Sleep Issues: Amount Of Trouble Waking

[adamsoprano]

I need the maximum amount of time in a day to "get productive" and sleep is one of the factors I'm concerned about. Read Trump's "Think Like A Billionaire" and he says he only gets 4 hours a night. This sounds pretty cool to me considering I'm gaining 1000+ MORE HOURS OF PRODUCTIVITY a year and I'm willing to try it. But is 4 hours good enough? Thought I'd pick up a few books on the subject to see what's the "proper" amount to sleep.

So far "Power Sleep" is the only one I could find on Amazon.com -Until then, I want those 4 hours. Then there's another problem. Actually getting 4 hours and waking up on time. Problem is, alarm wakes me, I turn it off, and go back to my warm wife & bed and end up with 8+ hours of sleep instead. There's obviously some instant gratification/payoffs I'm getting by going back to bed. So what do you guys think of the main 2 sleep issues to me?

1. How much sleep is enough? What basis do you have for this conclusion?

3. What are the best ways to wake up in the morning? Perhaps I need more than 2 alarm clocks.

 

[AMS]

I like about 8 hours. Less, and I'm groggy, unproductive, and cranky. I rarely get more. Everything I've ever read on this (articles, no books) says the proper amount is a highly individual thing - I would love to be one of those that can get by on 4 hours, but have resigned myself to the fact that it's never going to happen.

 

[jkgrossi]

IMHO, 4 hours is not enough... not even close.

Granted, I have a lifestyle that demands I get more than that (I'm a cyclist that races at the armature level). I'm sure your body could get used to 4 hours a night, but before you attempt such a feat I think you should ask yourself why.

Are you completely tapped out in the sense that you could really make use of the time you'd gain? Have you cut out all time-wasters during your normal day so that there is no more room for you to squeeze some time?

My point is this - figure out what you would do with that extra time and see if the benefits would outweigh the benefits you get from a full night's sleep.

I for one could never see doing that. I don't "need" to be productive 20 hours a day...

What is the ultimate goal of your life - to be "productive" or to enjoy the time you have here (on the planet)?

 

[remyc88]

I would take anything you read in a Trump book with a grain of salt. Granted he has accomplished a lot, he also had a lot of help (e.g. he got his big break when his dad gave him his first hotel).

Anyway, regarding sleep times, the simple answer is that it varies depending on the person. Though most studies that I have read suggest anywhere from 7 to 9 hours of sleep for the average adult.

You can keep a sleep journal and basically chart yourself based on various sleep times--and chart for factors like, awareness, mental ability, physical tiredness, and even things like sense of smell. And after a month you should be able to figure out the optimal amount of time you need to sleep.

But I do agree with some other posters here that 4 hours seems a bit low. Maybe you can do 4 hours for 2 month bursts, but for a lifetime...I say that's pushing it.

 

[adamsoprano]

Any ideas on waking up in the morning? Any particular waking up "tricks" that work for you? I need a trick where I'll get up fast and spring into action & productivity.

As for the sleep amount, I'll continue my research on it and experiment like remy said on what works for me etc.

 

[severance1970]

I can get by on 6, but 8 is optimal for me. I tend to be skeptical of claims like "I only sleep 4 hours a night," especially when they're implicity boasts. To me, working long hours continually signifies a lack a focus rather than a sign of virtue. Obviously, there are times when you have to burn the midnight oil, but if you can't see where the edge of work is, you'll just get sucked into the busy trap and confuse bustle with productivity.

Piotr Wozniak's article on using free running sleep to recalibrate sleeping patterns in line with our circadian rhythms is highly informative.

 

[Rainer Burmeister]

Say what you want!

To get to work on time I need at least 5 hours of sleep.
To be productive for my job I need at least 5.5 hours of sleep.
To be productive for my own goals I need at least 7 hours of sleep.
To stick to a physical exercise program or a diet I need at least 7.5 hours of sleep.

The average amount of sleep that I get is about 45 hours per week (60 hours on vacations).

Rainer

 

[jkgrossi]

Any ideas on waking up in the morning? Any particular waking up "tricks" that work for you? I need a trick where I'll get up fast and spring into action & productivity.

As for the sleep amount, I'll continue my research on it and experiment like remy said on what works for me etc.

Adam,

I don't know how much help this will be, but the "trick" that I used to get myself up in the AM is to just "do it". Seriously... and after ~21 days of doing this continually, it will become a habit. Now, to make the trick stick, you have to do it every day of the week, including weekends.

Now, I exercise first thing in the morning... and I found that, on days when I don't feel like doing it, if I get up and immediately get dressed in my gear I usually break through the feeling of not wanting to do it.

 

[adamsoprano]

I can relate entirely. About a week ago I had that "just do it" habit down pretty good. Soon after I got back in bed once, the bad habit just took over me and this went on for a few days. Should there be some sort of reminders in place? I write some "motivations" on a paper and post it by my alarm clock w/ such things as hours gained, to act energetic, long-term goals, etc. So after I read it, I will get the big picture and will not want to get back to sleep. Any other tricks will help. Thanks.

 

[remyc88]

Piotr Wozniak's article on using free running sleep to recalibrate sleeping patterns in line with our circadian rhythms is highly informative.

Great link! Thanks!

 

[jkgrossi]

I can relate entirely. About a week ago I had that "just do it" habit down pretty good. Soon after I got back in bed once, the bad habit just took over me and this went on for a few days. Should there be some sort of reminders in place? I write some "motivations" on a paper and post it by my alarm clock w/ such things as hours gained, to act energetic, long-term goals, etc. So after I read it, I will get the big picture and will not want to get back to sleep. Any other tricks will help. Thanks.

You know, there's a book that I've recently read called "Psycho-Cybernetics" by Maxwell Malts, MD. The book was published in 1960, but the info contained is still relevant today.

Basically, the book talks about how one's self-image controls what the individual is able to (and not able to) accomplish. So, if you see yourself as not being a "morning person", there is no way that you'll ever be able to spring out of bed in the morning - not even through sheer force of will.

But, by changing your self-image, you're able to redefine how you see yourself and what you're able to do. Definitely worth checking out, IMHO.

 

[ext555]

Re: Sleep Issues: Amount Of & Trouble Waking

Read Trump's "Think Like A Billionaire" and he says he only gets 4 hours a night.

I'm going to guess that "the donald " won't live as long as he could.
Shorting yourself sleep has been tied to heart disease --the heart becomes weaker when it doesn't get the rest it needs.

 

[Bushido54]

Sleep Issues: Amount Of & Trouble Waking

How to get up in the morning? The bigger discipline is the discipline to go to bed earlier the night before. But with 300 cable channels and the Internet it's harder to do. The body craves sleep for a reason -- listen to your body and give it the rest it needs.

Don't begrudge the "wasted" time spent sleeping. As to Trump, he needs that extra four hours a day just to work on and arrange his comb-over ....

 

[adamsoprano]

if you see yourself as not being a "morning person", there is no way that you'll ever be able to spring out of bed in the morning"

Perhaps this individual should utilize affirmations in the morning via big signs on his wall when he wakes up and/or an audio message repeatedly saying "I'm a morning person. I'm a morning person. I'm a morning person..." This is to combat the negative "I'm not a morning person" self-talk that's going on in one's head.

But with 300 cable channels and the Internet it's harder to do

I don't have cable. Waste of time. And if you have the internet and get "distracted" one should stick to one's GTD system instead.

he needs that extra four hours a day just to work on and arrange his comb-over

What disturbs me is that he preaches about how it's professional to have good grooming, hair, clothes, etc. yet his hair in my opinion looks like sheet. The same can be said about most non-metrosexuals.

 

[remyc88]

I think people have a tendency to find one or two specific traits that their role models possess and think that if they emulate those specific traits, then they too will be successful.

However, people often fail to realize that it's a confluence of traits and events that make people successful.

Warren Buffet drinks Coke, so maybe if I drink it I can be rich too!

btw, as I was reading the link provided by Gameboy70, I came across the idea of polyphasic sleep (it's basically the idea that you can get by on taking micro-naps every few hours) and I can't believe that people actually think it might be effective.

 

[kay]

I rarely get more than 5 or 6 hours a night during the week. But for help getting out of bed, I can heartily recommend cats. I have two seven month old kittens that wake me faithfully at 5am, quite convinced they will expire if not fed immediately. By the time I've managed to get their a package of food open and deposited in their bowls, I'm quite wide awake.

I curse them, but I'm really quite glad to be out and about - I find early mornings are the best time to get personal "work" done. No interruptions, family members, phone calls, or clients to disturb you.

I hear children can have the same effect

 

[jkgrossi]

btw, as I was reading the link provided by Gameboy70, I came across the idea of polyphasic sleep (it's basically the idea that you can get by on taking micro-naps every few hours) and I can't believe that people actually think it might be effective.

Effective for what, though? I guess this is where I'm having a disconnect - what's the point in trying to get by on less sleep? :?:

 

[remyc88]

btw, as I was reading the link provided by Gameboy70, I came across the idea of polyphasic sleep (it's basically the idea that you can get by on taking micro-naps every few hours) and I can't believe that people actually think it might be effective.

Effective for what, though? I guess this is where I'm having a disconnect - what's the point in trying to get by on less sleep? :?:

From what I've read, it seems like the people who do this equate having more time as being more effective (i.e. being able to do more things).

 

[jkgrossi]

btw, as I was reading the link provided by Gameboy70, I came across the idea of polyphasic sleep (it's basically the idea that you can get by on taking micro-naps every few hours) and I can't believe that people actually think it might be effective.

Effective for what, though? I guess this is where I'm having a disconnect - what's the point in trying to get by on less sleep? :?:

From what I've read, it seems like the people who do this equate having more time as being more effective (i.e. being able to do more things).

Right. I guess that's where I've always had a problem with this "system" (or at least, some peoples' interpretations of it). I mean, it's great if you can "get more done", but why? Is the point of one's life to "get stuff done" at the expense of being healthy? And further, isn't the point of GTD to reduce stress?

I see this all the time with the people that I work with - working absolutely crazy hours at the expense of any kind of personal life. I look at them and wonder what the heck they are doing.... I dunno... maybe it's just me.

 

[severance1970]

Right. I guess that's where I've always had a problem with this "system" (or at least, some peoples' interpretations of it). I mean, it's great if you can "get more done", but why? Is the point of one's life to "get stuff done" at the expense of being healthy? And further, isn't the point of GTD to reduce stress?

I see this all the time with the people that I work with - working absolutely crazy hours at the expense of any kind of personal life. I look at them and wonder what the heck they are doing.... I dunno... maybe it's just me.

No, it's not just you. It's just that anything labelled as a productivity system will naturally attract productivity geeks, many of whom come from a "time management" orientation.

Getting things done just means resolving any issues in your life that are currently unresolved. No matter how long or hard you work, there will always be infinitely more unresolved than resolved. When people don't have their projects and action steps fully inventoried, they'll try to act on everything that occurs to them as it occurs to them, because they don't have a better system than psychic RAM. Their workday effectively becomes an arbitrary stream of consciousness, directed by whatever's latest and loudest. Ultimately this lack of focus means that what could've been accomplished in 6 hours takes 10 hours.

It's not just work that's affected by handling everything via psychic RAM; even the ability to goof off is undermined. If I'm at work and I suddenly get an impulse to check out some website that has nothing to do with my work, I can write down "Check out so-and-so.com", put it into the system, and get back to work, knowing that impulse to play will get satisfied. Or I can go to the website right then, feeling uneasy about how I'm using my time, just because it occured to me at that moment. Then when I get home and surf the web, some part of me is not fully there: the part that's thinking about the work I could've gotten done. The same principle of distraction applies to sleep.

The point is that GTD is more about managing focus than managing time. Bringing work to home and home to work dilutes both experiences. Once you recover your focus, you cease to be concerned with how much you got done because you know that when you were at work, you were fully engaged in it, which is all you or anyone can ask of yourself.