over a year - that mean's I can't make it a project!

Do I make reading War and Peace an Area of Responsibility? Seems kind of silly. I'm overwhelmed, so I think I'll put it in Someday/Maybe.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I will take you at your word that your example is representative of the dilemma you feel you face, and not a contrived or simplified example. You think you want to read a long, famous book. Are you going to finish it? Who knows? I pick up books all the time and never finish them. Same with news articles, professional reading, et cetera. I start TV series and movies and don’t finish them either. Am I a bad person? A bad GTD’er? I don’t think so. If you finish War and Peace, will you finish it in the time frame you assumed before beginning the book? Probably not. Maybe earlier, but likely later. It only matters if your world lit professor is going to test you on it. Every month, I have a next action to buy the next book for my book club, with a deadline of the next meeting of my book club. I buy the book, change the title of the next action to “Read book, Chapter X of Y”. When I move from chapter X to chapter X+1, I change the action. When I finish Chapter Y, I have read the book. This helps me track how I’m doing. As for the 1-year limit on projects, it’s something David Allen starting telling people to keep them from calling a 10-year plan a project. (Weekly Review of Project to colonize nearest star: status- rocket still on course for Proxima Centauri, same as last 100 years.) GTD offers a set of excellent tools for getting things done, but it does not do all the thinking for you, and the GTD police are not going to throw you in jail for unauthorized customization and adaptation, or failure to complete a project. Start War and Peace, see if you like it. Then make it a project if you feel like it.
 
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What about a repeated calendar item? Then your items says "Read 1 chapter of War and Peace" and it repeats tomorrow. I suppose if you had a tickler file you would read the chapter and move the item to the next folder.

Doing it this way means that the task is not a un-doable as "Read whole book"
 
The important quality of a next action is that can propel you into action, picking up a project from where you left off.

For a novel, it is a bookmark in the book.

For the general case of a project that will take several sittings of the same work, I leave the action on my list, not crossing it off. Put another way, if I finish the action and the next one would be worded exactly the same, I just leave it on my list. Eventually, the project will be done or it will require a different sort of action. That is when I cross it off.
 
densteed said:
Say I've decided I want to read Tolstoy's War and Peace.

I captured "Read War and Peace" in my inbox, and now it's time to Clarify.

Read something - that definitely sounds like an action to me, but it's a big book - 1500+ pages and a reading time of about 40 hours. Definitely not less than two minutes, so I'm not going to read it now.

That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.

But wait - what if I read a chapter a night? Stuff happens, so I'll probably only be able to read 5 nights a week, and that puts it at over a year - that mean's I can't make it a project!

Do I make reading War and Peace an Area of Responsibility? Seems kind of silly. I'm overwhelmed, so I think I'll put it in Someday/Maybe.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
@densteed

Thank you very much for your GTD post

In Getting Things Done for Teens, Part 2, Step 2: Clarify, pages 94 - 95 describes Next Action . . . see Index for more on Next Action references

Fundamentally, on this end, "Can a "Next action" take 40 hours?" . . . yes, since it is possible to focus on something from start to completion for 40 hours . . . even is there are inevitable interruptions beyond one's control . . . for instance, when a sleep 'interruption' is over, one then resumes their started Next Action for/to its completion

Perhaps a Next Action could also be described as a 'started for completion commitment' once started ?

As an aside, 'discipline' on the end is defined as 'Completion Fulfillment'

Thank you very much

As you see GTD fit. . . .
 
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densteed said:
Say I've decided I want to read Tolstoy's War and Peace.

I captured "Read War and Peace" in my inbox, and now it's time to Clarify.

Read something - that definitely sounds like an action to me, but it's a big book - 1500+ pages and a reading time of about 40 hours. Definitely not less than two minutes, so I'm not going to read it now.

That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.

But wait - what if I read a chapter a night? Stuff happens, so I'll probably only be able to read 5 nights a week, and that puts it at over a year - that mean's I can't make it a project!

Do I make reading War and Peace an Area of Responsibility? Seems kind of silly. I'm overwhelmed, so I think I'll put it in Someday/Maybe.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
First of all, the heading of your post isn't the problem you are trying to solve. You have set yourself a goal of reading War and Peace. The answer is there in my last sentence - it’s a goal - so it should be handled as a Project within GTD and not a Next Action. Don't put it in Someday/Maybe if you are committed to doing it.

Within that Project you need to come up with some Next Actions to move that Project forward.

What format do you want the novel in so that it’s easy to read? Do you want a hard copy or paperback version? Also, think about annotated versions that will explain the background. Or would you prefer a copy to read on your devices?

When and where are you going to read? I usually have a book by my bedside so I can read before I doze off. If you travel a lot you need a portable version. Maybe keep a copy in your briefcase.

From time to time, review your progress with your reading and consider changing your routine and maybe the medium you are using.
 
For the title of the thread: Yes, there's always a limit to how long a next action can be. It cannot not be any longer than it takes to complete the next physical, visible step to move forward on the project. Yes, it's somewhat vague, however, it is the best definition we can arrive at from a theoretical standpoint.

However, when we apply it to the real world the answer is sublimely obvious: 24 hours less the number of hours you sleep on average per night and less the average number of hours you spend eating, doing hygiene, working, supporting a family, etc. per day.

Put more simply: 24h - avg. sleep hours - avg. hours spent maintaining basic survival.

Usually, that's around 8 hours per day for most people.

For the content of the thread: As others mentioned, reading a literature novel is a project. There's more than a single next action to complete it as it will take more than a single session to do so. How you define the next action is up to you.

What is the next physical, visible action you need to take to move the project forward?

Some next actions for example/inspiration:

Read "War and Peace" for 30 mins every night (i.e. a repeating daily task)
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Read chapter N - M of "War and Peace"
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Read N pages of "War and Peace" this weekend (i.e. a repeating weekly task)
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How you decide to do a project is entirely up to you. Use whatever makes the most sense for you. You may find that you don't even need to put it on your projects list or have next actions for it.

Instead you put it on a stand alone list of "Books To Read" that you look at only when you want to read something or finish a book.

Perhaps, you put the book on the coffee table in the living room so that you see it (as a reminder when you sit down) to read it instead of watching TV. Maybe you buy the audio book version (if there is one) and play it in the car when you drive or when you are doing exercise.

All are good options that exist beyond a GTD System and are still highly effective (much like putting your briefcase by the door so you don't forget it in the morning).
 
@Matt_M

Thank you for your very good post

In particular:

in addition to time and completion

". . . there's always a limit to how long a next action can be."

in regards to time

". . . when we apply it to the real world the an answer is sublimely obvious: 24 hours less the number of hours you sleep on average per night and less the average number of hours you spend eating, doing hygiene, working, supporting a family, etc. per day."

Regarding the above

Where in the abundant GTD literature, etc. could one objectively substantiate your very well considered post for your fellow GTDers' objective assent ?

Also, if you so GTD please: while all can perhaps agree that one "cannot do a project", is it possible for a project to be a next action ?

Somewhat likewise, also if you so GTD please: given GTD's spectrum regarding projects and next actions, in GTD rigor and with all due respect and as a seemingly irreducible GTD example; are all new active captures 'actually' less than two-minute projects . . . since each new active capture is, in actuality, multiple next actions --- albeit most likely in unbroken next actions sequence --- and if otherwise, how so ?

Thank you very much

As you see GTD fit. . . .

Ps. Agreed: "How you decide to do a project is entirely up to you. Use whatever makes the most sense for you. You may find that you don't even need to put it on your projects list or have next actions for it."
 
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All the replies are appreciated.

The situation is indeed contrived. When I swept my mind for long duration next actions, "War and Peace" popped up. For me, W&P belongs on a "Someday Maybe" book list.

I now know more about how I may clarify when/if I move it off "Someday Maybe".

Opinions differ, and no one has cited an edict from David Allen (yet). The answer may be that there is no maximum duration for a next action, though sometimes, making it into a project is the better choice.
  1. Some next actions do not have to be completed in one sitting. These long duration next actions can be paused and resumed. The action is eventually complete and crossed off the list.
  2. Long duration next actions may benefit from being made into a project. An example is when the outcome involves a deadline.
Examples:

If I'm reading W&P purely for enjoyment, I'll take the bookmark suggestion and leave "Read War and Peace" on the next action list until "the end". I can decide to pick up the book whenever the context allows. If I have W&P as an audiobook, I may "read" in the "car context" while commuting or traveling.

If I'm reading W&P because my book club picked it as next month's book, it should be a project. Otherwise, I will have 1300 pages to read the night before we meet.
 
cfoley said:
I think it is important that next actions can be paused and resumed. Otherwise an interruption is a catastrophy.
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@cfoley The problem with this approach is that you have to remember where you paused. So you need a bookmark. On the other hand we often say that Next Actions are Project's bookmarks. I prefer the "one sitting" definition of Next Actions to avoid a hierarchy of bookmarks.
 
I am the type of person who starts books and keep many in progress.
I created a next action list called Reading in Progress in my list manager. These usually contain a link to an Obsidian MOC entry about the book, so I have a collection place for knowledge gleaned from that book.
When I finish the book, I mark the finish date in the list, mark it complete and carry the finish date over to the Obsidian entry for that book.
This list is more a reminder of those books I have in progress and a handy way to create reference related material about them.

I also do this for audio books, ebooks, etc. where I want to collect information about them.

When I receive a reading recommendation, I make an entry with the book in my Someday Maybe list (I use the tag #℠Reading to be able to generate or connect to this list). I put the person referring and the date they made the recommendation.

I think my Reading in Progress list functions more as a project list for reading.

Hope this helps,
Clayton

Confidence is not "I know what I'm doing."
Confidence is "I know how to find that out" and "I know how to learn new things" and most importantly "I know when I don't know what I'm doing, so I stop and find someone who does"
 
TesTeq said:
@cfoley The problem with this approach is that you have to remember where you paused. So you need a bookmark. On the other hand we often say that Next Actions are Project's bookmarks. I prefer the "one sitting" definition of Next Actions to avoid a hierarchy of bookmarks.
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@TesTeq and @cfoley

Permission to interject

Agree with "one sitting", however, while less than ideal, sometimes life can get pesky and therefore, sometimes, something is better than nothing ?

Thank you sir
 
TesTeq said:
@cfoley The problem with this approach is that you have to remember where you paused. So you need a bookmark. On the other hand we often say that Next Actions are Project's bookmarks. I prefer the "one sitting" definition of Next Actions to avoid a hierarchy of bookmarks.
Click to expand...
So what do you do when someone interrupts you when you are working?
 
densteed said:
That's a whole work week! Can a "Next action" take 40 hours? I definitely won't do it in one sitting.

Should I open a "War and Peace" project? There are 361 chapters. Maybe I can make each chapter a step, then I'll have a 361-step project.
Click to expand...
I have next actions that can take years to complete. In that specific case I'd say it's a project but my criteria for completion of a piece would be "spend X minutes/hours reading War and Peace" It might taker me ac couple of months or a couple of years but it's till the next action.
 
cfoley said:
So what do you do when someone interrupts you when you are working?
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@cfoley I pause the current Next Action and deal with the interruption and… return to the interrupted Next Action as soon as possible. It is an accident in my workflow, not the standard way of engaging with Next Actions. So I have only one Next Action paused during the interruption, not the whole inventory of paused Next Actions in my GTD system.
 
schmeggahead said:
I am the type of person who starts books and keep many in progress.
I created a next action list called Reading in Progress in my list manager. These usually contain a link to an Obsidian MOC entry about the book, so I have a collection place for knowledge gleaned from that book.
When I finish the book, I mark the finish date in the list, mark it complete and carry the finish date over to the Obsidian entry for that book.
This list is more a reminder of those books I have in progress and a handy way to create reference related material about them.

I also do this for audio books, ebooks, etc. where I want to collect information about them.

When I receive a reading recommendation, I make an entry with the book in my Someday Maybe list (I use the tag #℠Reading to be able to generate or connect to this list). I put the person referring and the date they made the recommendation.

I think my Reading in Progress list functions more as a project list for reading.

Hope this helps,
Clayton

Confidence is not "I know what I'm doing."
Confidence is "I know how to find that out" and "I know how to learn new things" and most importantly "I know when I don't know what I'm doing, so I stop and find someone who does"
Click to expand...
Hi schmeggahead!

Can you please tell me how can we effectively organize and track my progress with books, audiobooks, and recommendations while collecting valuable insights from them?

Thank You,
MikeTaku.
 
Oogiem said:
I have next actions that can take years to complete. In that specific case I'd say it's a project but my criteria for completion of a piece would be "spend X minutes/hours reading War and Peace" It might taker me ac couple of months or a couple of years but it's till the next action.
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Hello @Oogiem , I have a question re: the example you gave for reading War and Peace. If you were to create a next action that says "spend X minutes/hours reading War and Peace" would you check it off of your next actions list and then create a new next action titled the same way, or would you keep deferring the action until the whole project was complete? I know that you've incorporated OmniFocus into your GTD management system, so I was very interested in how you might answer this question. Thanks!

p.s. Let me know if I need to clarify my question better!
 
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