Still can't get organizing right

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furashgf

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I must be missing something. I'm okay with all of the steps but organizing. Leaving aside projects that are so simple that they don't need organizing, at least 30-50% of my projects seem sizable enough that they need organizing. I've got no trouble whacking out the outcome/vision thing, but:

1. I never get to the brainstorming/organize part - I've cut it out of the weekly review; It's not clear from the david materials when you do the brainstorm/organize.
2. It takes forever to do it (I can spend up to 1/2 hour or an hour, coming through materials, etc., fiddling with the outline).
3. I end up with something very "fragile" - constantly needs revisiting.
 
furashgf said:
1. I never get to the brainstorming/organize part - I've cut it out of the weekly review; It's not clear from the david materials when you do the brainstorm/organize.
2. It takes forever to do it (I can spend up to 1/2 hour or an hour, coming through materials, etc., fiddling with the outline).
3. I end up with something very "fragile" - constantly needs revisiting.
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Brainstorming each project is NOT part of the weekly review. You should do it on as needed basis. If your "project plans" seem to constantly need revision, try just doing next actions: do one, do whatever else you want to do on that project, and then write down the next action for when you work on the project again.
 
mcogilvie's correct; you don't organize during the weekly review; you do it as soon as a project comes up.

Also, in GTD, organizing does not mean brainstorming. In fact, in GTD there is very little brainstorming.

The purpose of the Organizing step is to accomplish the following:

1. Figure out if the project needs to be done now or later.
2. Putting the project in your Projects or Someday/Maybe lists.
3. If it's a current project, determining the Next Action.
4. Storing or trashing appropriate materials (putting an article you want to read in a tickler file, storing a brochure in a long-term file, etc.).

This shouldn't take an hour. Obviously, if you want to take time brainstorming about the project, you can, but you don't need to. All you need to worry about are the four things above.

(Unless I've missed something.)
 
The second to most important part of GTD to me is Brainstorming.
That is step 3 in the Natural Planning Model.
(the most important part of GTD to me is the DOING of the NA, even if the Outcome is not perfectly clear).

But the Brainstorming step is far more important than Organizing in my book.
'Mental Creation' is literally listed higher on the level of 'mental skills', and 'organizing' is pretty far down the list.

Once you set the Outcome and the Purpose, then the next step is natural Brainstorming, that never really ends. Then you organize and identify the NA's.

Of course this is all non-linear.

To me its an error to say there is never a time for Brainstorming, its happening naturally all the time. Whenever you get an idea, you plug it in.
You'll get your best ideas in the shower, or at 3am driving home, or waking up in a cold sweat, etc. When doing the WR, that is a great time to write down the ideas you get, or maybe you get them when you are on the toilet after you finish the WR. That's how it works!

But just don't overdo the planning, unless you are doing some serious Project Manglement. Brainstorm out all of your ideas whenever they occur, and then immediately ACT and DO a Next Action. You'll figure it out as you go along, and adjust.
(he says to himself as he tries to take his own advice)

Why not give us a SPECIFIC example of a project you are having trouble with?
 
also, see pages 70-74 in GTD, for some good stuff on Brainstorming.
Mind-mapping, distributed cognition, write it down, don't evaluate, go for quantity not quality, don't analyze yet...
 
CosmoGTD said:
To me its an error to say there is never a time for Brainstorming.
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If you're referring to my response, Cosmo, I never wrote that there's never a time for brainstorming.

Why not give us a SPECIFIC example of a project you are having trouble with?
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Yes, please!
 
More information

Thanks for all the good comments. I'll try to be a bit more specific.

I currently have 60 projects (probably really more like 80/100 but leave that aside for the moment). I don't have any trouble keeping each one moving - e.g., figuring out a next action on the fly during the weekly review or as I finish them. Some of them clearly don't need much brainstorming & organizing, like "Hang Pictures at Home": it's sort of obvious what to do. Others are much larger BUT I don't have a large, fancy outline or mind map from each.

The reason this concerns me is that his book spends a fair bit of time talking about the importance of natural planning, and talks about pulling NA from your organized plan rather than making them up. So, I think I'm doing this wrong.

I used to do my brainstorming & organizing during the weekly review, but killed this because it caused me never to finish a review. I then tried to do it as I created the project, but often I'm creating the project as I process, and process NAs are < 2 minutes, and brainstorming and organizing takes a while.

When I do get around to it, it can take up to 1/2 hour or more to finish my branstorming activity following the natural planning model, then I have something that's sort of "fragile" - i.e., I need to maintain the thing to make it look like the issues the project is handling today.
 
If your projects are moving forward and you're happy with the results, don't worry about it.

Though DA spends a lot of time talking about the natural planning method, he also notes that most projects for most people don't need this level of detail. (He then muddies the waters by using the trivial example of planning an evening out to illustrate the method. Oh well.)

For projects that require more detailed planning, the best approach for me seems to be to create a planning-oriented NA. What that NA is depends on the project. It could be "@Call: Ask Mom when she wants to visit" or "@Anywhere: Outline research plan for (subject)." As with any other NA, the planning step is simply the next action needed to move the project forward. And then once I've done the planning, I'll end up with other actions, other subprojects, and possibly even other planning tasks, all of which can go into my system as normal.

Katherine
 
furashgf said:
Others are much larger BUT I don't have a large, fancy outline or mind map from each.

The reason this concerns me is that his book spends a fair bit of time talking about the importance of natural planning, and talks about pulling NA from your organized plan rather than making them up. So, I think I'm doing this wrong.
.
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DA says that only 5-15% of projects need a fancy outline.
I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems reasonable, by his definition of projects.

But I have to be honest. I have read what DA has said about projects many times, and and parts of it are not very clear, at least to me, and obviously to many other people who posts I have read.
Personally, I cannot just keep a random list of projects, with some tiny project mixed in with an important one. That doesn't make any sense to me. Life is short, and for me its important to give priority to the projects which are most important.
Also, often things happen, and pretty much one project will take over for an entire week or longer.

Personally, I have not yet figured out the best way to manage my project list, even after all this time.

But I do agree that for most projects, instead of getting some amazing Masterplan, its better to outline the very Next Actions for them, and simply start DOING. The details and structure will change over time as stuff happens.

I think DA should have done an entire chapter, with full examples, on how to specifically put together your project list, and then how to manage it over time. It would have been useful to see a bunch of real project lists, and how they change over time.
My gut tells me there is something missing in all of this, and I have resolved to figure out what.
 
Ferklempt to Butter

furashgf said:
I've got no trouble whacking out the outcome/vision thing, but:
1. I never get to the brainstorming/organize part - . . .
2. It takes forever to do it (I can spend up to 1/2 hour or an hour, coming through materials, etc., fiddling with the outline).
3. I end up with something very "fragile" - constantly needs revisiting.
Click to expand...

Others have given you better responses than I can, but I'll throw out my impression from your complaint: I wonder whether you have adequately defined and clarified the project's outcome and purpose (see CosmoGTD post for more). I find that my projects that stall out are usually imbued with a squishy or fuzzy quality. Invariably, when I ramp up the focus and demand from myself a succinct explanation of why I'm doing the thing and what I want from having done it, I find conflicts. On the surface, it may seem eminently worthy, so I have to explore the causes for my reticence. Sometimes it turns out that the justification for the project is there and its outcome well defined, but I really don't want to do it. I may want it done, but I may not want to be the person who does it. Sometimes I discover that I believe that doing the project will ultimately lead to negative consequences of some sort, and I haven't adequately explored or come to terms with those risks. Sometimes I find that, while I am personally assured of the project's merit, underneath it all I am not confident that it has the support and backing of others who will be involved in it. I'm often loathe to confront that reality and see what the others feel because I'm so sold on the project myself. Ego, ack! Sometimes I realize I haven't properly scoped out the costs of the project, in time and funds and other resources, and am hesitating because instinct tells me that ultimately, it's not going to be feasible. There are plenty of other dynamics that can stymie a project, but those are the biggies in my world.

I believe that if you are on track and other things are working well, stalling or hesitation in moving a project forward is an indicator that work needs to be done on the justification for the project itself. I've found that when I finally get down to brass tacks and pinpoint the problem and resolve it, the ambiguities and conflicts evaporate and it's clear sailing. Until the next block.

Which brings me to another point. Complex projects that involve major resources and require work over a long period of time are the most subject to changes in direction and circumstance, and their logical underpinnings may need review and reevaluation throughout the execution of the project. Momentum is wonderful when you need it, but it can be a monster when you'd be best served by abandoning or redirecting an ongoing effort.

Lastly, 30 minutes doesn't seem excessive for this kind of work. Half an hour spent focusing on the real issues can save you goodwill and funds, not to mention days, weeks, or more in time and labor. The positive effect of true clarity of purpose can generate enormous energy to accomplish the work itself. Or, as I think of it, out of ferklempt comes butter.

Arduinna
 
Arduinna said:
Sometimes it turns out that the justification for the project is there and its outcome well defined, but I really don't want to do it. I may want it done, but I may not want to be the person who does it. Sometimes I discover that I believe that doing the project will ultimately lead to negative consequences of some sort, and I haven't adequately explored or come to terms with those risks. Sometimes I find that, while I am personally assured of the project's merit, underneath it all I am not confident that it has the support and backing of others who will be involved in it. I'm often loathe to confront that reality and see what the others feel because I'm so sold on the project myself. Ego, ack! Sometimes I realize I haven't properly scoped out the costs of the project, in time and funds and other resources, and am hesitating because instinct tells me that ultimately, it's not going to be feasible. There are plenty of other dynamics that can stymie a project, but those are the biggies in my world.
Arduinna
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Very astute points!
There can be all sorts of 'hidden' reasons behind why a project is not moving.
Our mind can literally play tricks on us sometimes as well, and can sometimes see around corners better than we can consciously.
There is a lot more to all this than meets the eye at first glance...
 
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