Is there a good, universal way to identify next actions for complex tasks?

andrew732

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I've been a GTD acolyte for a few years now and am very happy with it. There is one major nagging problem I have though, and it seems to be rarely if ever mentioned in GTD discussions.

In my opinion, the main source of GTD's power is the idea of having all your projects and life goals, no matter how complex, distilled at all times into one or more bite-sized next actions. However, I often find it difficult to identify bite-sized next actions for projects. In some cases, it takes more work to identify next actions than to actually perform the actions.

A good example is a book reading project i.e., I want to read book X, which has 1000 pages. It's obviously a major project, but what next action can I take to move forward toward the overall goal? I typically have next actions like "read book X for 15 minutes" but that is very unsatisfying and seems to defeat the main purpose of GTD, especially when most of my complex projects end up with next actions like "work on project Y for 20 minutes."

What do others think about this issue? Can anyone give examples of a better next action for something like the book reading project? Thanks for your help.
 

vbampton

Administrator
andrew732;113000 said:
especially when most of my complex projects end up with next actions like "work on project Y for 20 minutes.

I would suggest "work on project Y for 20 minutes" isn't really a next action. What do you have to DO? If you haven't decided that yet, you could spend the first 10 minutes of the 20 minute slot just trying to figure that out.

When I work on an ongoing project, I set my next action at the end of the previous slot, almost like a bookmark to remind me where to pick up when I next continue working on it. It's easier to figure out that real next action when you're actually working on the project.

For the book reading project, I'd break it down into chapters or sections, and cross it off when I've completed that section. That means I may take 3 or 4 'bites' at each next action before I can cross it off, but that's ok. It's more satisfying than "read for 15 minutes"
 

Folke

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Bite-sized is not an exact measurement

You need to break it down to a size that you can understand and act upon without hesitation. No need to break it down further. If you can understand perfectly what you need to do if you just write "read all books on shelf A", then that's all you need to write. No need to make it complicated. But if you do not know where to start, then it's different. Break it down until you begin to see what you need to do in concrete terms.

Typically, we can handle quite large bites when it is about something that we are very familiar with, but often need to break it down much more when we are on unfamiliar territory.

(Side note: reading a book is something that I would not make a project of, and usually not even make a task of unless it is something that needs to get read for a particular purpose. Reading is not an end in itself in my world. But I do read a lot, mainly non-fiction, just for fun.)
 

mcogilvie

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andrew732;113000 said:
I typically have next actions like "read book X for 15 minutes" but that is very unsatisfying and seems to defeat the main purpose of GTD, especially when most of my complex projects end up with next actions like "work on project Y for 20 minutes."

What do others think about this issue? Can anyone give examples of a better next action for something like the book reading project? Thanks for your help.

People differ, but I have found that "next actions" like "exercise for 15 minutes" or "read 50 pages" or even "process email inbox" suck the life out of me more often than not. Either I process my email today or not. I do most days. If it gets too bad (I'm not revealing my average inbox size!), I will certainly do it. If I have a book to read for book club, I might have a next action like "Finish book for Book Club 2-19" that starts up again the day after I check it off. I'm not committing to 20 minutes or 20 pages- why should I? Do I fail because I only read for 15 minutes or 15 pages? I might not even finish the book if I don't like it enough. For real projects, the most important thing is to have a good next action. Because I do a lot of technical writing, good next actions are things like "add equations to section 2" or "get latest references on large-N equivalence" or "revise abstract." I may do more at one sitting, but these provide me with a way back into the project, a bookmark. In the same way, writing a new next action when I am done with a project for the time being forces me to evaluate the status of the project at a time I have a good, detailed view of it.
 

JerseyDoug

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I basically agree with the previous comments. I do have a question, however. Is the book reading for pleasure or do you have to write a review or similar?

If the former, then I would agree with those who would not characterize it as a project. IF the later, then you have deadlines and I would work backwards from there. Having said that, if it is work related with a deadline, 15 minutes here and there probably isn't going to cut it. (I am speaking for myself, YMMV and should.)

Personally, pleasure/self edification reading, is something I would schedule for a particular time of day. But that is me.
 

Mike L

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andrew732;113000 said:
What do others think about this issue? Can anyone give examples of a better next action for something like the book reading project?
Sometimes GTD seems more like literature than a process and people seem to come up with different interpretations of what GTD "means", buttressing their arguments with quotes from the source (David Allen). Anyway, that's a lead-in to saying that my take is different from what others have posted.

To me it sounds like GTD is working perfectly for you, giving all it can. You have visibility over what you need to be doing now. You're not going to sit down to read that 1000-page book while neglecting filing your tax returns or making reservations for your vacation this summer because you know all the things that you can be working on.

I also find that sometimes next actions are mundane and repetitive. If my project is to paint my house there are steps like pick colors, evaluate doing it myself vs hiring a contractor, etc. Checking them off and moving to the next action feels like I'm making progress. But at some point (if I paint it myself) the next action boils down to "paint a wall!" and its going to be stuck on that for a while.

As opposed to an earlier poster, I'd say that reading a book is a project to me. It means it comes up at my weekly reviews and I pause for a moment to think about whether given what I have on my plate whether its really something I should be actively doing or if it should move to a someday/maybe item. And since I review my someday/maybe items at the weekly review its a chance to think about it in light of other diversions; perhaps I shelve it for a while to do something else on my lists, or perhaps I add some other entertainment items to the list for variety's sake.

If you feel like something is missing perhaps this is an issue for a higher level review. Maybe you want more variety in your life, spending time reading and working on your regular projects isn't sufficiently fulfilling. But that's not the GTD system, its the things you've identified as your current projects & goals.
 

mcogilvie

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andrew732;113000 said:
In some cases, it takes more work to identify next actions than to actually perform the actions.

I wanted to come back to this point. Sometimes we just have things we want to do: exercise, brush our teeth, read a book. "Oral hygiene" doesn't sound like a very good project, and it's not a very good 50K goal ("I want to die with no regrets about my teeth."). Most of us have a toothbrush in our bathroom, and we use it. It's a habit, but the presence of the toothbrush in the bathroom is a reminder. If we want to read a book, we may put at our bedside or by a favorite chair and read it at appropriate times. It's ok to do this: we want to have habits and patterns that makes our lives easier and more pleasant. It's not about lists. The list is just a tool to get stuff off your mind and in most cases to get it done. If it helps you to put "read book" on a list, do it. If it isn't helpful to you, try something else. I don't want to spend more time managing my reading list than I do reading.
 

andrew732

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Thank you to everyone. I've enjoyed reading and reflecting on what you have to say. Here are some specific comments and questions I have:

vbampton; said:
I would suggest "work on project Y for 20 minutes" isn't really a next action. What do you have to DO?.

mcogilvie; said:
People differ, but I have found that "next actions" like "exercise for 15 minutes" or "read 50 pages" or even "process email inbox" suck the life out of me more often than not.

Exactly. My problem is identifying good next actions that are concrete, specific, and that minimize my resistance to doing them. Even if the problem is shifted to identifying a next action that's about planning, then I find next actions end up looking like: "spend 20 minutes planning a next action for project X." Maybe I'm just not accepting the fact that at some point, so little is known about a project that the next action must necessarily be no more specific than "brainstorm approaches to project X for 20 minutes." That still doesn't seem to cover things like the book reading project though.

JerseyDoug; said:
Is the book reading for pleasure or do you have to write a review or similar?

mcogilvie; said:
Sometimes we just have things we want to do: exercise, brush our teeth, read a book. "Oral hygiene" doesn't sound like a very good project, and it's not a very good 50K goal ("I want to die with no regrets about my teeth.").

The book is for pleasure, but under my interpretation of GTD, I would consider this book reading project as fundamentally different from something like brushing teeth. If I didn't place "project 37: read book X" under the control of the GTD system, I would never get around to doing it and I would be disappointed that it was not something that I was able to accomplish in life. For me, brushing teeth falls outside the scope of GTD simply because it's something that I don't care to manage with GTD.

On that note, it's clearly impossible to micromanage every aspect of life with GTD. If we tried to do that, we would have next actions like "type one character on the keyboard", "inhale", "type another character on the keyboard", "inhale", etc. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, I'm just clarifying my view on the "pleasure and/or mundane" items vs. "work and/or important items" issue.

Mike L; said:
If you feel like something is missing perhaps this is an issue for a higher level review. Maybe you want more variety in your life, spending time reading and working on your regular projects isn't sufficiently fulfilling. But that's not the GTD system, its the things you've identified as your current projects & goals.

I see what you mean, but on the contrary, I'm very happy with the projects and goals that I've identified. The problem seems to be with (my implementation of) the GTD system itself.
 

Folke

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andrew732;113028 said:
If I didn't place "project 37: read book X" under the control of the GTD system, I would never get around to doing it and I would be disappointed that it was not something that I was able to accomplish in life. For me, brushing teeth falls outside the scope of GTD simply because it's something that I don't care to manage with GTD.

I think David Allen phrased it well. Although I cannot remember his exact words, the essence is that if something keeps bugging you, then it constitutes "stuff" that needs to be collected and processed etc. So, if there is something about your reading or toothbrushing habits or whatever that won't stop grinding in your head, write it down and treat it as per GTD. There simply is no objective definition of what belongs in the GTD system. It is highly personal and subjective. Personally I have no worries about my teeth or my books or my showers or my food, so these things are quite absent from my lists. Others may have tasks for all of those. And it follows the same rule. If it worries you, write it down.

andrew732;113028 said:
My problem is identifying good next actions that are concrete, specific, and that minimize my resistance to doing them. Even if the problem is shifted to identifying a next action that's about planning, then I find next actions end up looking like: "spend 20 minutes planning a next action for project X." Maybe I'm just not accepting the fact that at some point, so little is known about a project that the next action must necessarily be no more specific than "brainstorm approaches to project X for 20 minutes."

Why do you need to specify the duration? You could write just "Brainstorm" or "Draft some possible next actions". If you find it hard to draft next actions straight away, you might want to try first listing some of the problems or worries or uncertainties that you feel make it hard to get moving with this project, and then see if you can convert some of those questions into next actions (i.e. define what you need to do to solve and eliminate them). And obviously, unless you have already done so, you should define the desired final outcome of the project - not in terms of "what you will have finished doing" but in terms of "what the state of affairs will be" (regardless of how you did it).

And I'd like to point out - for better and for worse - that this is neither the beginning nor the end. The same situation can arise again during the course of the project. You may run dry of actions anytime, and need to rinse and repeat. This is something a thorough weekly review will safeguard against, but you should probably do it as soon as you notice that a project is out of next actions.
 

Gardener

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I'm puzzled about the problem with "spend X time reading book Y." I suppose that there are different ways to cut that work:

- Spend an evening reading book Y.
- Spend two hours reading something from Current Book Stack.
- Clear schedule for a reading evening.

but it all adds up to more or less the same thing. At least, it does to me--are any of the above any less unsatisfying than the others? I'm not saying that it's Wrong to find it unsatisfying, I just don't understand, and I like to understand things.

For some projects I do indeed often have actions like, "Spend twenty minutes brainstorming about blah." If the problem seems to be one of kicking my thoughts out of a stall, I might try different things:

- Spend twenty minutes writing a fake blog post about blah.
- Spend twenty minutes explaining blah to the duck.(*)
- Think about blah when I walk to lunch.

(* Explaining to the duck is an exercise intended to take advantage of the fact that often when you explain something to someone, you realize that in putting the thoughts into words, you've solved your own problem. Someone realized that the other person is not actually necessary to the process. And they had a rubber duck on their computer monitor, all yellow and squeaky and ready to listen. Or something like that.)

But sometimes the problem isn't that I can't think of an action, but that the actions are rejected before they're fully formed, because they somehow feel insufficient or too small. I'm trying to think of an example, but apparently my brain is rejecting examples because they feel insufficient. :)

Well, OK, one example: Let's say that I have to program a really messy report, and I know that it's going to require a whole lot of searches and processing, and I can't quite get my mind around that, and I know that it will be slow and I'll have to find a way to speed it up and I can't get my mind around that. And I just stare at it and don't know what to do. I want to sketch out a big tidy battle plan, but I'm not ready.

But I realize that for every report I write, I do some standard things--call it, spool it, return it, blah. I know that I'll be copying that stuff from the last report I wrote. So that's my next action:

-- Create report skeleton for ScareyReport

So I've got an action. Yay! I work it, and I have a report that's identical to the last report I wrote. It runs. Yay? Now what? Ah!

-- Change report titles in ScareyReport

Action! Yay! Now I have a report identical to the old report, with titles for the new one. Now what? Ah!

-- Create data arrays for ScareyReport.

I don't have the faintest idea how to fill those arrays with data, but I've got 'em. And now the next actions start to flow:

-- Write code to fill ScareyReport data arrays with fake data.
-- Present fake data arrays on ScareyReport.

Now I've got a report that shows stuff! It's fake stuff, but it's stuff.

So I'm sneaking up, step by step, on the actual hard work of putting real data in the report. And each step is easy. And quite often I find that the steps stay easy, even when I get to the part that I thought was the hard part.

And I got myself moving with a couple of really stupid actions. I could have said, "What's the point of duplicating code that just produces a report I already have?" And, "What's the point of putting the titles for Report A on Report B?" And, "What's the point of printing fake data?" But there was a point. They got me in motion.

I'm not sure if I'm actually addressing the original question, because I'm still not sure about the problem. Is the problem the prosaic nature of many of the tasks?
 

cfoley

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I don't have actions for reading but I tend to do it in the evening when I start running out of energy or enthusiasm for other actions. If you have a braindead list maybe it would be a good place to park a reading reminder. Word it so that it sounds attractive to you. I might write the action as "Allow yourself to unwind with a book". I wouldn't cross it off as done but eventually I might develop a reading habit and no longer need it on my list.
 

SiobhanBR

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Making your next action attractive

There is some great discussion in this thread. I'm one of those who would not see reading a book as a project - I just love to read. I do have lists of books I want to buy/read etc but the actual reading just happens: at lunch, on the couch during a game, while my son is having a bath, before bed with a glass of wine etc.

So - why do you want to read? When do you enjoy reading? When do you have time? What are your ideal surroundings?

I think it was hinted at up there but another option is to get it off your next action list and actually put it on your calendar. Make an appointment with yourself to read for half an hour or an hour or whatever. It would stay on your project list to make sure you've got a next action or calendared item.

Some thoughts that may or may not apply to your life situation but may give you ideas:
- get up half an hour early and read while drinking a coffee (I'm longing for the spring days when I can do this out on the porch!)
- put on some favourite classical music, pour a glass of your favourite potion and curl up in front of a fire/window
- use that half hour after you get home from work but before everyone else does to read and start your evening routine afterwards
- plan a slow-cooker/roast meal once or twice a week and read while food is cooking
- take your book to the Laundromat and read while the machines are working
- take a vacation day and just stay home to read - make your favourite lunch and enjoy
- go to bed fifteen minutes early and read

Another thought - are you sure you've got a book you want to read? It took me many years to finally be ok with not finishing a book I've started, but life is too short to read (for pleasure) something you are not enjoying!
 

Folke

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And double-check your desired outcome again ...

If "Read book X" is a something that you will do (an action), then what is "Will have read book X"? Is that an outcome? In my opinion, definitely no. It is still an action, expressed in the future perfect tense. I am sure there are those who disagree with me about that, but the distinction between action and outcome is classical and well documented.

So if you want to be fussy, and really want to define your desired outcomes properly - which sometimes can be very challenging but also very rewarding - what is the desired outcome of having read that book? What will you be? How will the world be different? What is it you are trying to achieve by reading that book? When you have defined that, you are much better off. Let's say your desired outcome, after having given it some consideration, is to "be able to discuss classical Italian political ideas with average Italians at any time." then you have a basis for defining (as tasks) which particular books you should read as a part of that project. And perhaps some tasks that are not reading tasks, too, e.g. lectures, debates, relevant clubs or associations etc. Or maybe it is all part of a language exercise? To improve language X in order to ... something? Or maybe the desired outcome is to put you to sleep quickly? Or impress or provoke fellow train riders? How to choose a book, if any, and get started with it, will depend very much on the kind of outcome you have in mind.

But this thread was not about books specifically. It was about defining next actions generally. A clear view of a desired outcome can often be a great help.
 

cwoodgold

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I assume you use a bookmark so you can continue reading from where you left off. I usually just leave the book lying around in the place I'm likely to be when I'm likely to have time to read it. You might try various ways of wording a next action, for example just "read book X" (without specifying for how long), i.e. start at your bookmark and read until you decide to stop. I find that specifying a length of time usually makes an action unattractive. You can try out various wordings and see what appeals to you. Also play around with what context you list it in and what sorts of situations tend to lead to having time for reading. I often read while eating, while waiting for a bus, etc. Try to word your next action so that it leads you to visualize yourself opening up the book and picking up the bookmark.

For a book, just "read book X" should be specific enough if you already have a bookmark in it. For a project, "work on project X for 20 minutes" is likely not specific enough. Do you know exactly what you'll do first? I like to identify the first few seconds of what I would consider actually getting something done on the project. For example, maybe when I re-start work on that project that day I would first spend a minute or so reviewing my notes and navigating to the right directory and file on the computer and reading part of the file, then I would start typing something useful. The typing counts as making progress. The reviewing notes etc. is also useful but in a sense doesn't count because if that was all I did, I'd have to re-do it again the next time I worked on that project. So my next action would be about the first few seconds of typing, e.g. "start making chart of XYZ" (or "continue ..."). I only have to mention starting, because once I start I'm involved in the project and will naturally tend to continue working on it. Just before leaving work in the evening I can easily and quickly write down some actions like that, and they save time in the morning because then I know exactly where to start and can jump right in. I visualize myself doing those first few seconds of real progress. That's the image the wording of the next action should invoke.
 

andrew732

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Thanks again for all the replies. I suppose the answer to my original question is probably no, and like many aspects of GTD, a lot of the art in identifying next actions depends on trusting our intuition.

The consensus here seems to be that at least in cases where it is difficult to come up with a more specific action, there is nothing inherently wrong or un-GTD-like with next actions of the "work on project X for 20 minutes" type. Like others, I tend to have considerable resistance to performing next actions of that type, but this can be alleviated by making the next action more attractive if not more concrete. Some techniques for doing that are clarifying the desired outcome and phrasing the action in a more inviting manner.
 

cwoodgold

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andrew732;113069 said:
The consensus here seems to be that at least in cases where it is difficult to come up with a more specific action, there is nothing inherently wrong or un-GTD-like with next actions of the "work on project X for 20 minutes" type.

No, I don't think that's exactly right. I think in such cases, the next action could read something like, "Identify next action for project X" or "Brainstorm about project X"; probably not just "work on project X", and probably
not specifying a length of time. There is something inherently un-GTD-like with "work on project X"; and the more you feel resistance to working on a next-action worded like that, the more un-GTD-like it is.

If you do write "work on project X for 20 minutes" and if you do actually do that work, how do you actually spend the first few seconds or minutes? If it were me, likely I would spend about 10 or so seconds thinking about the question "now, what am I actually going to do in project X?", then go to the computer with a sense of purpose, perhaps just to find a file containing my previous notes to myself about the project, or perhaps with a clear idea of what actual work I'm about to do. The GTD idea is to do those few second of purposeful thinking ahead of time, and instead of writing "work on project X", to write "review my notes in computer file AAA on project X and then work on it" or "add if-statement to XXX subroutine" or something.

If it's going to be more than about two minutes of thinking (the two-minute rule!), then the next action would be something like "write mind-map about project X" or "go for a walk and think about project X" or "write list of pros and cons of different approaches to project X" or something. Not just "work on project X". Not even "decide which method to use for project X". If you don't need to do anything else before deciding, just decide while you're writing the next action, and write "use method A on project X". If you do need to spend time thinking, then still write a physical action, that being whatever you would be physically doing while thinking. If you need to sleep on it, you can write a tentative decision, put a note in your tickle file to review the decision the following day, and leave it off your next-actions until then. The note in the tickle file could be "Write next action to use method A on project X (or decide to use method B instead)".

The only time I think it would be consistent with GTD to write "work on project X" is if you know clearly exactly what you're going to do on project X (a single physical next action); you're not at risk of forgetting it; it springs to mind immediately when you read those words; and you don't feel resistance to working on the project when it's worded that way. But if that's the case, why not write the actual physical action? I think for you, those conditions don't hold.

Also, most people may think they're not going to forget, but actually more time than they expect might pass before they do it and the image may be less clear in their mind, requiring a few seconds to retrieve it, leading to resistance to doing the action. However, with the specific case of reading a book, just "read book X" can be OK (provided you know where the book is and have a bookmark already at the appropriate page to start at). You might not need the more specific "pick up book X from left end of 3rd shelf and start reading at top of left page where red bookmark is, even if I may have already read part of that page". (Or you might need information like that! What if you start feeling unsure about whether there's more than one bookmark in the book and whether you know which one is the one to start at? That could lead to resistance.) But with the project, you probably do need something more specific. (With books, I sometimes use the position of the bookmark to indicate which part of the page I had stopped at.)

What I'm saying is similar to stuff in the "Getting Things Done" book. (Not exactly the same.) You might want to re-read it.
 

Gardener

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cwoodgold;113092 said:
Not even "decide which method to use for project X".

This is a good point. An action should be something that you know how to do, and can do. "Decide" is not necessarily something that you can do. "Write list of pros and cons of different approaches to project X" is something that you can do. It may or may not succeed in making the project progress, but you can do it.
 

Folke

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I generally dislike "for x minutes" as a means to define a task. This neither describes what kind of action you will perform nor what the outcome of it will be. All it does is mentally reserve some time for it, and puts a limit to the effort, but it does not tell you what or why.

At some stage you need to be clear about what you are actually going to do, clear enough to be able to do it. How you word that can be very personal. Perhaps the simple and ultimate test is this: Does your wording actually propel you into focused work of the right kind? If so, all is fine. If not, if it makes you hesitate or feel uncomfortable about starting on it, then chances are you could do better if you improved your wording.

If the job is clear enough to me I tend to refrain from making it more complicated by breaking it into smaller pieces. I can handle some very large bites as long as they are easy to swallow. And I can keep chewing away at the task for weeks. No problem at all, in principle. But as soon as the job requires an analysis of what needs to be done, and this results in steps that I had not thought about and need to remember, and/or parts that need to be performed in different contexts (people, tools etc), that's when I begin to break it down into bite-sized chunks.

But quite often it is possible, and better, to keep some of the "tasks" outside of the main lists. As someone already mentioned, when you read a book you probably use a bookmark, so you do not need to duplicate this in your lists by chopping up the task. And when you write a document, you probably have all kinds of marks (questions marks, yellow color, questions, ideas, whatever) in the already drafted text and also an intended disposition (chapter names and ideas for the content) for what has not yet been drafted. So, no need to define a massive project with sub-projects etc in your lists for all the various chapters and sections etc. Enough to just list, in addition the the main "writing task", those tasks that are "external" or different (different context), e.g. to call someone for information.
 

Oogiem

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A slightly contrary opinion here. I frequently have actions like Spend x minutes on project Y on my lists. And they usually are repeating actions too. As in once I check them off they will reappear in my lists after some specified time.

Why? Because in my work a single next action may take a very long time to complete and I need the high of being able to check things off once in a while.

Here are current examples:

Spend 20 minutes winding bobbins for grey and black twill fabric. I have no idea how many I will eventually need, the winding is likely to take something like 20-30 hours over the course of the weaving project but I can't afford to dedicate a huge chunk of time for it so I break it down into smaller chunks. There is no smaller next action, I am either winding a bobbin or not so it really is the next action. It is actually in parallel with weaving as I can wind bobbins ahead of weaving but if I run out while weaving I have to stop and wind more before I can continue.

Or Spend half an hour weaving fabric. Depending on the length of warp and my time available for hobby activities just weaving the fabric may take me an elapsed time of 2-3 years. It has on occasion taken me 6 years to finish weaving enough yardage of one type of fabric to make the garment I planned.

Why do I have such hobby things on my lists? Because without that I'll either never do them, or get scattered and start many projects but never finish one. Using GTD for those things keeps me progressing and things getting completed.

I have had one action on my lists for 5 months now. It was get help to figure out the tie up problems on the big loom. Yesterday we had a Fiber guild meeting at our farm and with the help of 2 other weavers we were able to get a plan for the real next action. I didn't have enough experience to even create meaningful actions for correcting the problem. Now my next action is to reverse the tie up on the treadles. That is likely to take me many hours and will get done over the course of the next few months. To complete it I have to swap 64 tie up cords and re-tension them. If I get bogged down I'll change the action to something like Swap the tie up of 4 cords or swap the tie up on one treadle or whatever small chunk it takes to get me moving on the project.

I am actually using a variation of the x minutes on a book task right now. I am taking 2 college course and I have required reading that I am resisting doing. So I have actions like read chapter 3 in my biochemistry textbook with a due date of the day the test is. For another class I found it better to have actions like Spend 20 minutes on statistics problems. Whatever it takes to get the actions going is ok as far as I am concerned.
 

Gardener

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Folke;113101 said:
I generally dislike "for x minutes" as a means to define a task. This neither describes what kind of action you will perform nor what the outcome of it will be. All it does is mentally reserve some time for it, and puts a limit to the effort, but it does not tell you what or why.

But "X minutes" doesn't make it hard to also have what or why. "Spend X minutes inventorying fabric stash", for example, certainly has the what, and I know the why--I want to know what I have, and how many yards of each item, so that I can plan new sewing projects without measuring a bazillion lengths of fabric for the nth time. ("Not enough of that one. Not enough of that one. Not enough of...") But inventorying everything will take longer than I'm willing to take for one work session, so I want to remind myself to intermittently put some work into it.

I could instead phrase it as "inventory ten lengths of fabric" or "inventory one stack of fabric" but no matter how I phrase it, I'm dividing a task into bite-sized pieces.

Folke;113101 said:
If the job is clear enough to me I tend to refrain from making it more complicated by breaking it into smaller pieces. I can handle some very large bites as long as they are easy to swallow. And I can keep chewing away at the task for weeks.

This doesn't work for me, because it means that the status of all those tasks, and my goal for when I'd like to get them done, and ensuring that I make interim progress, all has to be in my head instead of my system. I'm juggling too many things in my head that way. I want the actions in my system to be things that I can start, finish, and check off. I want the actions to trigger me, rather than just be a list of the stuff that I'm working on. I may want them to ensure that progress is being made on a goal. Or that a habit is being formed. Or that a maintenance need is being taken care of.

For example, if I did my hour of inventorying fabric this week, then I'm on track with that goal, and I'll have a fully inventoried stash in not too long. Without that trigger, that goal might never get done.

As a second for example, if I checked off my weekly "spend one hour decluttering the house" action, then I know that I'm fulfilling that household maintenance goal. If I find after a few months that the house is getting cluttered again, then I know that I may need to give that task two hours. If I find that I spend that hour wandering around a tidy house wondering what to do, I know that I might be OK to bump down to an hour a month.

Now, one might argue that I can just assume that I'd see the house getting untidy, right? and that would be just a life maintenance thing that doesn't need writing down. One might argue that if one has no hoarder genes in the family. I've seen what happens if household maintenance isn't consciously planned and triggered, so I will plan and trigger.

I think that's what GTD is for. If something is working without thought or effort, you probably don't need to write actions for it. If you're driven to write actions for it, odds are that it's not working without thought or effort. You don't write an action for "brush teeth" if you do that automatically. But if you never developed a flossing habit, you might write an action when you try to start one. If you've finally accepted the advice to wear sunscreen every day, you might write an action. If you've always gotten the laundry done by throwing yesterday's clothes in the washer right next to the bathroom, you probably don't have an action for laundry. If you changed apartments and now the laundry is in the basement, you may need an action. And so on.

Folke;113101 said:
But quite often it is possible, and better, to keep some of the "tasks" outside of the main lists. As someone already mentioned, when you read a book you probably use a bookmark, so you do not need to duplicate this in your lists by chopping up the task.

But my problem isn't remembering where I left off, but triggering myself to resume the task.
 
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