Know what actually to do! What does doing look like???

[gtdstudente]

What's at stake/value: Intrinsically ('Controllable'), Extrinsically (Mostly controllable), Internally (Usually controllable/manageable), Externally ('Uncontrollables')?

Ps. Others [@Agendas, @Waiting For, etc. ] are best deemed as uncontrollable if one values one's peace and the peace of others?

 

[Matt_M]

GTD is a system for getting all of your obligations and intentions into a system, so you know you're not forgetting anything and you know what to work on at any given time. For getting organized, it is a great system.

However, what I found was that it doesn't help you do anything. It assumes you can just sit down and do the things on your list when you have time, as long as you know what you probably should be doing. My trouble has always been with getting myself to do things -- tackling difficult, boring, complex, or intimidating tasks, or just getting myself to work on anything at all.

GTD is more for busy people who want to get more done and feel less stressed about it, or are struggling with organizing what they have to do -- but it takes for granted that you have no problem doing the stuff once it's organized.

Your valued thoughts after reading this & suggestions??? thank you!

I will throw my two cents in. You are correct on all accounts, really. Perhaps the only thing that you stated that could be slightly incorrect, at least in a "it's half-right" sense, is your first premise. In fact, GTD is a methodology for getting things off of your mind and into a trusted system so that you can trust that you know what you're not doing.

However, semantics aside, what you have stated is a million-dollar problem: how to motivate yourself (or others) to do something you don't want to do? Unfortunately, there is no universally applicable answer yet. There are ideas like gamification, giving yourself rewards, pain/fear based motivation, rigorous discipline, etc. but everyone is different so there is no guarantee any one particular strategy will work.

In fact, I have seen people (myself included) use GTD as the ultimate procrastination tool. Re-shuffling things endlessly, switching systems / tools almost daily, and spending more time managing their work then actually doing the work itself. It's a phase I think most productivity enthusiasts go through until they realize that "perfection is the enemy of good enough" when their competition is beating them by simply "getting things done" rather than Getting Things Done (I am not bashing on GTD BTW, just to be clear).

I don't have any magic answers myself. Sometimes it is just fear that gets me to do things (e.g. becoming homeless, dying early/painfully, or going to jail) other times it is just the maturity of knowing that no problem ever solves itself by ignoring it in the first place (e.g. the laundry is not going to do itself and my teeth aren't going to be magically cleaned daily). There are some useful sayings that I like that I find somewhat motivating: "The best way to get ahead, is to get started", "Just do it", or "There's no time like the present". Your mileage may vary.

(Self-)motivation is one of the great questions of the ages. I am sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[René Lie]

I will throw my two cents in. You are correct on all accounts, really. Perhaps the only thing that you stated that could be slightly incorrect, at least in a "it's half-right" sense, is your first premise. In fact, GTD is a methodology for getting things off of your mind and into a trusted system so that you can trust that you know what you're not doing.

However, semantics aside, what you have stated is a million-dollar problem: how to motivate yourself (or others) to do something you don't want to do? Unfortunately, there is no universally applicable answer yet. There are ideas like gamification, giving yourself rewards, pain/fear based motivation, rigorous discipline, etc. but everyone is different so there is no guarantee any one particular strategy will work.

In fact, I have seen people (myself included) use GTD as the ultimate procrastination tool. Re-shuffling things endlessly, switching systems / tools almost daily, and spending more time managing their work then actually doing the work itself. It's a phase I think most productivity enthusiasts go through until they realize that "perfection is the enemy of good enough" when their competition is beating them by simply "getting things done" rather than Getting Things Done (I am not bashing on GTD BTW, just to be clear).

I don't have any magic answers myself. Sometimes it is just fear that gets me to do things (e.g. becoming homeless, dying early/painfully, or going to jail) other times it is just the maturity of knowing that no problem ever solves itself by ignoring it in the first place (e.g. the laundry is not going to do itself and my teeth aren't going to be magically cleaned daily). There are some useful sayings that I like that I find somewhat motivating: "The best way to get ahead, is to get started", "Just do it", or "There's no time like the present". Your mileage may vary.

(Self-)motivation is one of the great questions of the ages. I am sorry I can't be of more help.

Well said! And I'd like to add a great quote from @DavidAllen - "The way out is through"!

 

[mksilk2]

(Self-)motivation is one of the great questions of the ages. I am sorry I can't be of more help

It's the modern workplace that has created this self-motivation need. As David always says, if we crank widgets for a living then we have a clear KPI, make x number of widgets per hour or per day. As soon as that clarity of outcome has disappeared, if you are a knowledge worker, we now have to think about what 'complete' looks like, we enter a new world of self-determination or self-motivation to fix problems or create output. I echo what @Matt_M says. GTD is great at organising and getting 'stuff' off your mind into a trusted system. 'Doing' the work is up to us as individuals.

 

[DavidAllen]

Interesting dialogues. I'd like to remind you all that I didn't "invent" GTD. It was simply a recognition of what we do, to get things done. What do we want to have true (what does "done" mean)? What activity do I need to do to make that happen (what's the next action)? All the spin is just that--spin. HOW we do all that is up to the person, the situation, the project. This will still be true when we try to fly to Jupiter.

Thanks for playing in the GTD game.

 

[DavidAllen]

...and oh, by the way: I'm not a motivational guru nor a behavior change expert. I just discovered the game. How and if you want to play it is your job.

 

[Tom_Hagen]

I'd like to remind you all that I didn't "invent" GTD.

Penicillium mold existed before Fleming. But Fleming was needed...

 

[mksilk2]

Interesting dialogues. I'd like to remind you all that I didn't "invent" GTD. It was simply a recognition of what we do, to get things done. What do we want to have true (what does "done" mean)? What activity do I need to do to make that happen (what's the next action)? All the spin is just that--spin. HOW we do all that is up to the person, the situation, the project. This will still be true when we try to fly to Jupiter.

Thanks for playing in the GTD game.

Completely agree. You can’t blame GTD or any other ‘methodology’ if you don’t actually do the work…

 

[DKPhoto]

For us mere humans, we are left with just an extremely large, daunting task that can take hours of exhausting our mental resources to complete: solve computer science problem.

I am amused that "mere humans" can "solve computer science problems" - this mere human would certainly struggle with that!

I am photographer. It is a creative process that is difficult to break down into small steps. Choosing when to start is the first thing, as this requires me to go somewhere to create photos (I am a location photographer, not studio).

I've just returned from a sunrise photo shoot this morning, to create an image to send out to my email list. The first next action in the project "Create image to send out to my email list" was "Check Weather Forecast for coming week". The Next Action is the thing that gets you started, and for me this was the start of a commitment to reach the outcome. Once I am out there doing it though, there is no list - it's just me knowing what I need to do or trying things out.

I would imagine that solving a computer science problem would require a period of uninterrupted focus, so this mere human would need to have all my notifications turned off - that would be my next action. As I have multiple sources of potential notifications this would actually be a check list:
-Close email client
-Turn off phone
-Turn off notifications on Mac

Once you've done that then start solving... This all assumes that you are in the right place, have enough time, and have the energy to solve it, which are the precursors to "doing" in GTD.

If you were unable to find a solution in the time available, then the next action that you put on your list would then probably be something like Review Notes/Calculations/Project Support Material, so the next time you were able to have a focussed period on the project you can pick up where you left off relatively quickly.

That's the way this mere human would approach it, although I'm not sure I'd ever reach the outcome, so I'd probably put it on my Someday/Maybe or No Day/Never list (I think David calls that Trash).

 

[schmeggahead]

Enjoying this thread.

It assumes you can just sit down and do the things on your list when you have time, as long as you know what you probably should be doing. My trouble has always been with getting myself to do things

For me, there is a built-in motivation set of actions that occur in clarify:

• In order to determine my relationship to this captured item, imagining wild success related to what I captured gives me a sort of muscle memory of what completing it feels like, whether that wild success is "its just where it needs to be and I needed to finish the thinking on that" or it is added to my system (my system includes trash by the way).
• In order to determine the next physical, visible action, I have to see myself doing it and identify where I am and what other things need to be available. There is that same "I've already been there doing it in my mind" which means it is no longer a new scary experience.

I used to use a clarify sheet with the header "Imagine wild success" so I would focus on that first.

@Gardener mentioned clean out the garage which reminds me of how my 25 year block on cleaning the garage was solved. In a very old house where you've lived for over 30 years and it's been in the family for over 60, the accumulation can be daunting. There were three things that had to be discovered to move clean garage forward: 1. recognition that the aisle on one side of the garage was a primary entrance to the house and needed to be clear (it had a refrigerate and freezer that my spouse didn't want to move, 2. the floor was uneven and didn't drain out the overhead door, 3. the discovery that the floor was empty underneath (an 8 inch air gap, so basically our floor was a hammock). Until all those were addressed it was never going to be cleaned.

What gave me the focus to discover all of those? My strategy to address home projects: what did we see first thing in the morning and what did we see upon arriving home. Those areas were first. Gave me the head space on home projects to identify step one of the garage was a new floor.

Anyway, with dense thinking to be done, I need a clear head, limited areas to focus upon and clear negotiating time to agree on function of spaces.

Hope this helps,
Clayton.

If I had a million dollars, I'd be rich. - Bare Naked Ladies
If I gave you a million euros to do it, I could find out the next action and context from you. - David Allen

 

[Gardener]

A LONG RAMBLE:

It sounds like we're partly talking about problems that don't have a clear, straightforward path to an assured solution.

I feel that those can be addressed with GTD, just with Next Actions that are designed to encourage progress, rather than ones that steer progress in a clear obvious way.

Kinda Metaphor: If you want to grow pole beans, the actions aren't:

- Break seed coat.
- Break ground with stem.
- Grow a leaf.
- Grow another leaf.
- Extend tendril to support string.

Etc., etc.

Because those are actions for the bean plant, and you don't control the bean plant. All you can do is give the plant what it needs to do its thing, and hope it does that thing:

- Set up dripper for bean.
- Weave support strings.
- Plant three seeds.
- WAITING FOR plants with four true leaves.
- Choose the best plant and snip off the others.
- Train tendrils onto support strings.

For some tasks, all you can do is treat your brain like a plant, give it what it needs, and hope it does its thing. Because sometimes you don't control your brain.

Right now, I'm trying to solve the problem of why I can't seem to finish a piece of fiction that's short story length. Flash fiction, yes. A novel, yes. Short story? Nope. Can't get to the first draft of a short story that's a coherent beginning-to-end narrative.

So, I figure out a project:

Get a Short Story Written

- Whine to/get advice from (online writing group). (Already did this a few days ago. This helped me realize that I already knew the obvious thing to try first--a technique that had helped me out of several "stalls" in the novel.)
- Choose the failed story I'm most excited about. (Did that, too.)
- Send the fragments so far to favorite alpha reader. (Did that, too.)
- REPEAT EVERY THREE DAYS: Write a random scene in the context of the story. (Wrote the first draft of the first one yesterday...in the wrong story.)
- MID-COURSE CORRECTION: Realize that choosing ONE story doesn't work, even though choosing ONE novel idea worked. Choose a group.
- RESUME REPEATING
- WAITING FOR ten scenes.

I know me, and I know that writing problems get solved when I let myself write aimless scenes. Apparently I nevertheless needed some encouragement on this from more experienced peers. And then I needed the writing energy I get from my alpha reader. And I needed to realize that "write aimless scenes" requires more scope than a single short story allows.

Now, bolstered with those things, I'm going to try to write aimless scenes, which is a thing I enjoy. I've planted the seeds, installed the dripper, and set up the strings. When the plants have some true leaves (when I have some solid scenes) I'll try to train them up the strings (try to see what coherent whole they might eventually contribute to.). And at some point I'll choose the strongest "plant"--trying to make that choice at the beginning was premature.

 

[FocusGuy]

In fact, I have seen people (myself included) use GTD as the ultimate procrastination tool. Re-shuffling things endlessly, switching systems / tools almost daily, and spending more time managing their work then actually doing the work itself. It's a phase I think most productivity enthusiasts go through until they realize that "perfection is the enemy of good enough" when their competition is beating them by simply "getting things done" rather than Getting Things Done (I am not bashing on GTD BTW, just to be clear).

It is a very interesting point. I also noticed that. There is a strange effect with me and GTD. When everything is as perfect as possible sometime I can't choose really what to do. So I procrastinate. I often decide a good pause during my day and then When I come back I use 2 strategies.
The first one is to read my next action list decide on something I really need to do but saying to myself "I only will work on that 10 minutes" sometime ten minutes becomes 30 or more...

The second Strategie is to take altitude reading my horizons. This make my choices easier.
Most of the time if I procrastinate it is because it did not make as Meg said "the further thinking"
So I of do a daily little review just to be assured that on each project it is still the very next action. Things can evaluate at a glance. So I need to adapt my thinking.

 

[FocusGuy]

Interesting dialogues. I'd like to remind you all that I didn't "invent" GTD. It was simply a recognition of what we do, to get things done. What do we want to have true (what does "done" mean)? What activity do I need to do to make that happen (what's the next action)? All the spin is just that--spin. HOW we do all that is up to the person, the situation, the project. This will still be true when we try to fly to Jupiter.

Thanks for playing in the GTD game.

Romain Bisseret in France told me you said that to him years ago. I don't know if you did not "invent" GTD but what I am sure about is that you made an astonish and incredible coherent system with all that stuff. As I told him it totally changed my life in many ways and has a huge effect on how I evolute day by day, not only in my professional but also in my personal life...

I had a guitar teacher years ago. We spoke about Hendrix and what he brought to the guitarist world. He told me "some people just bring a stone into the wall and others bring a complete wall..." I Think like Hendrix you brought many walls at once an incredible system to humanity. GTD should be teached at school everywhere on the planet. The world would be better or lighter may be and people more in the reality.

So Thank you so much @DavidAllen

 

[gtdstudente]

Enjoying this thread.


For me, there is a built-in motivation set of actions that occur in clarify:

• In order to determine my relationship to this captured item, imagining wild success related to what I captured gives me a sort of muscle memory of what completing it feels like, whether that wild success is "its just where it needs to be and I needed to finish the thinking on that" or it is added to my system (my system includes trash by the way).
• In order to determine the next physical, visible action, I have to see myself doing it and identify where I am and what other things need to be available. There is that same "I've already been there doing it in my mind" which means it is no longer a new scary experience.

I used to use a clarify sheet with the header "Imagine wild success" so I would focus on that first.

@Gardener mentioned clean out the garage which reminds me of how my 25 year block on cleaning the garage was solved. In a very old house where you've lived for over 30 years and it's been in the family for over 60, the accumulation can be daunting. There were three things that had to be discovered to move clean garage forward: 1. recognition that the aisle on one side of the garage was a primary entrance to the house and needed to be clear (it had a refrigerate and freezer that my spouse didn't want to move, 2. the floor was uneven and didn't drain out the overhead door, 3. the discovery that the floor was empty underneath (an 8 inch air gap, so basically our floor was a hammock). Until all those were addressed it was never going to be cleaned.

What gave me the focus to discover all of those? My strategy to address home projects: what did we see first thing in the morning and what did we see upon arriving home. Those areas were first. Gave me the head space on home projects to identify step one of the garage was a new floor.

Anyway, with dense thinking to be done, I need a clear head, limited areas to focus upon and clear negotiating time to agree on function of spaces.

Hope this helps,
Clayton.

If I had a million dollars, I'd be rich. - Bare Naked Ladies
If I gave you a million euros to do it, I could find out the next action and context from you. - David Allen

schmeggahead,

Helps big-time GTD . . . thank you very much for the GTD inspiration:

'Purge Puttering' . . . nothing 'heavy' . . . just steady 'Purge Puttering' for relaxation/peaceful GTD thinking while appropriately engaged in 'all important' GTD Emptying

Thank you very much

 

[Matt_M]

It is a very interesting point. I also noticed that. There is a strange effect with me and GTD. When everything is as perfect as possible sometime I can't choose really what to do. So I procrastinate. I often decide a good pause during my day and then When I come back I use 2 strategies.
The first one is to read my next action list decide on something I really need to do but saying to myself "I only will work on that 10 minutes" sometime ten minutes becomes 30 or more...

The second Strategie is to take altitude reading my horizons. This make my choices easier.
Most of the time if I procrastinate it is because it did not make as Meg said "the further thinking"
So I of do a daily little review just to be assured that on each project it is still the very next action. Things can evaluate at a glance. So I need to adapt my thinking.

Oh absolutely! A lot of people can easily work themselves into analysis paralysis, with or without GTD. I recall David mentioning at one point, that when people read the book they get "in touch" with their inner office manager as they go out and buy all of the supplies/apps/etc. I have seen people get "in touch" with their inner project manager when they spend all their time tweaking systems, lists, breaking down projects/actions down to the tiniest details in mini WBS's (workbreak down structure). GTD is a tool that can be effectively misused by anyone looking to do so (just as a knife is a dangerous weapon in some folks' hands and a highly skilled tool in others').

More advanced "methodologies" (again, semantics not withstanding) have solved the "analysis paralysis" problem with techniques like time boxing (which is what you're describing). For example in Scrum, every meeting is time boxed to an absolute maximum time limit and no matter what, it ends at that limit (or earlier) ... whether or not progress has been made or not. For example, if the backlog has not been refined or people have not gone in the stand-up ... too bad, the meeting ends. We can't get time back and once it's gone, it's gone forever. The idea being that "doing" is the ultimate priority; subservient to nothing else. The time spent "managing" the work is strictly controlled, minimized, and adhered to in all circumstances..

Going back to the tool metaphor, keep in mind GTD is a tool and thus is purposefully incomplete:

• GTD does not/cannot motivate you to do anything
• GTD does not prioritize anything for you
• GTD does not impose limits/guard rails on/for you
• GTD does not manage you or your tasks (you manage them and yourself)

 

[bcmyers2112]

This will still be true when we try to fly to Jupiter.

"When." Right. Like we're not wise to the whole "cover up that we've already been to Jupiter and there are human/alien hybrids among us" conspiracy.

 

[bcmyers2112]

How and if you want to play it is your job.

Well. Knowing this, I am contacting the customer service department first thing tomorrow morning and demanding a full refund.

 

[mcogilvie]

"When." Right. Like we're not wise to the whole "cover up that we've already been to Jupiter and there are human/alien hybrids among us" conspiracy.

You can detect the human/Jovian hybrids because they emit lots of methane. Local law enforcement should be notified whenever excessive flatulence is detected. A great big red spot on the face is also a sign. On the other hand, aliens from Saturn can be identified by the ring around the collar.

 

[TesTeq]

Well. Knowing this, I am contacting the customer service department first thing tomorrow morning and demanding a full refund.

@bcmyers2112 Do you want to return your ticket to Jupiter? Maybe I'll buy it. How much is it?

 

[Yaaqoub7]

I had two days recently where I found it very difficult to do anything.

On the first day, I was totally stuck. I just couldn't seem to do anything at all. Eventually, I decided to take the pressure off myself for the day. I decided that if I could do just one action, that I could call it a win. I looked at my context list and chose the easiest, quickest thing and focussed on it. I felt a little bit better when I completed it. Not much better, just a little bit better. Then I thought about what to do next. I could stop for the day. After all, I had already given myself permission to stop, but I decided to do one more action. I chose another quick one. It wasn't easy to do but I focussed on just that one action, completed it and felt a little bit better again. I kept going like this for a few hours and managed to complete a reasonable amount. Don't get me wrong, it was not my most productive day ever. Each action was a struggle and I certainly did not reach a state of flow, but I achieved more and felt a lot better about myself than if I had given up, or spent the day refreshing my email.

It is very unusual for me to have days like that, but when it does happen, it is very useful to have my thinking done already with a list of actions at hand. What happens more commonly for me is that a particular project gets stuck. This brings me to the second day. I caught myself procrastinating on the next action that I had chosen to do. I know that this often means that the next action is too large, so I took a piece of paper and broke that action down into smaller parts. I got really granular. Start computer. Launch software. Open file. Etc. I also thought about other actions that might be needed and wrote them down too as granularly as possible. Now it was really easy to get started and build some momentum. Some of those actions turned out to be wrong but that wasn't a problem. They were easy enough to discard.

I certainly feel that GTD helped me to make progress despite some internal struggles on those occasions. Are these the sorts of things that you had in mind with your question?

Yes very helpful, especially with breaking down large tasks into sub-tasks, smaller ones to be able to move forward. Thanks again!