GTD and failure to do higher level goals

[Ship69]

Hello

I think the biggest weakness of the GTD method is that there is a lack of emphasis in higher level thinking. Yes, it's there, but it's a slight after-thought and is presented as being what you do AFTER you feel that you've got everything fully under control. But in practice, this may never happen!

When using the GTD method, when I look back over the last few months, if I'm completely honest, I keep finding myself not actually getting onto the higher level goals and higher level strategic thinking properly.

And I keep finding that through my weekly and daily reviews, that looking back over time that I just keep ending up doing lots of fire-fighting task, and although GTD does help me do them fairly efficiently, it does not seem to be helping me stay focussed on the really important longer range stuff.

David Allen seems to rather gloss over the big picture thinking, saying that it sort of happens automatically via the weekly reviews (it doesn't) that there are lots of other tools out there (yes but which do you recommend?)

What doesn't help is that in my GTD software (MLO) there is no very easy way to map my tasks onto goals, without unwanted clutter.

Any suggestions?

J

 

[Gardener]

My issue with the higher level goals is the assumption that you know what those goals are--the assumption that you start at the top and figure out the bottom. I think that sometimes you start at the bottom and figure out the top.

Do you know what you want at the top?

 

[Ship69]

My issue with the higher level goals is the assumption that you know what those goals are--the assumption that you start at the top and figure out the bottom. I think that sometimes you start at the bottom and figure out the top.

Do you know what you want at the top?

Yes, absolutely! Although it requires high quality, persistent reflective thinking to get there.

In some cases (trivial stuff like "go buy some food") it's too much hassle to add, however for other projects it's absolutely crucial.
Why am I doing project X? If I don't know and/or I'm not clear then maybe I shouldn't be doing it at all.

As things stand, I find myself getting WAY too distracted by details of life. Not good!

 

[tismey]

I think the biggest weakness of the GTD method is that there is a lack of emphasis in higher level thinking. Yes, it's there, but it's a slight after-thought and is presented as being what you do AFTER you feel that you've got everything fully under control

I find this interesting, because for me, the higher Horizons of Focus (3-5) have become incredibly important and instructive over the last year. Have you read 'Making It All Work'? I find that a much clearer explanation of how to work with the Horizons to gain perspective than the one in Getting Things Done.

David Allen seems to rather gloss over the big picture thinking, saying that it sort of happens automatically via the weekly reviews (it doesn't)

That's not how I read it, and I don't think anything happens "automatically" as a part of GTD. Personally, I put in reminders to go up the horizons as a part of my weekly review as I feel like I need to. A change of roles or responsibility at work or home might mean actively reviewing Horizon 2 more frequently; a feeling of utter futility and lack of accomplishment might signal that it is time to honestly reassess where you're at in relation to your Horizon 5. You need to actively engage with these Horizons occasionally, but not necessarily all the time

Any suggestions?

My question would be - why is this so important to you at the moment? Is there something in your upper Horizons that you're not tending to because of the 'fire-fighting'? Or is it the opposite, that your Projects and Next Actions aren't in service of your higher Horizons and therefore you're finding them a bit pointless? If you can articulate this to yourself, maybe that will help point in the direction for addressing it.

 

[NickB-GTD]

Hello Ship69,
Something interesting that I took away from my GTD Certification was the negative attention that the "fire fighting" tasks get.

Most likely all people would rather focus on their higher horizons goals and projects but depending on the time of year/business needs/your current situation - some "fire fighting" tasks may be appropriate and necessary. Even though it may not seem productive to focus on the loudest items on your list, technically you are still getting work done. (That is a positive)

Now, for some possible suggestions -
For your "fire fighting" list, you may need to consider the following if possible:
1. Delegate - are any of the tasks that are "trivial" able to be delegated? Possibly to co-workers, managers, employees, spouse/family?
2. Defer It - when a "fire fighting" task comes up - think about it for just a moment and see "If this doesn't get done right now - what would happen?
- this may allow you to free up some time by just letting go of certain tasks.
3. Re-negotiate - perhaps it is just the business need/time of your personal life where your attention needs to be on the "fire fighting" tasks.
- although it may not be your ideal situation - you may need to give yourself "permission" to work on the medial tasks and get to the higher level items once your other items slow down.

Hope this helps!
-Nick

 

[Ship69]

Hello Ship69,
Something interesting that I took away from my GTD Certification was the negative attention that the "fire fighting" tasks get.

Most likely all people would rather focus on their higher horizons goals and projects but depending on the time of year/business needs/your current situation - some "fire fighting" tasks may be appropriate and necessary. Even though it may not seem productive to focus on the loudest items on your list, technically you are still getting work done. (That is a positive)

Now, for some possible suggestions -
For your "fire fighting" list, you may need to consider the following if possible:
1. Delegate - are any of the tasks that are "trivial" able to be delegated? Possibly to co-workers, managers, employees, spouse/family?
2. Defer It - when a "fire fighting" task comes up - think about it for just a moment and see "If this doesn't get done right now - what would happen?
- this may allow you to free up some time by just letting go of certain tasks.
3. Re-negotiate - perhaps it is just the business need/time of your personal life where your attention needs to be on the "fire fighting" tasks.
- although it may not be your ideal situation - you may need to give yourself "permission" to work on the medial tasks and get to the higher level items once your other items slow down.

Hope this helps!
-Nick

If you want the honest truth I find myself not getting around to doing the higher level thinking. Mostly because I am still caught up in doing the day-to-day stuff. i.e. I keep very busy but only in hindsight do I realize that I may have been avoiding doing certain things and actually doing all the wrong things, albeit via GTD with pretty good efficiency.

So cuss and swear and get busy again. And then find I've done exactly the same thing yet again!

I need more coaching, tips and advice on how to do the higher level thinking better.

I have started listening to "Making It All Work" as an audio book. In the first hour frankly it's pretty long winded stuff telling us how wonderful the GTD method is. No doubt he'll come to the point eventually. [deep sigh]

 

[Oogiem]

I think the biggest weakness of the GTD method is that there is a lack of emphasis in higher level thinking. Yes, it's there, but it's a slight after-thought and is presented as being what you do AFTER you feel that you've got everything fully under control. But in practice, this may never happen!
....
David Allen seems to rather gloss over the big picture thinking, saying that it sort of happens automatically via the weekly reviews (it doesn't) that there are lots of other tools out there (yes but which do you recommend?)

For me I started with the big goals because I came to GTD from Franklin Covey so that part was easy but translating those goals into concrete projects and actions to actually get me there was not. However what I find is that my in-depth quarterly reviews when I switch my GTD system into what's possible that next season are natural breaks where I visit the higher levels. For most folks until you have a coupe of years getting the little stuff out of the way using GTD you won't have the mental bandwidth to tackle the big questions.

I'd say give yourself some time.

 

[Oogiem]

I need more coaching, tips and advice on how to do the higher level thinking better.

I have started listening to "Making It All Work" as an audio book. In the first hour frankly it's pretty long winded stuff telling us how wonderful the GTD method is. No doubt he'll come to the point eventually. [deep sigh]

Search back through the posts here I know somewhere I put out a big long list of actions and questions to think about to uncover the important higher levels for you. Take some time to do one or more of those exercises.

I've never listened to any audio books, I don't like noise and do much better reading. At least for me the Making it All Work book really gelled the concepts that were introduced in the GTD book. Maybe you should try the paper or electronic book instead of the audio? I have no idea if it's just a direct reading of the book or whether it's a variation on it using a scriptwriter. If the latter I'd say go to the original source instead.

 

[TesTeq]

I've never listened to any audio books, I don't like noise and do much better reading.

Oh, interesting. I find most of the audiobooks recorded using a very high quality professional equipment without any noise. But wait. How can you tell how it sounds when you say you've never listened to any audiobooks?

I was trying to record my book by myself but then hired professional studio and they did a perfect job without any noises.

 

[Gardener]

Oh, interesting. I find most of the audiobooks recorded using a very high quality professional equipment without any noise. But wait. How can you tell how it sounds when you say you've never listened to any audiobooks?

I was trying to record my book by myself but then hired professional studio and they did a perfect job without any noises.

I was assuming that Oogiem was referring to the actual content of the audiobook as noise--an audible presentation of the content rather than a silent visual presentation.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Oogiem]

I was assuming that Oogiem was referring to the actual content of the audiobook as noise--an audible presentation of the content rather than a silent visual presentation.

But I could be wrong.

No you are correct. I don't do sound inputs at all well. To me no matter how well recorded the very act of speaking is often really just noise. I sure can't understand or get useful information from the vast majority of sound inputs. I can go hours sitting across the desk from my husband and we communicate via e-mail written messages. We have no music playing and can't think when there is extraneous noise in our environment. However, we are highly tuned to anomalous noises, the pump going on when we haven't been using water, the whinny from the stallion that is "different", the bark of the guard dog that indicates something more than a typical 4 footed threat, the sneeze from a sheep that indicates a problem with nose bots. But trying to get useful information from listening to an audio book is beyond me.

 

[Oogiem]

I find most of the audiobooks recorded using a very high quality professional equipment without any noise..

Noise is the content. I can't interpret the sound inputs at all well. Doesn't matter the quality of the recording it's like what the sheep in Shaun the sheep hear when the farmer and other humans speak, just basic noise, no useful information at all. I can read and comprehend well but I can't listen and comprehend at all well. Also think of noise as in signal to noise ratio. For me nearly all au audible inputs have a high noise ratio compared to the thin thread of signal I can extract from that media.

 

[Ship69]

Interesting how different we all are. Personally I read only with difficulty. In general the spoken word is infinitely better. It also allows me to use dead time more effectively such as driving or brushing my teeth.

For me the one big problem with audio is marking sections up for review. So far the best solution I have is to have a simple portable voice recorder (which must have extremely good ergonomics and which can be used whilst driving etc) for me to digest and record one or two key points, which I will then write-up later.