Medication and Productivity

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Vilmosz

Registered
There have been some volatile threads in the past on psychotherapy and GTD with an occasional nod to the issue of SSRI's.

Don't want to go OT or philosophical: My query relates specifically to the issue of PRODUCTIVITY.

What I've heard about SSRI's is that they enhance self-esteem and self-confidence and minimize anxiety (and CLEARLY anxiety is a huge factor among many grappling with getting things done).

One could surmise that these reputed benefits of SSRI would be beneficial to productivity -- or they could be beneficial to lethargy. (i.e., the crucial difference between self-esteem and self-efficacy.)

Can anyone speak from personal experience about whether the benefits of SSRI have led to increased productivity, focus and follow-through at work?
 
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luisr

Guest
SSRI Defined

My trick:
Google "DEFINE: SSRI"; great for looking up stuff like this quickly.

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. A type of drug that is used to treat depression. SSRIs slow the process by which serotonin (a substance that nerves use to send messages to one another) is reused by nerve cells that make it. This increases the amount of serotonin available for stimulating other nerves.
www.stjude.org/glossary
 
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legidan

Guest
"One could surmise that these reputed benefits of SSRI would be beneficial to productivity "

A chilling statement.

Anyway, you might wanna read this review of "Listening to Prozac" by Mark Epstein (psychiatrist).

Quote:
"The selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors are interesting drugs, but their muting of sexuality, their tendency to produce agitation, and their occasional association with suicidal thoughts and behavior will forever limit their appeal. The vast number of people who take Prozac for common unhappiness will notice nothing but side effects."

http://cadgate.com/book/un/807855510
 
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Hanna

Guest
Vilmosz said:
Can anyone speak from personal experience about whether the benefits of SSRI have led to increased productivity, focus and follow-through at work?
Click to expand...

My personal opinion from SSRI treatment is that they don't necessarily increase my productivity as much as they give me an opportunity to actually start considering productivity at all.

I don't believe in drug treatment for "common unhappiness", but for those who suffer from depression and anxiety disorders and eating disorders they may provide the calmness necessary for therapy to work. The combination of therapy and drugs is IMO vital.
As for side effects, there comes a time when the side effects, albeit severe, become something one can live with. As opposed to not wanting to live at all. If the alternatievs are distorted sexuality, but functioning otherwise or laying in a dark room all day and not being able to get out at all, some side effects can be worth it. Again, IMO. Prozac is not the only SSRI drug there are others as well. The side effects are similar, but not the same.

/Hanna
 
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legidan

Guest
Hanna...you're a minority. The amount of SSRI's proscribed compared to the amount of people struggling with a major psychiatric illness doesn't add up. Hence many, MANY people are taking SSRI's for all sorts of things not related to the symptoms you've mentioned.

I've got a friend who's a comdian/creative type, yet is too scared/self-concious to pursue gigs...courses, etc. He struggles with anxiety. His psychiatrists recommended Effexor. He's been taking it for 9 months. To date, he farts more, claims his orgasms are half the intensity of what they used to be and is not sure if he is less anxious. Lovely huh? I believe his scenario is more common than we think.
 
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ADD GTDer

Guest
Medications & Productivity

I was misdiagnosed with Depression and spent a year on various SSRI's. For me, it almost brought my productivity to a complete stand-still. So I would say it depends very much on whether (biologically) you need them.
 
V

Vilmosz

Registered
Re-read original post: Personal experiences

I'm well-read and educated on the sundry views enough so that no view would surprise me or, frankly, better inform me about those perspectives. The arguments, the studies -- know it, not looking for more info, not the purpose of my query.

What I am interested in hearing about is personal, not second-hand experiences: This board is about GTD productivity and I am interested in knowing people's personal experiences with SSRI's and whether or not they found their productivity to be measurably (okay, subjectively) increased.

Thanks.
 
J

Jamie Elis

Registered
non-productive vs enhancing productivity

I think we are confusing two practices, one is enabling people who truly cannot function to function. The other, improving the functioning of people whose functioning is not optimum. I know people for whom the SSRI is the difference between employment and welfare. I know others (myself included) who bumble along at about 50-75% of what we could do if we could "only" sustain better practices, needed less down-time, had a better fit between our personal talents and our environments, were less vulnerable to self-doubt, the slights of others, were smarter, around better models,etc. It is the latter group that searches for various aids and holds out hope that a medication might help us. I don't think the SSRIs help this group and/or the side effects are not worth the small increase in improvment. Also, it is hard to judge for oneself whatA psychotropic medication's impact really is (whether it is prescribed drug or an illegal substance). I bear witness to this. I was on an antidepressant to help with migraines for 18 months, during which time I had not a single headache. But, I gradually became compulsive about some rather subtle things and my memory deteriorated. The latter was "attributed" to age. But, overall I thought I was doing great and I rationalized the compulsive bit. The prescribing doctor did not think these were real problems and neither did I. Then one day I was chatting with a psychiatrist friend and I had a moment of insight into those symptoms and she agreed that she saw them. It has taken almost two years to undo the impact. I think we can expect that many talents are distributed in a bell-curve, among them focus , efficiency in thought or action, and the capacity for hardwork.
 
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legidan

Guest
Vilmosz said:
What I am interested in hearing about is personal, not second-hand experiences: This board is about GTD productivity
Click to expand...

D. Allen is clearly influenced by Eastern ideas. Perhaps you should consider slowing down, not speeding up, in order to get more things, the right things, done.

I have no doubt the large Pharms would only be too pleased to locate a neurotransmitter responsible for procrastination, low productivity, etc, have the DSM folks classify low productivity as a disease and release ads promising a better, more productive life you pop "x" medication. Think I'm joking...we're heading there folks.
 
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Vilmosz

Registered
Jamie, thanks for your response regarding your experiences. I have heard from one other acquaintance a similar tale -- and also learned from her that there is indeed some type of physical withdrawal which occurs when SSRI usage is stopped or curtailed (not traditional withdrawal, but some neural disturbances, like electrical shock feelings and pulsing in the ears which went away slowly over time).

legidan said:
D. Allen is clearly influenced by Eastern ideas. Perhaps you should consider slowing down, not speeding up, in order to get more things, the right things, done.

I have no doubt the large Pharms would only be too pleased to locate a neurotransmitter responsible for procrastination, low productivity, etc, have the DSM folks classify low productivity as a disease and release ads promising a better, more productive life you pop "x" medication. Think I'm joking...we're heading there folks.
Click to expand...
legidan, I hear you loud and clear. I am cognizant of your views and your thoughts. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever what your feelings are about SSRI's, medications, pharmaceuticals. I gotcha, dude. Understood. You are registering.

Now tell, who are you addressing, legidan? Is there anything in my post that indicates an agenda, a judgment, a value on anything relating to any of this? Why don't you re-read my question, if you've read it at all and please do not preach at me.
 
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ggrozier

Registered
We all know that drugs can be abused

So it would be better to be unproductive and miserable than to take a pill?

Suicidal people should just slow down and think about it more? Is that what you do for pneumonia or a sinus infection? Do you refuse to take antibiotics because those same drug companies will make some money from it?

My experience was that when I was depressed I could hardly get out of bed. I thought about it constantly, but that didn't help me--it was part of the problem. My doctor prescribed Lexapro and it made all the difference in the world.

If you are unproductive in the sense that you can hardly function, the SSRI will help you get things done, but it doesn't turn you into a super-powered productivity machine. It did get me back to normal.

Like Hanna said.
 
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sonia_simone

Guest
SSRIs are not the only medications that can be useful for productivity, by the way. Good old fashioned Ritalin made a world of difference for my ex--he had a variety of ADD that manifested in really grave procrastination. Ritalin fixed whatever neural pathway wasn't working right, and much of his procrastination problem simply went away.

These are not simple questions, by any means. I'm not crazy about simple answers that come from either side of the argument.
 
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legidan

Guest
ggrozier said:
So it would be better to be unproductive and miserable than to take a pill?
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You missed the point. The original post was about using SSRI's or medication to increase productivity. Kinda like steroids for the middle manager. And regardless of what the poster is trying to discover, it's my contention that taking productivity to this level is dangerous and possibly unethical (Since a DSM diagnosis wouldn't be necessary to access these drugs, would only those who can afford them be able to purchase them? And if so, is this one more way to create a wedge between the have and have nots?). Anyway, it's quite clear that SSRI's do not increase productivity for the "worried well". Unless your work life is in tatters due to a serotonin related problem, SSRI's won't do much to help your productivity.
 
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kewms

Registered
I agree that psychotherapeutic drugs are WAY overprescribed, from kids who get Ritalin when what they really need is exercise, to adults who take Prozac rather than face the fact that sometimes life is hard.

But I also know people who literally can't get out of bed in the morning if they don't take their medication. Depriving them of SSRIs would be about as ethical as withholding antibiotics from someone with pneumonia, or painkillers from someone with cancer.

I don't think any of us is qualified to decide who falls into which group based on a few online postings.

On the other hand, maximizing productivity is not usually a high priority for people who can't get out of bed in the morning.

Katherine
 
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legidan

Guest
kewms said:
I don't think any of us is qualified to decide who falls into which group based on a few online postings.
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I'm related to a senior psychiatry resident. When I told him about this thread (I was careful to mention that we were not discussing psychiatric illness, but rather, improving productivity), he responded with: "Tell them to drink more coffee". He was being a tad sarcastic and found the topic a little silly.
 
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Hanna

Guest
I have been thinking about this.

First, overprescription of antidepressants isn't as commomn in my part of the world as in the US, if I have understood it correctly. However the use is increasing, and some debate regarding the use of SSRIs for treatment of PMS has taken place lately.

Using medication to fix something that isn't an illness (not getting stuff done because of bad organization, lack of interest etc) is, IMO, a completely differnet story from using them for treatment of an illness where the same behavious (not getting anything done) is a side effect. SWIM?

The grayscale is spreading all over for me, as I see that I am not in any way competent to see the difference. Least of all in myself. I spent years thinking I was plain lazy, when in fact, I suffered from severe depression. Today, I have the depression more or less under control, but I am still lazy...

Using medication everywhere it can be beneficial, but not vital, is like doping to me.

/Hanna
 
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lifeprint

Guest
In my experience, ssri's have helped me with feeling like I can do more. At the time, I didn't think of it as being productive, but more along the lines of not being depressed and able to get things done instead of feeling awful and sitting there in my apartment and doing nothing.
I'm no longer on ssri's. I stopped taking them because of the side effects. I still suffer from depression and as Hanna mentioned the severe form of PMS which is PMDD. All of the doctors and nurses I've spoken to about the PMDD have wanted to perscribe me an ssri to help, but I've refused.
In my case, I think ssri's have helped me be more productive, but it's more along the lines of closer to doing nothing turning into doing something and not whether I'm productive or more productive.
Being more productive is on another plane for me. I still struggle with being productive now. I don't feel like doing most of the things on my list. I'm not 100% certain why that is. I know I have anxiety about getting things done... unwarrented anxiety, but it's there none the less.
GTD has helped at times when I am at work, but now I'm unemployed and about to move from CA to Portland, so I'm finding myself doing more of nothing because I have too much time. Ironic.
Just my 2 cents.
 
C

CosmoGTD

Guest
legidan said:
I'm related to a senior psychiatry resident. ... he responded with: "Tell them to drink more coffee". He was being a tad sarcastic and found the topic a little silly.
Click to expand...

This is why one does not ask psychiatry students questions about Productivity or such things, which they would have zero training, knowledge, or experience.
Psychoactive medications, when properly prescribed, help millions of people lead more productive lives. If a person had severe anxiety, then perhaps the correct medication could allow them to do some of the things GTD suggests.

Might there one day be a Productivity pill, or a Happy pill, or a Smart pill, even a Chill pill?
Maybe...we'll see...

A GTD pill would sell like viagra...
 
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