Confused about Projects next actions

Hello everyone! Forgive me if this is recurring question but I'm new to this forum & I couldn't seem to find it.

When setting up a project, lets say "launch mma training site". It has a lot of "sub-projects" which I keep under that particular project support.
I don't like to keep it under my general projects list because its confusing for me.

1. How many actions should I write out? ( I realize they're actions I can do now and not dependent on others)
2. The project itself has a due date, but the individual actions don't. Because of the complexity of the project, how can I track which actions to do, and what to add next once its done? Its confusing when mixed in with all my other actions too!
 
Hey there, rios! Good, good questions and for as many times as it comes up, having to answer these again for ourselves helps us in our practice, too.

First of all, very, very cool that you're doing an mma site! Please post links once it's up so we can check it out!

Secondly, the answer to both of your questions, for me, is found in the weekly review. I know I'm going to be looking at my actions at least once a week in my review so I can re-evaluate what was accomplished, what now has priority (which may not have had priority the week before), and what needs to be accomplished in the following days.

And feel free to create a separate list or lists for sub-projects. The GTD system has best practices but you'll know how best to structure it for you the more you use it. Don't hesitate, either, to try something for a few weeks or months then try something else. As our lives and businesses change, GTD can change with them.

Hope that helps!

Dena
 
If your main project has a deadline it is important to find out if you have a critical path, if there is enough time and resources to finish the project in time etc.
I have been working as a profesional project manager for 15 years and have a PMP certification since 10 years. As much as I completely love GTD it is not to be used to handle and plan complex projects, even if some ideas is useful. They are a different kind of beast.
GTD could very well be used in the project but not recommended for overall planning.

Sent from my Sputnik, totally lost in space 😱
 
Rios, are you talking about a project or a project ? ;-)

A "project" in the GTD sense can be any task with more than one step in it, and you simply put all the possible actions on your list (as jenkins said) or you can even prioritize a bit by not putting some of the actions on the list just yet (as artsinaction said). Many of the things we tend to do in our lives are this type of loose "project". You often do not depend on a whole lot of fixed dates or deadlines; most of the stuff is on a "the sooner the better" basis. And if you lose control over it, you can always catch up during the weekly review (but personally I usually don't want to wait that long; I usually review my projects more often if they are moving quickly.)

In a more "industrial" sense you may have projects that require a very tight, crammed time schedule, with agreements among many participants, exact time and resource plans etc (as Chrille points out). Regular project management practices are usually better for those kinds of undertakings.

So, what kind of project is this mma site? is it a regular GTD/asap thing that you will do more or less all by yourself? Is its deadline externally contracted etc or is even the final deadline just a subjective wish on your part that you could alter without asking anyone? Go for a GTD approach. This is normally easier.

Or do you have subcontractors or others that you need to book up in advance to do certain things in time and in the right order? In that case, plan at least the outline of the project in the "industrial" way, with exact dates etc for the other contractors and deadlines for the things that you yourself need to prepare for them in advance. You can still use a regular ("unscheduled") GTD approach for the various little actions within each of these "preparation subprojects".
 
artsinaction said:
Hey there, rios! Good, good questions and for as many times as it comes up, having to answer these again for ourselves helps us in our practice, too.

First of all, very, very cool that you're doing an mma site! Please post links once it's up so we can check it out!

Secondly, the answer to both of your questions, for me, is found in the weekly review. I know I'm going to be looking at my actions at least once a week in my review so I can re-evaluate what was accomplished, what now has priority (which may not have had priority the week before), and what needs to be accomplished in the following days.

And feel free to create a separate list or lists for sub-projects. The GTD system has best practices but you'll know how best to structure it for you the more you use it. Don't hesitate, either, to try something for a few weeks or months then try something else. As our lives and businesses change, GTD can change with them.

Hope that helps!

Dena

Hey thanks for the kind words. Sure, I can update you for sure if that interests you. Its an mma online training site. Its really cool :-)

In regards to your suggestions, yes, I think the weekly review & even daily "mini" review is incredibly important. For now I will put all the "not dependent" actions on my lists and do my weekly review for more actions.

Thank you !
 
Chrille said:
If your main project has a deadline it is important to find out if you have a critical path, if there is enough time and resources to finish the project in time etc.
I have been working as a profesional project manager for 15 years and have a PMP certification since 10 years. As much as I completely love GTD it is not to be used to handle and plan complex projects, even if some ideas is useful. They are a different kind of beast.
GTD could very well be used in the project but not recommended for overall planning.

Sent from my Sputnik, totally lost in space 😱

Could you define a complex project based off your experience? This particular project i'm referring to has approximately 10-15 sub-projects and would take approx. 1 month to complete at this point.

Its just with all the moving parts, some dependent on others, day to day changes, its been tough to tract appropriately.

Any best practices?

Thanks
 
Chrille said:
If your main project has a deadline it is important to find out if you have a critical path, if there is enough time and resources to finish the project in time etc.
I have been working as a profesional project manager for 15 years and have a PMP certification since 10 years. As much as I completely love GTD it is not to be used to handle and plan complex projects, even if some ideas is useful. They are a different kind of beast.
GTD could very well be used in the project but not recommended for overall planning.

Sent from my Sputnik, totally lost in space 😱

What do you consider a complex project?
 
jenkins said:
Hi rios, welcome to the forum!

1. I think it depends (I know that's not necessarily a satisfactory answer). Generally, you can write out as many next actions as you want, provided they are really "next" actions, and not dependent, as you say, on other actions. If they're truly independent of other actions, I don't see a good reason to omit them from your Next Actions lists.

2. Put the project's due date on your calendar. That's a given. Depending on the complexity of the project, you can set up other reminders on your calendar as "checkpoints" to make sure you're on track. I'm not sure exactly how complex the project you are handling is -- there are of course more sophisticated planning methods you could use, e.g., Gantt and PERT charts, but that might be overkill.

If you're struggling with what to do, what to do next, etc., you probably need to do some project planning. Generally, you can just work off your NA lists, adding new actions during your weekly review, and using the calendar deadline as a backstop to make sure you give yourself enough lead time between actions. Do that enough times, and eventually the project will look like it's "done." If that doesn't sound like it'll work for you (i.e., it's not enough structure to get the project off your mind), you just need to add a little more project support material. That could be a Gantt or PERT chart, but it could also just be a mind map or outline of the project and its sub-projects.

Hey thanks for the tips. I think the weekly & a daily review will help clarify things a bit. I like the idea of "checkpoints" on the calendar to make sure I"m on track.

What would you define as "complex"? I think the charts are overkill aswell but I could look into it. I've never used them before. I think some more informal project planning is what I need to do.

Thanks
 
Folke said:
Rios, are you talking about a project or a project ? ;-)

A "project" in the GTD sense can be any task with more than one step in it, and you simply put all the possible actions on your list (as jenkins said) or you can even prioritize a bit by not putting some of the actions on the list just yet (as artsinaction said). Many of the things we tend to do in our lives are this type of loose "project". You often do not depend on a whole lot of fixed dates or deadlines; most of the stuff is on a "the sooner the better" basis. And if you lose control over it, you can always catch up during the weekly review (but personally I usually don't want to wait that long; I usually review my projects more often if they are moving quickly.)

In a more "industrial" sense you may have projects that require a very tight, crammed time schedule, with agreements among many participants, exact time and resource plans etc (as Chrille points out). Regular project management practices are usually better for those kinds of undertakings.

So, what kind of project is this mma site? is it a regular GTD/asap thing that you will do more or less all by yourself? Is its deadline externally contracted etc or is even the final deadline just a subjective wish on your part that you could alter without asking anyone? Go for a GTD approach. This is normally easier.

Or do you have subcontractors or others that you need to book up in advance to do certain things in time and in the right order? In that case, plan at least the outline of the project in the "industrial" way, with exact dates etc for the other contractors and deadlines for the things that you yourself need to prepare for them in advance. You can still use a regular ("unscheduled") GTD approach for the various little actions within each of these "preparation subprojects".

Hey, thanks for the reply.

The final deadline is a subjective wish that could be altered by myself. I have one partner and we both have commitments in regards to this project so while its an option, its not one I'd like to entertain. I do however see your point.
 
rios;186715 said:
Could you define a complex project based off your experience? This particular project i'm referring to has approximately 10-15 sub-projects and would take approx. 1 month to complete at this point.

Its just with all the moving parts, some dependent on others, day to day changes, its been tough to tract appropriately.

Any best practices?

Thanks
I think Folke described it quit well.
Generally I would prefer as non complex Gannt chart as possible but which gives me enough detail to at least identify the critical path. Uncertain things (timewise) I would break down to smaller workpackage as well. This to be able to follow up and be comfortable that I wont run out of time at the end of the project.
A project doesn't get late by a month all of a sudden. It get late a day at a time and you do want to notice that as soon as possible. The days adds up quit quick...

Sent from my Sputnik, totally lost in space 😱
 
Rios,

Welcome to the forums! Two things have helped me the most with the relationships between Projects, Sub-Projects, and Next Actions:

1. Overplanning: Plan just enough to empty your head and to get the project moving. You should capture everything that bothers you about the project now and put it in your trusted system. Locate one current action that will move the project ahead and put that on your Next Actions list. Situations change. Budgets change. Emotions change. If you plan too much in advance, there will be too much to cull through later on. So plan just enough to create peace-of-mind and kickstart progress on each project.

2. Sub-Projects: I believe sub-projects should be treated as what they are—Projects. In my experience, nesting sub-projects increases the chances I fail to review them. If you regularly review the nested sub-projects each week with your Weekly Review, there is no problem. But nesting things inside of other things means they slip past me. My biggest productivity boost on projects occurred once I put all sub-projects at the main level of my Projects list and grouped them with a special naming structure:
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of main project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
The TAGs allow me to see the cluster of main projects and sub-projects together. Examples of tags include well-being, career, productivity, family, website, etc. Keeping those active sub-projects at the main level of my active Projects list provides a better visual representation of my total inventory of projects than just my main projects alone. The key to making this work—at least digitally—is to put a link inside of the main project to the sub-project at the main level list. I haven't tried this approach with a paper-based system, but I believe it could work just as well.

Keep us posted on how things progress, Rios. We would love to hear back on what works for you!
 
Rios,

Welcome to the forums! Two things have helped me the most with the relationships between Projects, Sub-Projects, and Next Actions:

1. Overplanning: Plan just enough to empty your head and to get the project moving. You should capture everything that bothers you about the project now and put it in your trusted system. Locate one current action that will move the project ahead and put that on your Next Actions list. Situations change. Budgets change. Emotions change. If you plan too much in advance, there will be too much to cull through later on. So plan just enough to create peace-of-mind and kickstart progress on each project.

2. Sub-Projects: I believe sub-projects should be treated as what they are—Projects. In my experience, nesting sub-projects increases the chances I fail to review them. If you regularly review the nested sub-projects each week with your Weekly Review, there is no problem. But nesting things inside of other things means they slip past me. My biggest productivity boost on projects occurred once I put all sub-projects at the main level of my Projects list and grouped them with a special naming structure:
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of main project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
  • Project-[TAG] Name of sub-project
The TAGs allow me to see the cluster of main projects and sub-projects together. Examples of tags include well-being, career, productivity, family, website, etc. Keeping those active sub-projects at the main level of my active Projects list provides a better visual representation of my total inventory of projects than just my main projects alone. The key to making this work—at least digitally—is to put a link inside of the main project to the sub-project at the main level list. I haven't tried this approach with a paper-based system, but I believe it could work just as well.

Keep us posted on how things progress, Rios. We would love to hear back on what works for you!
 
This is not the sort of thing that I personally would track entirely with GTD. I would track it elsewhere, I would treat the "elsewhere" as project support material. The "elsewhere" would feed my GTD project/action lists with actions for the next few days/weeks, and I would enter those actions during my weekly review.

(You notice that I say "I" a lot here. Some people do track complex projects inside their project/action lists. I can't do it; I need those lists to be lean.)

For example, let's say that I start a yearlong plan for my vegetable garden. The plan would be triggered by various GTD projects and actions, but let's skip over that and assume that it's done. The plan, once it's done, would be project support material. Let's say that it has:

- A list of planting tasks, with start and end dates--when to get the onion seeds planted in the greenhouse, when to get the peas in the ground, and so on.
- A list of prep tasks--when to prepare the onion bed, when to prepare the pea bed, and so on. Also with start and end dates, based on the dates of the previous list.
- A list of maintenance or time-sensitive tasks--when to prune the roses, when the corn is expected to be ready to harvest, when to start watching for a late-winter or early-spring day when the soil is wet enough to till but not too wet, when to check whether the potato onions that I saved for seed look like they'll survive until planting because if they don't I'll plant something else in their bed, and so on.
- And so on, and so on, and so on.

All of that stuff would be project support material. You could argue that it's "inside" GTD, in the sense that the GTD model includes project support material. But it's not "inside" my lists of projects and next actions.

My GTD lists of projects and next actions would instead have, among other things, a project "Plan garden maintenance." That project would have tasks at weekly and monthly intervals instructing me to feed my GTD projects list with projects and actions for whatever I should be doing soon in the garden.

If there are a modest number of tasks, I may fill in everything I could be doing; if not, I will fill in the highest-urgency tasks. For example, the garden has 120 beds, about eighty of which I could be prepping this winter. That's not going to happen; I'll prep some of them and slap sunflowers in the rest. I won't enter tasks for all eighty; I'll choose maybe six of the top priority ones, and when they're done, I'll go back for more.

I would also add reminders for context, so that I don't need to rethink lines of logic in the moment. ("Oh, yeah; I'm not planting the eating peas next to the fence because I planted sweet peas there last year, and I don't want to accidentally eat volunteers." This item might also trigger an action, "Research just how poisonous sweet peas are anyway.")

In this model, I could have projects and actions that look like:

Keep garden planted
- Plant peas in beds D3 and D4.

Keep garden maintained
- Check D1 and D2 for germination of favas planted 12/1.
- Hoe E5 and E6. (Reminder: They're uncovered because they'll be potatoes.)

Keep garden prep ahead of planting
- Attach wires for sweet peas to fence by beds A3 and A4.
- Dig and amend beds A3 and A4 for sweet peas.
- Dig and amend beds H1 and H2 ready for roses. (Reminder: The WHOLE ROW, H1-H12, will be roses.)

Again, the above is a tiny subset of well over a hundred potential tasks. In this scenario, I sat down for my weekly review, and decided that prepping four beds was the most that I had any hope of accomplishing before the next review, though I added that reminder about row H just in case I had extra energy.

Alternatively, I could keep even more detail out of my GTD projects and lists and have GTD projects like:

Keep garden prep ahead of planting
- Do something from garden prep list.

Keep garden planted
- Do something from garden planting list.

Keep garden monitored
- Do something from garden maintenance list.

In real life, I'm halfway between these two; sometimes I select tasks carefully for my lists, and sometimes I realize that, hey! The weather's good for gardening! and I have a quick look at my project support material to find tasks.

I can do it this way because for my garden, I only report to me. If I discover that I didn't get around to "order shallots" in the "Keep seeds supplied" list before the ordering deadline, then I just say "oops" and move on; no homegrown shallots for me this year. The fact that I didn't get to an item probably means that my garden was over-ambitious and something needed to be dropped, and ordering my task lists by approximate priority means that I'm moderately likely to drop the lower priority items.

If I did have to report to anyone, I'd probably use a real project management tool.
 
Gardener said:
For example, let's say that I start a yearlong plan for my vegetable garden.
This sounds beautiful and delicious! Post pictures please! Visual confirmation of the payoffs of GTD!
Dena
 
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