Searching for a new GTD application: My list of priorities requirements

[Ship69]

Hello

I know I'll probably take some heat for this(!) but I'm on the hunt for better GTD task management software.

I am trying hard to compromise, but here is my current list of priorities:
(I have numbered them for ease of subsequent discussion)

A) MUST HAVES:

Tech: Must work on web (or Windows10) - No, I do not have Apple!

Architecture:
1. Area of Life (==> ability to filter everything else by Area of life. Then new stuff is automatically added into that Area.)
2. Goals (that can be assigned to Projects)
3. Context-tags (must have MORE THAN ONE Context per Action [EDIT: OR have multiple Tags possible per Action]. )
4. List field (needs a dedicated database field. GTD-friendly list names: Inbox, Next(Do ASAP), Scheduled, Someday, Waiting... or similar).
5. Today Focus / stars (easy way to select what to do today, and this list MUST be manually sort-able)

Views:
6. Easy conversion between a Project and a standalone Task... and back.
7. a Next Action per project view (i.e. a view somewhere showing just 1 [2 or 3] actions per project)

Functionality:
8. VERY easy addition of Contexts/tags to stuff (e.gl parsing of task titles and/or using either hotkeys[??] to add Context-tags)
9. VERY easy moving either a task (or an entire project) between GTD Lists.
10. Ability to "bang tasks in" fast using just my keyboard.
11. Sophisticated use of colour (e.g. allocate a different colour to different Contexts-tags)
12. Lots of hotkeys

B) NICE TO HAVES:

Architecture:
13. Sub-projects (projects within projects, and sub-sub-projects ==> ideally have unlimited/nested layers of hierarchy)
14. Sub-tasks (tasks within tasks, and sub-sub-task ==> ideally have unlimited/nested layers of hierarchy)
15. Additional List(s) possible (e.g. add a "Soon" or "Later" list - not true GTD but v useful!)
16. a Start Date as well as actual Due Date (==> easy way of Scheduling thing for future)
16b. Ability for one Project to count towards more than one Goal

Views:
17. More than one Next Action per project is possible (e.g. using "Forced Next" or a view that shows 2 or 3 Next Actions)
18. "In-line editing" (==> very easy/ very fast editing of task/project titles themselves)
19. Ability to define all own colours v precisely, rather than being forced to use basic colour palette.

Functionality:
20. Multi-line selections (e.g. move 3 tasks at once into a project - VERY important - nearly a must have!)
21. User-defined hotkeys (e.g. for adding contexts)
22. When adding tasks, they inherit a) the current Area of Life b) any current Context/Tag selected
23. Recurring tasks (ability to make routine tasks reappear at specified intervals)

C) MINOR BONUSES:

Tech: Not critical but it would be nice to have an Android app. (And ability to work off-line.)

Also:
24. Estimated Time required field (==> useful for extracting tiddlers)
25. Estimated Energy required (==> useful when energy is low)
26. Serial or Parallel projects (this affects how tasks appear on Next Actions view)
27. Manual markup of title (Bold, highlight with background colour - useful to flag critical stuff which you dont want to start just yet)

28. Advanced reporting that I can customise with my own exact logic / complex filters
29. Advanced automatic formatting (e.g. certain type of content get marked up with different colours automatically)
30. Context tags to filter by always stay visible on the 'dashboard' (e.g. along top of screen?)
31. Keyboard shortcuts work from anywhere (i.e. they involve modifier keys like shift/control/alt. ==> will work even text entry mode)
32. Keyboard shortcuts can be created & changed by the user

BACKGROUND
Of the software I have used:
- MLO (Windows) is jaw-droppingly configurable, however it fails both "1." (has no Areas) and "2." (has no Goals)
- Nirvana (web) fails "2." (has no Goals). Fwiw, it also currently fails "13." and "14." although future releases may change this. Pretty good at the rest.
- GTDNext fails "2." (has no Goals). Fwiw, it also fails "15." (additional "Soon/Later" GTD list) and fails "20." (Multi-line selections). Also pretty good at the rest despite ugly/dated interface

At a quick look:
- Doit.im - Semi-fails "6." i.e. you can't turn a Project back into a task. Also fails "20." (no multi-line selections). Also fails "16b." as a Project can only be in one Goal at a time.

SUMMARY
Given that I have (for now) abandoned the requirement to have sub-goals and sub-projects I now more choices. Nirvana and doit.im are both quite nice but still fail in ways which are critical to me.

Any suggestions?

J

UPDATE:
Since so few GTD task managers seem to have Area ("of life" or "of focus") as a separate field I am now having slight 2nd thoughts about actually requiring them.

Possibly one could do the same thing with Context-tags, it's just that this would really constitute a workaround and likely to be messy. i.e. When I am in Work mode that is ALL that I want see on all views and all new stuff I add needs to default into that Area/tag.

 

[mcogilvie]

I think a competent programmer fluent in SQL could knock something out for you for less than $50K.

 

[Ship69]

I think a competent programmer fluent in SQL could knock something out for you for less than $50K.

Oh dear.

Well, I guess the next question is would anyone - other than me - want to pay money for it online?

J

 

[acc.mcpherson]

Seriously!! with the exception of "11. Sophisticated use of colour (e.g. allocate a different colour to different Contexts-tags)" have you looked at Toodledo? I have used it for many years and have changed my requirements so often it's ridiculous and it can always adapt to what I need. The use of color can be a draw back, but I am hopeful that it will eventually be in a future release.

 

[Ship69]

Toodledo looks promising in many ways, however if I am correct:

A) It doesn't seem to have the concept of Project at all !!
If true, this violates about half my requirements! (e.g. 6. 7. 13. 17. ...)

B) It only allows one Context per task.
(Although it does have Tags - I'm not sure what the real difference is...maybe we just use tags then and give up on Contexts?? )

J

 

[acc.mcpherson]

The concept of a project is something that you define. It can be created a number of ways, through folders, or the use of having parent/child tasks, or through tags - and yes tags is how you would use more than one context. I personally only use context one per task - based on my definition - time/place:
Next-Home, Next-Work, Weekend, Someday, Waiting. Good luck!

 

[Ship69]

Toodledo does look amazingly powerful, however I am getting that horrible sinking feeling that I increasingly had with MLO... that is of an extremely powerful system with a steel learning curve... and painful workarounds that never quite do what you want them to do... ever!

Yes, I can live with only one Context per task, so long as it also has multiple tags per task too.

Lack of Projects is more serious. A "Project" is something you need to get done that takes more than one step, and is a core concept of GTD. As defined in my requirement "7." (and "17") I think it's only reasonable that any decent GTD application should be able to show the Next Action(s) across my projects. (To me, if not, there seems little value in doing anything beyond paper and pen!)

Is it possible to prepare a view in Toodledo that only shows a limited number of Actions per Project through any of the above methods that you cite?

 

[mcogilvie]

Oh, good going, acc.mcpherson, to think of Toodledo. It's very configurable. Tags, folders, contexts, start and due dates, the funky status field and more. Probably need a paid subscription to get the most out of it. I prefer a native app to a web app on my desktop, and Toodledo doesn't play really well with other apps, but it's a good suggestion for Ship69.

 

[Gnopps]

Is it possible to prepare a view in Toodledo that only shows a limited number of Actions per Project through any of the above methods that you cite?

I don't think so, it is one of my feature requests there. No automatic Next action is one of the things I miss the most from Toodledo.

Toodledo doesn't play really well with other apps

Would you care to elaborate on this? Of the various task managers online, I'd say Toodledo is one that extremely well-functioning with other apps thanks to its api and import/export possibilities.

 

[mcogilvie]

Toodledo doesn't play really well with other apps

Would you care to elaborate on this? Of the various task managers online, I'd say Toodledo is one that extremely well-functioning with other apps thanks to its api and import/export possibilities.

The iPhone/iPad app allows you to email or clone (duplicate) a task, tweet it or post it to Facebook. It does not support share sheets, which are convenient ways to transfer all sorts of data and documents between applications. The web app supports export of ALL your tasks to CSV, XML, JSON, Text or iCal format. This is not a rich set of features by modern standards. If you can only do what you want from a desktop, and need to fire up a spreadsheet (CSV) or outliner (OPML), that's neither convenient nor easy by modern standards.

Toodledo has additional features that some may use: notes, outlines, lists and habits. None of these integrate with tasks or each other. Import/export is only via the web app. For example, outlines go from/to XML, OPML, JSON or text. The same comments apply to those additional features, but the lack of integration is telling. I take no pleasure in saying it, but the developer has focused on adding features he finds "interesting," not in producing a coherent application. It still may be a good choice for some, but I can't honestly recommend it as a well-designed, modern app.

 

[AdrianHolmes]

Great topic. I'm also looking to invest in a GTD application. Being new to GTD I started with Trello, which is great to begin with but as your knowledge progresses you soon come up against barrier's.

Toodledo looks great but I'm wondering how you solve 2 problems.

Considering only 1 context per task how you you assign location, time and effort? I guess you could have 'Online-Quick-Easy', 'Online-Quick-Hard' but it's not ideal. Tags could help but I don't think you can sort by them. Can you filter by tags.

I'm also wondering how you'd manage 'Areas of Focus' and 'Projects' given folders seems to be the solution for both. Considering the layered approach to what we decide to do with our time, areas of focus would be at the top with projects just below. A project could satisfy multiple areas of focus. How would you express this?

Thanks

 

[Gnopps]

The iPhone/iPad app allows you to email or clone (duplicate) a task, tweet it or post it to Facebook.

Alright, now I see our difference of opinions. I use Android and thanks to the Toodledo API there are plenty of apps to choose from, the native app isn't the best of them.

The web app supports export of ALL your tasks to CSV, XML, JSON, Text or iCal format. This is not a rich set of features by modern standards. If you can only do what you want from a desktop, and need to fire up a spreadsheet (CSV) or outliner (OPML), that's neither convenient nor easy by modern standards.

I'm not sure what else to expect. ? There are the export format you mention as well as connectivity to Zapier/IFTTT for greater integration, plus several ical-feeds to show tasks in your calendar.

Toodledo has additional features that some may use: notes, outlines, lists and habits. None of these integrate with tasks or each other. Import/export is only via the web app. For example, outlines go from/to XML, OPML, JSON or text. The same comments apply to those additional features, but the lack of integration is telling. I take no pleasure in saying it, but the developer has focused on adding features he finds "interesting," not in producing a coherent application.

I fully agree. I wish the developer would focus on developing even greater task management instead of these non-integrated side-things.

It still may be a good choice for some, but I can't honestly recommend it as a well-designed, modern app.

Thanks to its flexibility I do recommend it. I've used it a lot but am now using more native GTD-applications for my work and private tasks (Zendone + Facilethings).

Considering only 1 context per task how you you assign location, time and effort? I guess you could have 'Online-Quick-Easy', 'Online-Quick-Hard' but it's not ideal. Tags could help but I don't think you can sort by them. Can you filter by tags.

I'd use tags for those. Thanks to the powerful search you can setup different searches like those you mention. Another way to do it would be to activate folders as a contexts. Searches can be a combination of AND/OR for all fields, so spend some time setting those up. Then you can enable how to view the task per search as well (for example, show Inbox-search sorted by date added but Starred-search by effort).

I'm very happy to recommend Toodledo for those looking for a flexible and advanced task manger. It isn't however built for GTD nor does it look very good.

 

[PeterW]

Toodledo does look amazingly powerful, however I am getting that horrible sinking feeling that I increasingly had with MLO... that is of an extremely powerful system with a steel learning curve... and painful workarounds that never quite do what you want them to do... ever!

I think your sinking feeling is quite accurate. My experience of Toodledo, and this was confirmed by others in their forums, is that users tend to spend all their time tweaking and re-configuring their system instead of actually using it to help get things done.

I take no pleasure in saying it, but the developer has focused on adding features he finds "interesting," not in producing a coherent application. It still may be a good choice for some, but I can't honestly recommend it as a well-designed, modern app.

I completely agree. Users have waited years (and are still waiting) for basic features while the developer introduces features no-one seems to want. I gave up on Toodledo. In hindsight, it was an excellent decision.

Ship69 - if you're using a Mac, get OmniFocus. I haven't checked if it meets your long list of criteria, but it's a damn-good application and after more than two years using it I've never once felt like looking anywhere else.

 

[TesTeq]

Being new to GTD I started with Trello, which is great to begin with but as your knowledge progresses you soon come up against barrier's.

What are the Trello barriers?

Toodledo looks great but I'm wondering how you solve 2 problems.

Maybe Nozbe? Maybe Things? Maybe OmniFocus?

A project could satisfy multiple areas of focus. How would you express this?

Tags solve everything. Folders create information silos.

 

[Ship69]

Ship69 - if you're using a Mac, get OmniFocus. I haven't checked if it meets your long list of criteria, but it's a damn-good application and after more than two years using it I've never once felt like looking anywhere else.

No, as per my first requirement - "Must work on web (or Windows10) - No, I do not have Apple!"

Based on comments here I recommended OmniFocus to a friend. He was appalled that he was unable to have more than one Context per task. (Although I understand that OF does allow multiple Tags per task - I'm not sure what the difference between Tags and Contexts is on OF).

J

 

[bcmyers2112]

Ship69: At one time I, like you, was certain that a software app could solve all of my problems. Then two things dawned on me: 1) getting good at GTD, like anything else, requires work; and 2) I was fully capable of doing the work.

Many of your "requirements" suggest to me there are opportunities to improve your GTD habits. For example, in this and many other threads you have talked about your desire to find GTD software that makes it easy to convert tasks to projects and vice versa. While everyone will occasionally encounters a task that turns out to be more complex than originally thought, if this is happening to you a lot I think you should look at brushing up on the processing phase of GTD. Before committing something to your lists, ask yourself, "What do I want to be true about this? What is the outcome? What do I need to get there?" If you don't know, some perfectly good next actions to help might include brainstorming, web research, or emailing/calling someone who may have useful information. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve, but I think you get the idea.

Your posts indicate to me that you are as stuck as I once was because you're accepting false self-limiting beliefs. That's too bad, because you seem to be an intelligent person and I suspect you are capable of far more than you're giving yourself credit for.

You've mentioned that you are "semi-dyslexic". While your forum responses suggest to me you can read and write pretty well, perhaps you should turn to an expert in dyslexia and discuss how you can implement GTD in a way that works for you. I think this might prove more fruitful than searching for software capabilities which, even if they do or can exist, won't solve your underlying problem.

One final thought: I used to think the power of GTD could only be found in software and tools. I now recognize that the power of GTD is in deceptively simple habits. We all know how to decide on an outcome, write things down and review lists. DA merely suggests applying those very simple, basic skills more consistently than most people are used to doing. Simply having things like lists of truly actionable items grouped by the person, place or tool I need to do them is more powerful than any whiz-bang software feature I've ever tried.

 

[PeterW]

No, as per my first requirement - "Must work on web (or Windows10) - No, I do not have Apple!"

Based on comments here I recommended OmniFocus to a friend. He was appalled that he was unable to have more than one Context per task. (Although I understand that OF does allow multiple Tags per task - I'm not sure what the difference between Tags and Contexts is on OF).

If your friend really was appalled he can probably ask for a refund. Omni Group are a good bunch of people.

Good luck with your search.

bcmyers2112 - another excellent post. It should be pinned to the top of this forum, along with @mcogilvie's post about the 10-step process of learning GTD.

 

[Ship69]

bcmyers2112 - I shall digest your comments - thanks. Fwiw, Re semi-dyslexic, yes I can read and write perfectly well so long as I double-check absolutely everything I write, but are both are slow and uncomfortable, particularly reading.

PeterW - it's actually worse than that. He actually bought a Mac laptop primarily to use on OmniFocus.

 

[Ship69]

Have any of you good people tried ToDoList?

It's an absolute BEAST. Ugly, brutish, but astonnishingly configurable. It makes even the mighty MLO look amateur. You can even add your own fields and choose whether they are plain text, fixed lists or dynamic lists, single-selection or multi-selection. There user can define their own hotkeys for literally about 500 things. Installation is something of a pig.

By rights I ought to have that same sinking feeling of an steep learning curve and horrible workaround that I got with MLO, however so far it can do very nearly everything I have asked of it. I have even got it to make child tasks inherit the Area of Life (I am using the TDL's Category field) and Actionable Status (Waiting, Someday etc) from its parent task. And I got it to make an exception of Contexts (in my case TDL's Tag field).

It even has multi-line task selection, although it's extremely quirky, I will say, as all the property data has to be entered at the bottom of the screen, rather than where you see it.

Moving from Context to Context is seems rather clunky so far.

So far the only thing I can't get it to do is Next Action(s) per Project, and it will be annoying if it can't do that, but there are (as yet unproven) rumours that it can be made to do so with special custom filters.

J

EDIT: The big down-side of ToDoList seems to be that there is now way to drive it on a mobile phone. Personally I can live with that if I have to.

 

[matsuru]

have u tried this? → http://mementodatabase.com/

it started as a database android app & now evolve with a windows desktop app. Highly configurable.