Can we change the attitude from Evernote company?

[lake]

Hello guys,

I am using Evernote for a while, and it is great tool for capturing and storing reference materials. It could be perfect tool for the whole GTD setup but - as many of you know - there is no "Due date" and a calendar functionality. And non-native solutions like Tusktools, Nozbe, Zendone are not really convenient.

Evernote representatives explicitly say that they don't want to add calendar functionality.

https://support.evernote.com/link/portal/16051/16058/Article/1632/Does-Evernote-integrate-with-my-favorite-calendar-application-service

Personally, I love a comment from this thread

http://blog.evernote.com/2010/03/19/getting-things-done-with-evernote-nozbe-integration/

Why should Evernote work on making itself more GTD friendly? Despite what GTD zealots may think, most of the world is not using GTD and many productivity experts have issues with some of the weakness in the GTD system. It’s not my intention to get into a debate about the merits of GTD, but I’m constantly amused by these kinds of demands from GTD supporters. Maybe the GTD rights-owners should make it one of their “next actions” to consider building GTD-specific software instead of expecting every developer to add GTD functionality to their apps.

Recently I've listen to fantastic "In conversation " with Marshall Goldsmith. His statement that

Every decision that affects our lives will be made by the person who has the power to make that decision, not the "right" person or the "smartest" person or the "best" person

was eye-opening for me.
This idea suggests two possibilities :
To accept the attitude of decision-makers. In this case Evernote company
or to try to influence it.

I want to ask an opinion of senior "GTD zealots" - can we influence Evernote, or we should just make peace with the Evernote decision?

Andrii

 

[TesTeq]

We shouldn't waste our time fighting with windmills...

I want to ask an opinion of senior "GTD zealots" - can we influence Evernote, or we should just make peace with the Evernote decision?

Why Evernote? Shouldn't we convince Apple to make iOS Reminders GTD compatible?

I think Marshall Goldsmith is right. We shouldn't waste our time fighting with windmills...

 

[mcogilvie]

Evernote representatives explicitly say that they don't want to add calendar functionality.
..
I want to ask an opinion of senior "GTD zealots" - can we influence Evernote, or we should just make peace with the Evernote decision?

Andrii

The statement you quote is bland corporate prose:

"Evernote does not current integrate directly with any calendaring systems or reminder/alarm services. However, some of our partners offer services listed in the Evernote Trunk that that allow this functionality."

from which you deduce that the leadership of Evernote has such a strong animosity to gtd that it can only be expressed by strong vulgarity. It seems likely to me that Evernote is merely focused on its core vision and competency. Because I use Evernote for reference information, and follow David Allan's recommendation to keep reference separate from next actions, I have no need for the functionality you desire.

 

[lake]

Really sorry for my vulgarity

mcogilvie is right - my message was too rude.

I apologize for this.

I thought that Adam (the guy with a quote about "GTD zealots") was a representative of Evernote. I don't know if it is true or not.

Unfortunately, Evernote ignores numerous requests for reminders (calendar) functionality, which is needed for any productivity system, not only for GTD.
Yes, Evernote ignores it nicely and politely, and it is their choice.

Because I use Evernote for reference information, and follow David Allan's recommendation to keep reference separate from next actions, I have no need for the functionality you desire.

Can you ,please, say where I can find this David Allan's recommendation?
It seems that I missed some part of GTD implementation.

And how you synchronize your projects (next actions) manager with your reference system?
Do you manually duplicate projects in todomanager and Evernote? Tags?

For me it is quite painful to open todomanager, chose next action, then to open Evernote and to try to find reference material, which I need in order to do chosen next action.

Thanks in advance for help,

Andrii

 

[Barb]

Just another opinion

My main list manager system is Omnifocus on the iPad. There is no calendar function there either and it doesn't bother me a bit.

Evernote wasn't designed to be a list manager (although you can make it so) and certainly not a calendar, contact manager, or anything other than just a great tool to store information. But people like it so much they want it to be everything for everyone. I feel like these companies ought to do what they do best and not attempt to please everyone--because they never will.

 

[mcogilvie]

Can you ,please, say where I can find this David Allan's recommendation?
It seems that I missed some part of GTD implementation.

And how you synchronize your projects (next actions) manager with your reference system?
Do you manually duplicate projects in todomanager and Evernote? Tags?

For me it is quite painful to open todomanager, chose next action, then to open Evernote and to try to find reference material, which I need in order to do chosen next action.

Thank you for seeing that you may have been a bit over the top.

The separation between reference and actionable is built into the five stages of workflow, but I've heard the recommendation to not blend reference and actions so many times I can't pinpoint a single place anymore.

My project support material is largely in three places: brief info needed for planning and doing goes into notes for projects and next actions, longer project reference information goes into SimpleNote/NValt, and project files are in dropbox. I use Evernote for reference, not project support. To give concrete examples, email gets clipped into next actions when I need to respond to an email, plans for a trip get collected into SimpleNote/NValt and things like manuscripts are filed in folders in Dropbox, organized by areas of focus and then projects. I use tags in Evernote, but not for much else. I don't have a problem finding stuff, but I am separating real project information from things I put in Evernote, like plays I have seen or an article I might use in a class. So in that sense I'm not following DA's recommendation for one filing system. On the other hand, DA is ok with specialized filing systems for things like finances or client files, and I see what I do as not much different.

One thing I do know about myself is that while I am attracted to tech-heavy tricks that aim to automate workflow, they distract me from my real work far more than they increase my productivity. So I keep trying to suppress my inner nerd. Simple and elegant is what I aim for, but I often fall short.

 

[John Forrister]

Thread title changed

Based on feedback we've received from forum members, as well as the unfolding discussion in this thread, I've changed the thread title.

I really appreciate the quality of this discussion. Our forum members continue to demonstrate honest, direct, and polite communication. And flexible thinking.

Best,
John

 

[lake]

Title changed

Thanks, John.
I've also changed the title of my first message

 

[lake]

To give concrete examples, email gets clipped into next actions when I need to respond to an email, plans for a trip get collected into SimpleNote/NValt and things like manuscripts are filed in folders in Dropbox, organized by areas of focus and then projects

Thanks a lot, mcogilvie.

After your message I questioned if I need Evernote at all.
And it turned out that it is possible to organize a whole reference system in the Dropbox.
With flexibility to have all file types, use any text typing program, with cloud access.

And for free.

So I should stop criticize Evernote, since in few day I'll stop using it.

 

[DenaDahilig]

I am using Evernote for a while, and it is great tool for capturing and storing reference materials. It could be perfect tool for the whole GTD setup but - as many of you know - there is no "Due date" and a calendar functionality. And non-native solutions like Tusktools, Nozbe, Zendone are not really convenient.

There's an undeniable focus on apps that perform one function really, really well, rather than behemoth apps that do it all. And Evernote is a great example of a terrific, though focused, app.

So I appreciate having the flexibility to change up these singularly-focused apps when something better comes along without having to change up my whole system.

That said, I'm keeping my eye on the collaboration between the David Allen Company and Intentional Software to see if the GTD solution they develop - keeping fingers crossed for that - solves the question of what tools to use to best implement GTD.

Dena

 

[Mark Jantzen]

Get the Basics Right

I just wish they'd get the basics right.

I find the iPad app unreliable as it crashes and loses notes often.

I've experienced so many lost notes or parts of notes that I'm very close to giving up on this tool. I've been using it as a compliment to my main GTD tool (OmniFocus) for things like random notes, ideas, action support and reference.

Today was my last straw. Took really good notes during the Keys to GTD Webinar and after sync ... poof, gone.

Hoping I'll get home and find them in version history.

My Premium subscription is feeling like wasted ... I'll stop now.

 

[mcogilvie]

I'm not having problems with the new iOS version of Evernote, but I can't say I like it much either. It feels like feature churn: no improvements, just change. I'm rethinking my use of it.

 

[MarkDillon]

Andrii,

I understand, and have been where you are, when it comes to wanting Evernote to be different.

I started with Evernote as my platform of choice to implement GTD in my life. I enjoyed much of what they offer and I was always surprised, and pleased, that I never had to pay for the service. I too didn't find it perfect for me but I tried to accept it as is and enjoy it for what it did while I kept searching for a platform that works for me.

It investigated a few programs, heck...several, and finally found a system that I feel is exactly what I need. It's such a good fit for me I would say that if I had the talent to create a platform for my GTD system I wouldn't change a thing from what I now have.

When it comes to asking Evernote to make changes I encourage you to send them a suggestion, because I believe the end user often had great ideas, and be prepared for them to not find your suggestions as wonderful as you think they are.

Lastly, specific tweaks to a system sure make implementing GTD a pleasure and the most important thing is to grasp GTD and you can make it work on any platform...from paper to the highest tech system.

 

[mak2011]

GTD does not recommend that you attach a due date to anything outside of your calender. so even if evernote had a built in reminder function GTD advises against using it

 

[TesTeq]

Awarness-enhancing piece of data.

GTD does not recommend that you attach a due date to anything outside of your calender. so even if evernote had a built in reminder function GTD advises against using it

I think you can attach due dates to Projects and Next Actions.

If these actions are not elements of your hard-landscape (calendar), the "due date" information is just an awarness-enhancing piece of data - not an action trigger.

 

[mak2011]

Tes, I’m always honored to get tips and pointers from the more seasoned GTDers, so thank you for that.
As for evernote and reminders, I actually tweeted a corny tweet about a year ago to their CEO saying something like " alerts are to evernote as peanut butter is to jelly" or something like that! I've yet to receive a reply from him though (H'mm, I wonder why?!)

Because I moved my entire system to evernote I was forced to minimize my use of alerts and reminders since that had to be done through outlook. However, now I'm actually quite convinced that eliminating reminders from your system, other than your calendar, makes much more sense from a productivity perspective because:

a- The use of reminders in addition to calendared items obscures the truly important things that needs attention (this is the obvious drawback as David Allen frequently emphasis)

b- A more discrete, and arguably more detrimental, downside to using alerts particularly for action items is that it becomes a backdoor for ABC/Priority based flagging of actions.
When I was using alerts for actions I sparsely looking at my action lists and instead relied heavily on the action reminders I created (my thinking went as follows: if the action was important I would have flagged it)

So for now, I’ll stick to the tickler system (digital and physical) and see how it works out

 

[enyonam]

Evernote works as a GTD tool ... for me

I wanted to add my voice here as a very happy Evernote GTD'er.

Personally, I think Evernote should maintain their vision and not be swayed by a small subgroup of users ... whether they be GTDers or not. I wouldn't want another small group of users influencing Evernote with functionality that suits only them, and makes the system more cumbersome for me.

And I think one of the skills we build as GTDers is making our ecosystems work, regardless of the tools we have at hand. I don't think we have to all use the same tools .. infact, I don't think that would work. I like the freedom that DAC allows for different vendors to build or customise tools as they see fit. I've used 3 or 4 different tools for my list manager to date, and if my environment changes, I'd like to be able to switch my ecosystem.

Having said all that, I really like my Evernote setup. I don't want the calendar in Evernote ... I am sure other calendar applications would be better than what Evernote comes up with. If a vendor decides to put it in the trunk I might consider it but Google Calendar work well for me.

I have only one item on my Evernote wish list and that is the ability to navigate from a note to the related notebook.

FYI - I've written more about my Evernote setup on my blog: www.enyonam.com.
And I'll have to write a post about how I deal with dates in Evernote.

 

[fokke.kooistra]

I wanted to add my voice here as a very happy Evernote GTD'er.

+1 on that one.

I have been using Evernote as my primary GTD system ever since they started. It is for me the most versatile and powerful way of managing my tasks and projects.

 

[Matthew1]

Phill Libin on Evernote Task management

I wouldn't mind having some sort of built in reminder system and link with a calendar in Evernote.

Evernote's CEO is giving us some hope in this interview
http://lifehacker.com/5982051/im-phil-libin-ceo-of-evernote-and-this-is-how-i-work

Now one of the questions is ”What’s your favorite to-do list manager?”

Phil Libin answers ”You know, I don’t actually have one. I use Evernote, which isn’t particularly great for to-dos yet. Yet.”

So it seems to me some new features are to be expected.

PS: Fokke and Enyonam, I will now check out your blogs!

 

[fokke.kooistra]

PS: Fokke and Enyonam, I will now check out your blogs!

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your post. And great to see that we both live in Europe. Maybe we can meet up someday to exchange ideas about GTD and Evernote.