Newbie GTD breakdown

[Oogiem]

I do get that a list would be easier to scan, but are you actually saying that re-writing everything into a list for each context actually SAVES time?

ABSOLUTELY! The time spent re-writing happened for me at weekly review time and made me really think about the next actions that hadn't moved forward. It's a bit harder to really re-think them now that I'm off paper and back to electronic. It's a benefit of paper that you don't realize until you've tried it for a while.

 

[Gardener]

I do get that a list would be easier to scan, but are you actually saying that re-writing everything into a list for each context actually SAVES time?

I suspect so, even though I've never done it.

As I mentioned, I passionately hate paper, and passionately hate writing things, and I do all my GTD in OmniFocus. But if I _were_ doing GTD on paper, I would definitely write context lists rather than hanging on to the original notes for the actions.

I don't think I'd worry about rewriting the lists as I got things done, or at least I wouldn't rewrite them until an old page got down to just one or two things not done. I'd probably usually rewrite them once a week in the weekly review.

Gardener

 

[Brent]

I don't think I'd worry about rewriting the lists as I got things done, or at least I wouldn't rewrite them until an old page got down to just one or two things not done. I'd probably usually rewrite them once a week in the weekly review.

This is true. I only have to re-write a list every couple of weeks. But then, I keep my active Projects list (and, thus, my NAs) short and focused.

 

[dforrest]

Taking the plunge

Thanks for the posts, folks!

Well, well, well...

Given the unanimity here, I have gotten "off it" and taken your collective coaching. All my scraps of paper are now rewritten into context lists. It took the better part of a day, but it's looking like it was worth it. The lists are much more scannable and workable.

I still get a small panic attack when looking at some of them. This is because I have yet to implement the "someday/maybe" scenario I described previously -- all those 10 kijillion next actions are still live and I need to back burner most of them.

My "someday/maybe" system is lacking partly because I have run out of tabbed file folders (rare as hen's teeth here in Spain). So I am doing the obvious and will complete an online stationery order tomorrow and get the infrastructure for my enhanced system in place.

Observation: Some things I hate to put on a "someday/maybe" list. Like responding to personal e-mails that friends and family have sent me. However, I also know that for a few weeks here I am really up to my eyeballs. So the real choice is to A) not respond to my friends and be anguished about it (the situation up to now) or B) not respond to my friends and be relaxed about it, know I have made the most appropriate choice at the moment (the situation once I put these items on my "not this week" list). My friends and family will still be there in a few weeks and will understand if I explain. (And I can also C) jot off a quick note to them all along the lines of "Thanks for writing, up to eyeballs, love you lots, will write soon" and be much happier in the meantime!)

One thing I realized when going through all my slips of paper to re-write them onto lists was that I had included a lot of project support material in my stacks instead of filing them appropriately, also causing me to overestimate the number of next actions (I estimated on the basis of file folder thickness compared to a ream of paper). The lists clarified this and obviously the new shipment of file folders will help, so all that PSM can be filed neatly out of the way.

Another thing I realized was that my "@Computer" context list was completely overwhelming. So I broke it down into manageable chunks, separating into several lists containing similar tasks that depending on where I am and what my brainwaves are currently like:
1) @Computer browser task (mindless tasks, arrange bank transfer etc.)
2) @Computer create email
3) @Computer browser explore (things to check out/research)
4) @Computer learn (online courses/tutorials to follow)
5) @Computer input (requires support file at home, mindless)
6) @Computer @home (requires some gizmo at home, but not mindless)
7) @Computer anywhere (no internet access required)

When I get the stationery delivery, I will pare down my next action lists ruthlessly and then I should have that lovely feeling of "relaxed control" I have only had occasional, wonderful glimpses of so far.

I will keep you updated as to how it goes re-writing the lists at weekly review time. I do really like the advice that re-wrtiting at review time is a great opportunity to see what you've been resisting and why, to back-burner things you're not committed to presently, to think more seriously about delegating certain tasks, etc.

OK, all for tonight, thanks again everyone.

Dave

 

[QuestorTheElf]

3. When I process, I date the slip and figure out what it is.

I date my slips earlier. I date them when I first create and Collect it.

There's something in my way of thinking that by looking at a date, I can mentally recall what I was doing that day especially when it's at most 7 days old (before a Weekly Review.) It helps me better to picture where I was, who was with me, etc. Most of all, it reignites what triggered the idea(s) on the slip -- what was I thinking at the time?

I bring this up because in a recent issue of the Productivity Principles newsletter, David Allen suggested keeping all relevant notes and materials after you processed them. He used to trash many things to clear his areas. He now keeps material that has a certain rawness to it. I've found adding the date when first created adds a real feeling extending from when you started to where you are now.

When you've progressed on a project, seeing those earlier dates can show you how far you've come. (Or your inner critic Scheduler nags how it took longer than you first thought! I want to get better at this and keep him quiet.)

 

[Brent]

Congraulations on making progress!

I still get a small panic attack when looking at some of [my lists]. This is because I have yet to implement the "someday/maybe" scenario I described previously -- all those 10 kijillion next actions are still live and I need to back burner most of them.

Yes, and this is normal. You're truly seeing all your work, all at once. It can be very frightening to realize just how much one has committed to.

Don't worry; once you've got your system running, you'll build up more and more self-confidence. You'll know where everything is.

My "someday/maybe" system is lacking partly because I have run out of tabbed file folders (rare as hen's teeth here in Spain). So I am doing the obvious and will complete an online stationery order tomorrow and get the infrastructure for my enhanced system in place.

I'm a little confused about the above paragraph. My own Someday/Maybe list is just that: one big list. Just a text file on my computer. Why do you need a lot of tabbed file folders for them?

 

[Evaluise]

Why do you need a lot of tabbed file folders for them?

Well, where else should he leave all the documents belonging to the SomedayMaybe-projects?

 

[dforrest]

Someday/Maybe systems

Hmmm... this is an interesting point.

Well, since I'm paper-based for the moment, I need at least one file folder for Someday/Maybe support materials. Thanks for the reminder that I do need all my Someday/Maybes on a list too (like everything else).

Also, building on the theme further up, I am planning on having several categories of Someday/Maybe. I'm planning to include at least "Not This Week," (Not This Month goes in the tickler file for next month), "Not This Year," "Maybe When We're Loaded," "Someday/Maybe (general)".

So I am wondering: Those of you that have really developed Someday/Maybe systems: How do they work? What subdivisions do you have & how do they work for you?

Another thing I'd like to know is what you do with your Someday/Maybe support materials. Do they live in a Someday/Maybe folder? In subfolders? Or in your general filing system with references to them from your lists? If you have references from your lists, have you worked out some shorthand way to reference the file so you can write and re-write your lists quickly?

Please tell me about your Someday/Maybe empires and how they are governed!

Dave

 

[kewms]

Generally, if it's a Someday/Maybe project it doesn't *have* suppport materials. If it does, I file them the same way I do other project materials.

Katherine

 

[Evaluise]

My SomedayMaybe projects have lots of support material, the "not this week, but hopefully next week" projects as well as the "sometime in 2009" and the "sometime during the rest of my life" projects. One of the things I like most about GTD is that I can just throw all these documents into the project's file, put the file into the general A-Z filing system and write the project's name on my list. Being on the list, it does not get lost, but the papers are out of sight and for the time being also out of mind. Very refreshing.
Every project has its own file. A general SomedayMaybe folder - no, doesn't sound good to me. It would probably become a dump.

 

[Oogiem]

Generally, if it's a Someday/Maybe project it doesn't *have* suppport materials.

A lot of my someday maybe projects have a lot of support materials.

For bigger projects (landscaping, fences, flock plans for the next 10 years, Moy Gown replica) they have their own separate folder of stuff in my filing system.

Smaller projects (Knit Gunnister sock replicas, naalbinding mittens, weave curtains) are often just a few notes all stuffed into folders labeled Knitting Projects, Weaving Projects, Naalbinding Projects. Once I get too much stuff related to one project I pull it out and make a separate folder for it.

But I also tend to collect info and occasionally do next actions on someday maybe projects that I didn't have on my lists.

So I might be looking at fleeces and find one that would be perfect for something I know I want to do eventually so I may take a lock and add it to the file for that project with notes of where the rest of it is. But looking for fleeces for that project may not have been on any action list I have as I was not planning on doing that project this year. However, if I get enough that are right that project will become active because I can now do it.

 

[Brent]

Almost none of my Someday/Maybe projects have support materials, for what it's worth. And my system's working fine.

If any of my Someday/Maybe projects did have support materials, they'd be in my general A-Z reference.

 

[TesTeq]

Obsolete information = clutter!

My SomedayMaybe projects have lots of support material, the "not this week, but hopefully next week" projects as well as the "sometime in 2009" and the "sometime during the rest of my life" projects.

So you've got more than 1000 of Someday/Maybe projects and each has a lot of support material? Unbelievable! Even for "sometime during the rest of my life" projects? Most of this information will be obsolete within next year!

 

[kewms]

So you've got more than 1000 of Someday/Maybe projects and each has a lot of support material? Unbelievable! Even for "sometime during the rest of my life" projects? Most of this information will be obsolete within next year!

Depends on what it is. Mount Everest is unlikely to move. The Boston Marathon has been run during the same week over basically the same course for more than a hundred years. Host cities for the next three Olympics (through 2014) have already been chosen. Major gardening projects often have time frames measured in decades.

Katherine

 

[Evaluise]

Who said anything about more than 1000 Someday/Maybe projects?! Luckily it's quite a bit less!

 

[TesTeq]

Simple math.

Who said anything about more than 1000 Someday/Maybe projects?! Luckily it's quite a bit less!

First and most importantly, I so far must have 1000 or 1500 sheets of paper, each listing one next action. My "@computer" stack, for the most serious example, is about an inch thick. It would take me about an hour just to look at each sheet of paper, before deciding which was the most important for me to do at my computer right now. So in practice, I am now ignoring the stack and doing what I remember needs doing (i.e., back in my head!).

I've never heard about the person who has more than 200 Next Actions (it means this person must have less than 200 active Projects - some Next Actions do not belong to any Project and some Projects have more than one Next Action). It means that dforrest has 800 - 1300 Someday/Maybe Projects/Actions. I do not think that it is possible to have up to date support material for each of these Projects and Actions.

 

[Oogiem]

I've never heard about the person who has more than 200 Next Actions (it means this person must have less than 200 active Projects - some Next Actions do not belong to any Project and some Projects have more than one Next Action). It means that dforrest has 800 - 1300 Someday/Maybe Projects/Actions. I do not think that it is possible to have up to date support material for each of these Projects and Actions.

Then you've never been on or part of a farm!

Even a mono-culture farm will have hundreds of projects on it some in current, some in someday maybe and a diversified one will have many many more. In general based on my experience you can figure that each crop will have between 50-150 projects associated with it. Multiply that by the number of crops and you easily get over a thousands projects and actions. Some crops can be dealt with as a group (truck garden veges that are annuals) but some actually are multiple crops (sheep are meat, wool, breeding stock, manure, horns, hides, skulls and bones as crops each with its own set of projects and actions). The more crops the more projects you have to juggle.

I currently have 168 next actions on my lists. However, later today as part of my weekly review I know I will be activating roughly 25 new projects based on weather/calendar/gestation periods and I will end up with lists that are well over 200 next actions. In fact I know some contexts will result in 75-100 actions on them.

 

[TesTeq]

Apples and oranges.

Then you've never been on or part of a farm!

Yes. But we are comparing someone's personal system with a farm maintenance system (apples and oranges, don't you think?)

(sheep are meat, wool, breeding stock, manure, horns, hides, skulls and bones as crops each with its own set of projects and actions)

For me sheep is just a living creature.

I currently have 168 next actions on my lists. However, later today as part of my weekly review I know I will be activating roughly 25 new projects based on weather/calendar/gestation periods and I will end up with lists that are well over 200 next actions. In fact I know some contexts will result in 75-100 actions on them.

I do not know how many lists or contexts you have but let's do a simple math:

Let's assume that daily:
- you sleep 7 hours;
- you eat 2 hours;
- you do all 2-minute actions without putting them on your lists and it takes 1 hour.

Let's assume that average Next Action takes 10 minutes so you can do 6 next actions per hour.

DNAT (Daily Next Action Throughput) = 6 * (24 - 7 - 2 - 1) = 6 * 14 = 84

WNAT (Weekly Next Action Throughput) = 7 * DNAT - 12 = 576
(I am subtracting 12 NAs because of the 2-hour Weekly Review)

In this calculation I did not allow for any commute, meeting or procrastination time that is wasted in every business environment.

Taking the above calculation into account I still do not believe that more than 200 personal Next Actions is a realistic approach to life. In my opinion it is just wishful thinking.

 

[Gardener]

Another thing I'd like to know is what you do with your Someday/Maybe support materials. Do they live in a Someday/Maybe folder? In subfolders? Or in your general filing system with references to them from your lists? If you have references from your lists, have you worked out some shorthand way to reference the file so you can write and re-write your lists quickly?

All of my support materials are filed in the appropriate file system irrespective of whether they're for a current or future task, where "appropriate" is pretty much based on the physical nature of the material. (Paper in filing cabinet, email in email archive, electronic in computer filing system, books and manuals on shelf, etc.)

(This is assuming that they _are_ filed and I'm not behind on filing. But this is at least how the system is designed.)

If I'm working on a task right now, its support material might be sitting on my desk, but otherwise it would just be filed, possibly right next to support material for a task that I won't do for years.

I do sometimes put pointers to support materials in my actions. Examples might be:

- Research record dupe bug - Widget project - reported in email J. Smith 3/14/09.

- Enter remodel costs in spreadsheet - receipts filed in House - Remodel.

I use an electronic system, so I type in the actions once and never again, so I don't need shorthand. If I used paper, I could imagine that these might get squished to:

- Widget dupe bug. E, J. Smith, 3/14
- Enter remodel rcpts. PF, House-Remodel

Where E means Email and PF means Paper File.

Gardener

 

[Gardener]

So I am wondering: Those of you that have really developed Someday/Maybe systems: How do they work? What subdivisions do you have & how do they work for you?

My projects/folders/areas of focus structure is pretty complicated, more so than it would be if I had to hand-write anything. And it's heavily designed around automated processing.

But if I look at it with current versus Someday/Maybe in mind, I'd say that I have:

- Repeaters. This is mostly single actions automatically repeating on some date basis. Stuff like "Fill out weekly budget report" or "Pay Visa" or "Mom's birthday" or "Consider ordering spring bulbs." These may happen soon or they may happen in the distant future, but when they come due, they're _due_, so Someday/Maybe doesn't really apply.

Some of these tasks could become projects when they come due - for example, if I decide that I will indeed order spring bulbs, I'll create a project "Plan 2010 spring bulb order" and put it in either Current Projects or Idle.

- Current: The stuff that I actually hope to work on this week or next. Stuff goes in and out of this category in the weekly review.

- Idle: The stuff that's not happening this week or next, but will be reviewed weekly, so that it remains on the radar. It might not happen for a year, but it's just "Someday", not "Maybe". Stuff goes in and out of this category in the weekly review, too. And if something starts to look "Maybe", it'll get dumped in "Lists".

If I had a lot of these that were more than several months out, I'd probably also have "Distant Future Idle", so that I'd know that I only need to review them on a monthly or quarterly basis.

- Lists: This is "maybes" - lists of things that I've considered doing, but won't be doing or even moving to Idle until they're more thought out and fleshed out. I may have pretty fleshed-out projects in here, but for one reason or another, they're still "Maybe".

Lists also includes specific lists that I hope to work my way through - To Learn, To Read, To Write, etc. I may have actions in Repeaters to point to the lists - for example, I have a weekly "Consider learning something from To Learn" item in Repeaters. If I decide to learn something, then that may generate a project ("Learn Python") in Current or Idle.

- Checklists: This is sort of like Repeaters in that it needs to be done when it needs to be done, but instead of the actions being triggered on a date basis, they're triggered based on an event, and they also tend to be multi-action lists instead of single actions. So this may contain travel checklists, delivery checklists for programming projects, a checklist for having a dinner party, and so on.

If I know that I'm about to do a delivery for the Widget Project, I'll go see if I have a Widget Delivery checklist. And I'll have the security of knowing that while I was working on the latest Widget Project delivery, I was putting any "don't forget this at delivery time" items in the appropriate checklist. Or in the personal-life realm, I might temporarily add "remember that we're out of coffee" to the Dinner Party checklist, because we don't drink coffee and would probably otherwise forget.

This whole structure is working moderately well for me, but I wouldn't yet say that it's a beautiful and well-oiled machine. I'm still playing with it.

Gardener