Incremental start of GTD

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wbc

Registered
Hi there!

I have a question about the incremental start of a GTD system:

What is more important to get as a habit, maintaining the project list or the
next actions lists?

To explain it a little, I had a little discussion with a friend and he had the
opinion that it is better to facilitate the habit of maintaining NA/ToDo-Lists
first. I think it is better to have the habit of maintaining project lists first
because you have at least all you projects gathered in one place.

What is your opinion? Would you agree that having a project list is the first
step and having todos or next actions tied to the projects is the second step
in an incremental approach of starting GTD?

Hope to receive interesting insights...
-wbc
 
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ggoldman

Registered
I don't see how you short cut it. It seems to me people have traditional to do lists, which according to GTD don't really work. I think to really do a jump start of GTD like the book says you need lists of projects, next actions and waiting for as a beginning point.
 
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tfadams

Registered
I would say the habit to get into would be doing a regular Weekly Review. The first (possibly most important) step of getting everything out of your head and onto paper will drive the Projects list and NA lists. The Weekly Review will tie your NAs to Projects (or vice versa). Keep in mind that a Weekly Review may need be done more often when you are getting into GTD.
 
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Brent

Registered
Which is better, eating right or exercising? Should I first stop eating junk food, or should I get into an exercise program?

:) Seriously, both are important. What does it matter which is more important? We need to do them both anyway.
 
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sdann

Registered
When you create a project list, right away list the next action for each project. I don't see how you can create one without the other. At that time you will list your waiting fors and your someday/maybes. It is impossible to say which to focus on first.
 
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kewms

Registered
I agree with other posters: it's not a terribly meaningful question, since until you have both you aren't really doing GTD.

However, the NA list is the one I carry with me and review most often, and the one that would take the most time to recreate if it were lost. That says to me that the NA list takes the most load off my brain, and therefore gives the biggest boost for the effort expended.

The Project list, in contrast, usually only gets reviewed once a week or so. The big, high priority projects tend to capture substantial mind share whether I review the list or not, and I could recapture most of the lower priority projects by simply walking around my house and office for a few minutes.

Put another way, I'm unlikely to forget that I have a 20,000 word report due in a few weeks. I could easily forget that the NA for that report is to review my outline to check the status of the key components. Hence, the NA list is more critical.

Katherine
 
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kewms

Registered
Brent;56147 said:
Which is better, eating right or exercising? Should I first stop eating junk food, or should I get into an exercise program?

:) Seriously, both are important. What does it matter which is more important? We need to do them both anyway.
Click to expand...

Because radically changing your diet and your lifestyle at the same time is extremely difficult. Incremental changes are easier to implement, and incremental success provides motivation for further changes. Also, a given individual might have dietary (or exercise) habits that are either particularly awful or particularly easy to fix.

Similarly in the productivity context, small steps are better than no steps. Minor improvements are still better than the status quo.

Katherine
 
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MrProactive

Registered
Easy Does It

I agree with Katerine; you have to have small victories in order to keep moving forward with lots of things, be it weight loss or GTD.

Do * something * (one or the other) to get started; get it in place; make it a habit, then grow it. If you go overboard up front, you will get frustrated and quit.

sdann has another point; kind of a "double bonus" -- if you do make your Project List, ponder the Next Action right then and there and put that on your Next Action list.

However, again, K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple {what * is * the last "S" for .... I always forget) is the best bet.
 
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abhay

Registered
Start processing

I would like to differ a bit here. But trust your intuition and heed this only if it sounds good to you.

Unless you process something, you won't know whether it's a project or an action or an actionable at all. And probably action lists and project lists are incomplete without each other. Having an action list consistent with the project list which does not reflect all the projects (for the time being) is IMHO better than one ambitious list without the other.

So my suggestion would be to set up an inbox, and start collecting "stuff". (I hope you know what DA calls "stuff"; if not, please write back!) Start developing the habit to write down anything that may be important to you, whether actionable or not, and put it in the inbox.

Allot some time (may be half an hour to begin with) every day for processing if you don't get unscheduled free time. Go through the processing of items in your inbox(es). Let it generate whatever it generates: projects and associated next actions, standalone next actions, waiting-for's, reference material, appointments, and so on.

Since we are doing it incrementally, for a couple of weeks (or months), it won't reflect the complete inventory of commitments and other things that you have. But eventually it will. Also allocate some time at least every week to process items in your current system in the GTD way so that they are appropriately classified as above.

That will be some athletics working from these new action lists and your current system, but it will reduce with time.

Hope I make sense,

Abhay
 
TesTeq

TesTeq

Registered
No, I would not agree. Period.

wbc;56144 said:
Would you agree that having a project list is the first step and having todos or next actions tied to the projects is the second step in an incremental approach of starting GTD?
Click to expand...

No, I would not agree. Period. It does not make any sense to have Projects without Next Actions (except for Someday/Maybe projects) and there is no way to have Next Actions if you have not defined Projects with their successful outcomes.
 
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scott.stephen

Guest
Hello,

More important? NA or project? Neither. I do not believe that even the most basic system can function without both. They go hand-in-hand. How could you possibly know what should go on your NA context lists if you don’t even know what projects you have going? Ok, maybe the non-project, single action items, but who only has those?

I would have to say the only thing incremental about GTD is reading the book. Unless of course you are a speed reader and get though it in one go.

I guess there is one more thing that could be “incremental” about GTD, and that is the evolution from simply implementing the system, understanding the system, putting together “your” system, and mastering your system.

Regards,
Scott STEPHEN
 
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wbc

Registered
First of all thank you for the posts so far.

Kathrin you wrote:
kewms;56150 said:
I agree with other posters: it's not a terribly meaningful question, since until you have both you aren't really doing GTD.
...
Click to expand...
To explain it a little more in detail, I totally agree with you, in order to have a
GTD system you need both NAs and project lists. But my standpoint was, if
you put the GTD methodology aside, it is more important to have a project
list. Why? Because if you maintain a complete project list you actually see all
your commitments in one place and have a feeling about the volume and time
you have to commit to more projects. Or am I totally wrong?

If you then add NAs lists after having all projects in one place gives you the
power of GTD.

But in the step of learning GTD it is very important to identify and clarify the
projects (as GTD defines a project) first - right? Or do you think that you can
not untie the project list from NA lists and the other way round? So to start
maintaining the lists it is better to have an incomplete project list and a set
of NA lists and adding more and more projects to the system over time?

By the way the discussion with my friend started after we both listened to the
GTD connect audio file "Getting started - projects" (I think this was the title).
If you are a connect member you could listen to this audio file and tell me if
I understood it completely wrong.

-wbc
 
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Brent

Registered
kewms;56151 said:
Because radically changing your diet and your lifestyle at the same time is extremely difficult. Incremental changes are easier to implement, and incremental success provides motivation for further changes.
Click to expand...

Where in my post did I say otherwise?
 
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Tom Shannon

Registered
wbc;56144 said:
Hi there!

I have a question about the incremental start of a GTD system:

What is more important to get as a habit, maintaining the project list or the
next actions lists?
Click to expand...

WBC,

There is an entire chapter in the book about how to get started with GTD. Basically you throw everything into a basket before you even decide what a project or action even is.

Too many people try to shortcut this step. I, personally, think that this is a great way to guarantee failure. Take a day and do it the way its described and you will get off on the right foot. Do it another way at your own peril.

Tom S.
 
K

kewms

Registered
wbc;56163 said:
But my standpoint was, if
you put the GTD methodology aside, it is more important to have a project
list. Why? Because if you maintain a complete project list you actually see all
your commitments in one place and have a feeling about the volume and time
you have to commit to more projects. Or am I totally wrong?
Click to expand...

As I said in my original post, I work from my NA list and find it far more critical. YMMV.

Katherine
 
S

sdann

Registered
wbc;56163 said:
By the way the discussion with my friend started after we both listened to the
GTD connect audio file "Getting started - projects" (I think this was the title).
If you are a connect member you could listen to this audio file and tell me if
I understood it completely wrong.
Click to expand...

Where on the Connect site can I find that? I believe I listened to it already, but let me know where so I can relisten.

My belief was always that you want to get your committments down first. Whether or not those are projects are dependent on whether the committment has more than one step. DA also states that you should right away id an NA for each new project you are adding to your active project list. Hence, projects really should not be on your active project list (in an ideal GTD world) if they don't have an NA. Therefore, I have to agree with Katherine, if we are putting it down to the most basic of all.
 
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dragynox

Registered
incremental implementation

If you're going to do an incremental approach to GTD (as I am), you should use the various levels that David talks about in the book.
Runway - current actions (daily)
10,000 ft - current projects (weekly)
20,000 ft - current responsibilities (monthly)
30,000 ft - 1-2 year goals (quarterly)
40,000 ft - 3-5 year goals (annually)
50,000+ ft - career, purpose, lifestyle (annually+)

Get the Runway and 10,000 ft working. That is hard enough. Then after you have these as a habit, tackle the more life direction type decisions that come out of the 20,000 ft and higher areas.

I agree with pretty much everybody else though that you can't effectively do the Runway stuff without the 10,000 ft stuff. the first step for me in GTD was task and projects. The other stuff can get added on once you've got these two working.

Jake
 
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