Projects List and Next Actions examples?

[Turn2Jesus2]

Hello!
I'm meeting quite the psychic resistance right now.
I'm trying to find examples of a Projects List and associated Next Actions.
I've read the GTD book and am working through the GTD Workbook and completed Move 7: Keep track of projects on one list.
Is list a single sheet of paper with separate bullet points? Is it a list of papers with bullet points on it?

I tried searching the forum, as there has to be an example somewhere, but I couldn't find one using the search feature.

I feel like I've gone to a "car show" with no cars available to look at. Instead, I'm greeted by people who are eager to share their concept of what cars could look like, providing endless possibilities.
What I'd like is to see a variety of "cars" with different use cases that still adhere to GTD best practices.

Obviously, I'm using a car show as a metaphor for GTD-system show. And more specifically only regarding Projects and Next Actions list relationships and what they look like.

Naturally, I want to have a projects list that has the contextual next actions for that project.

It appears as though the Projects list is completely separated and disconnected from the Next Actions list.

However, when I'm at work, I am often forced back into a certain project context for various reasons and I find it helpful to see all of my notes related to it. I'm able to see relevant next actions and all of the project reference material.

So, what I currently have is a Projects folder on my computer and an Obsidian note whose name is the project. I have a Next Actions section that lists out all of the relevant next actions that need to be acted on at some point in the project.

I also have a GTD note that has a section for Next Actions that queries all of my project notes, surfacing all of the Next Actions into one big list across all projects. So it feels like I can have the best of both worlds. I can have my contextual Next Actions list and also a master list of all Next Actions.

But it kind of feels dirty as I have yet to see the way GTD was intended to work.
Can someone please provide a concrete example of Projects list and relevant next actions in the way it was intended?

Thank you!

 

[mcogilvie]

I assume you have projects and next actions, and understand the GTD concepts behind the terminology. I also assume you don’t really want to see my projects and next actions so much as you want to see a snapshot of what a complete system and how the pieces fit together. GTD started in an era of paper planners, and David Allen correctly understood that the best way to use a paper planner was to decouple major components: next action list, project list and calendar. People still do this, both with paper and with digital tools. For your purposes, there is a hierarchy of GTD implementations:

1) The vanilla implementation, using paper or an app like Microsoft Todo.
2) An implementation using an app built to link projects and actions, like Things, Omnifocus and Todoist.
3) An implementation using an app not designed to link actions and projects specifically, like Obsidian and Notion.

in my opinion, 2) is harder than 1) and requires a lot of work and understanding of GTD to avoid pitfalls. Also 3) is much harder than 2), especially if you don’t have a lot of experience with GTD. I know of only a few people who do well with Obsidian for GTD, and more who have something which appears ugly and disfunctional. There has been and continues to be a lot of discussion of 1) and 2) on this forum, and not so much 3). This website sells GTD setup guides for paper planners and a number of apps at a nominal cost which can be extremely helpful, but not for obsidian.

I know I must sound discouraging, but consider this: GTD is not supposed to be big and complicated; it’s supposed to be clear, fast and adaptable. People tend to do better when they start simple and add features slowly.

 

[Turn2Jesus2]

I am asking for a literal example of a Projects List, Next Actions, and how those two are connected, if at all.

I would ideally like to be able to see how a Next Action links back to a Project, if that's even a feature of a Next Actions list.

Being this is a digital forum, your example won't be on physical paper. However, I'm sure we can imagine it being on physical paper.

Thank you!

 

[Lucas W.]

Answering to your questions - the projects list is indeed a single sheet of paper with separate bullet points:


Project list

• Project A.
• Project B.
• Project C.

I have created for you an example of the project list and relevant next actions. The examples are real and come from my working system:

 

[fooddude]

Projects are a list of what done looks like.
1. Replace cam shaft position sensor T&C
2. Replace outlet in the bedroom
3. Buy a new laptop.
4. Ship "x" new customer
Then I would have the very next action in a context list. You will run yourself ragged if you try to have a list of projects and then each perceived next action with it. The only one of those i might have project support file for is #4. I currently have 61 projects on my project list and 30 on Someday/Maybe.

 

[Turn2Jesus2]

Answering to your questions - the projects list is indeed a single sheet of paper with separate bullet points:


Project list

• Project A.
• Project B.
• Project C.

I have created for you an example of the project list and relevant next actions. The examples are real and come from my working system:

View attachment 1820

Nirvana looks like it maintains the mapping between Projects and Next so that you can get contextual awareness in the project quickly and know if each project has a next action.

But the paper method appears to have completely segregated Projects and Next Actions. I have yet to see an example where there is an accompanying mapping between projects and Next Actions. Yet I do hear the "every project must have an associated Next Action" mantra. Well, how in the world are we supposed to efficiently conduct our weekly review and not have a mapping between those two+ lists unless the next actions are actually embedded within the Project somehow?

Thank you for your response.

 

[Turn2Jesus2]

Projects are a list of what done looks like.
1. Replace cam shaft position sensor T&C
2. Replace outlet in the bedroom
3. Buy a new laptop.
4. Ship "x" new customer
Then I would have the very next action in a context list. You will run yourself ragged if you try to have a list of projects and then each perceived next action with it. The only one of those i might have project support file for is #4. I currently have 61 projects on my project list and 30 on Someday/Maybe.

Thank you for your response.

When you do your weekly review, how do you efficiently tell when a project doesn't have an associated next action?

 

[Oogiem]

I've moved my entire GTD system into Obsidian. I use the Dataview and Tasks plugins to handle my system. Here are some screen shots:

Here is a piece of my project list. It's created on the fly by collecting all the notes that have a tag of Project/Active using the Dataview Plugin



Then here is a piece of the note that is for the project _AnimalTrakker_Database. Each project has a note and I collect all my taks and most of the project support stuff in that single note for simple project. More complex ones might have some additional files. They would be links in this project note.



Here is a piece of my next actions list for the context of Internet. I have one large note of all my contexts and collect the tasks across all projects using the Tasks plug-in. But I can fold or unfold each section to see or hide any given Context while I am working. I started with a note for each context but that was not as easy to use during the doing part.



And here is one for the context of LibreOffice

 

[bcmyers2112]

I assume you have projects and next actions, and understand the GTD concepts behind the terminology. I also assume you don’t really want to see my projects and next actions so much as you want to see a snapshot of what a complete system and how the pieces fit together. GTD started in an era of paper planners, and David Allen correctly understood that the best way to use a paper planner was to decouple major components: next action list, project list and calendar. People still do this, both with paper and with digital tools. For your purposes, there is a hierarchy of GTD implementations:

1) The vanilla implementation, using paper or an app like Microsoft Todo.
2) An implementation using an app built to link projects and actions, like Things, Omnifocus and Todoist.
3) An implementation using an app not designed to link actions and projects specifically, like Obsidian and Notion.

in my opinion, 2) is harder than 1) and requires a lot of work and understanding of GTD to avoid pitfalls. Also 3) is much harder than 2), especially if you don’t have a lot of experience with GTD. I know of only a few people who do well with Obsidian for GTD, and more who have something which appears ugly and disfunctional. There has been and continues to be a lot of discussion of 1) and 2) on this forum, and not so much 3). This website sells GTD setup guides for paper planners and a number of apps at a nominal cost which can be extremely helpful, but not for obsidian.

I know I must sound discouraging, but consider this: GTD is not supposed to be big and complicated; it’s supposed to be clear, fast and adaptable. People tend to do better when they start simple and add features slowly.

I'm curious: what do you see as the "pitfalls" of option 2? I've been using software that links NAs and Projects for awhile now. I haven't found that to have any more pitfalls than not linking them.

 

[mcogilvie]

I'm curious: what do you see as the "pitfalls" of option 2? I've been using software that links NAs and Projects for awhile now. I haven't found that to have any more pitfalls than not linking them.

I don’t think the issues people have are necessarily just with linking NAs and projects, but there are at least two: the ease of creating and maintaining the link, and how you handle (where you put) project support. These two things are naturally different in most task list apps, and there are often choices and trade-offs. Most such apps support ways of looking at your next actions that are not GTD by the book, and everyone does GTD differently anyway. For example, I don’t put next actions due today in my calendar; it’s a tactic that does not work well for me. But the principle, that you must be aware of due-on and due-by items, still hold, so I have to find another tactic for any setup I try (and I’ve tried a lot).

 

[bcmyers2112]

I don’t think the issues people have are necessarily just with linking NAs and projects, but there are at least two: the ease of creating and maintaining the link, and how you handle (where you put) project support.

Interesting. My two favorite apps make the linking very easy, at least IMO.

As for project support, I'm all over the map with it and it works out OK. Sometimes I use my list manager, sometimes I use my notetaking/reference app, sometimes I create an email folder, sometimes I store it on paper. I used to search for the Grand Unified Theory of how to link everything together. Then I realized I could just trust myself to know where to look when I needed to look for it.

Most such apps support ways of looking at your next actions that are not GTD by the book, and everyone does GTD differently anyway.

I usually ignore the not-by-the-book features. Mainly because I've tried coloring outside the lines before and realized I was creating a system more cumbersome than useful. I also avoid apps that feel overly complex to me.

 

[bcmyers2112]

But it kind of feels dirty as I have yet to see the way GTD was intended to work.
Can someone please provide a concrete example of Projects list and relevant next actions in the way it was intended?

Here's the difficulty with answering your question: the way GTD is intended to work is to give you a clearer mind and a positive sense of relaxed control. How to achieve that differs from person to person. It's natural to want a cut-and-dried answer, but I've learned from experience there really isn't one. What works for me may not work for you.

Well, how in the world are we supposed to efficiently conduct our weekly review and not have a mapping between those two+ lists unless the next actions are actually embedded within the Project somehow?

I can tell you from experience that if you do the weekly review that's presented in the book, you'll intuitively know whether each project has an associated next action, whether or not you have a way of linking one to the other. On the other hand, I've found software that allows for linking NAs and projects to be useful. Trial and error is your friend here.

The best advice I can give is this: ultimately, all you really need are lists, and places to put project support and reference so you can find things when you need them. Try not to overcomplicate your system, especially as a beginner. Choose a list manager that allows you to group actions by context, allows due dates but doesn't force them, and isn't overly complex. There are paper planners and digital tools that both fit this bill.

As for choosing a digital list manager, there are a few questions that can help you narrow down the options. What platform do you use: PC or Mac? What kind of smartphone/tablet do you have? Do you want your lists to live where your email lives?

 

[Lucas W.]

But the paper method appears to have completely segregated Projects and Next Actions.

Yes, you are right – for the paper method the projects are completely segregated from the next actions and you will not be able to link them as in the software.

For the paper you can use some supportive tagging system as a substitute but I can say from my own experience that regular reviewing the next actions list should be enough to smoothly go through the weekly review and no tagging system is needed.

 

[mcogilvie]

I can tell you from experience that if you do the weekly review that's presented in the book, you'll intuitively know whether each project has an associated next action, whether or not you have a way of linking one to the other.

Unfortunately, I can tell you from experience that this isn’t true for me. Perhaps worse, contexts are not particularly useful for me anymore. In some sense, I think the strategic aspects of GTD are very important, but some of the tactics in the GTD book don’t work well for me. The GTD police watch me 24/7.

 

[TesTeq]

Yes, you are right – for the paper method the projects are completely segregated from the next actions and you will not be able to link them as in the software.

@Lucas W. It depends how you use paper. If you use one index card per project and write down next actions on this index card you've got a direct link between projects and their next actions. Right? And what about contexts? You simply sort the index cards cards according to their next action contexts. There's one catch: such system doesn't handle multiple simultaneous next actions for the project if these next action are in more than one context.

 

[Oogiem]

the ease of creating and maintaining the link, and how you handle (where you put) project support. These two things are naturally different in most task list apps, and there are often choices and trade-offs.

That's probably part of why I'm finding Obsidian a good tool for me. Links are simple, next actions and project support are all in the same place so it's easy to maintain just in the normal course of working on stuff.

 

[bcmyers2112]

Unfortunately, I can tell you from experience that this isn’t true for me.

Geez, you don't like linking, you don't like not linking, there's just no pleasing you, is there?

Perhaps worse, contexts are not particularly useful for me anymore. In some sense, I think the strategic aspects of GTD are very important, but some of the tactics in the GTD book don’t work well for me.

It seems like all the cool kids don't do contexts anymore. I still find them useful, but I was never cool.

The GTD police watch me 24/7.

The GTD police were defunded. Also, DA himself said in this very forum, "Anything that works for you, and not against you, is canonical GTD."

Now, me, I'm working actively against you. So for you, I am not canonical GTD.

 

[cfoley]

I don't want to share my entire project list, but here are some examples from it:

[ ] Seeds are planted.
[ ] I have cable management for my desk.
[ ] I have more exercise gear.
[ ] I have worked through how to read a book.
[ ] D&D Session 1 prepped for.
[ ] I am in the habit of reading every day.
[ ] My client's app has extra logging.
[ ] I am rid of the extra monitor on my desk.
[ ] I have a good travel charger.
... and so on.

You can see that completed projects are still listed there. This is a feature of the list manager I use. Paper! I am a computer programmer so spend most of my day staring at a screen. It is nice to look at something else for a change.

The project titles are phrased as if I have already completed them. I try not to be vague, but some vagueness has crept in while anonymising the project list for the forum.

I have no linking between my next actions and projects. Paper makes that tricky but I didn't link even when I used a software list manager. Here are some observations I made about this:

• The projects are the change I want to make in the world while the actions are just one plan for how to get there.
• If something happened to my next action list, I could recreate it from my project list. The new one might be better than the original.
• The value I get from my context lists is in doing just enough thinking up front, and in batching together things that can be done together.
• I don't usually plan sequential actions but when I do, they go in my project support.
• When I have completed an action, the next one is usually self evident. That's a great time to either do it or write it down without having to think too hard.

 

[cfoley]

I just reread the opening question. Here are my context lists for those projects. Each list is on a separate page of a notebook.

@Home

[ ] Plant seeds with [the flower enthusiast]

@Desk

[ ] Brainstorm my requirements for cable management.
[ ] Follow lazy dungeon master steps for Call of Starsong Tower adventure.
[ ] Client app: Write a feature flag for the new logging.
[ ] Google solutions for remote access between Mac and Windows.
[ ] Watch YouTube reviews of travel chargers, taking notes on features and things that surprise me.

@Errands

[ ] Try on exercise trousers and T-shirts

@To Read

[ ] Read some "How to Read a Book" with the goal of extracting the first exercise they suggest.

 

[fooddude]

Thank you for your response.

When you do your weekly review, how do you efficiently tell when a project doesn't have an associated next action?

Usually, if I'm moving to something else or waiting for something, I will put it on my list and move on. However, The weekly review is exactly what I use if anything is missing. Sometimes I'm able to go through a whole project just from the very next action. One, two, three, four. Done. Hope that helps. I like to keep my system pretty simple. I see some pretty complicated ways here. And I worry that people are more worried about their system than actually getting things done.