30,000 feet example?

[Steven Edwards]

David's "Areas of Focus" example map is pretty easy to find:

Is there a 30,000 feet example that shows how granular the 30k foot map should be?

Best,

Steven

 

[kelstarrising]

David's "Areas of Focus" example map is pretty easy to find:

Is there a 30,000 feet example that shows how granular the 30k foot map should be?

Best,

Steven

This is not David Allen's example--this is Coach Meg Edwards. Just to clarify.

 

[mcogilvie]

Is there a 30,000 feet example that shows how granular the 30k foot map should be?

I'm not sure what granular means to you: detailed? comprehensive?
Personally, I just throw 1-2 year goals on a list, look at 'em occasionally,
and stand back. I think it is amazing how projects and opportunities just
seem to come to me to support those goals. I don't have goals for every
area of focus, and I don't try for balance or anything like that.

 

[Steven Edwards]

This is not David Allen's example--this is Coach Meg Edwards. Just to clarify.

Apologies, Kelly. DavidCo made me think it was David Allen's.

 

[Steven Edwards]

I'm not sure what granular means to you: detailed? comprehensive?
Personally, I just throw 1-2 year goals on a list, look at 'em occasionally,
and stand back. I think it is amazing how projects and opportunities just
seem to come to me to support those goals. I don't have goals for every
area of focus, and I don't try for balance or anything like that.

Granular meaning finely detailed. Should 30,000 foot views avoid details?

Example 1:

-Make more money.
-Move to another state​

vs. Example 2:

-Make more money -> Get hired at XYZ consulting making minimum $8,000/month.
-Move to another state -> Specifically, [City], [State] -> Find housing.​

How broadly should 30,000 foot views be?

 

[kelstarrising]

Hi Steven,

I just wanted you to know the source, as it may make a difference in how you interpret the map.

I see the image is from GTD Times (Davidco manages these forums and GTD Times.) We can't find the article that this was copied from. Can you point me to that so our team can make it clearer on that article that this is Meg's map and not David's?

Thanks,
Kelly

 

[Steven Edwards]

Kelly,

No worries.

To be fair, the article makes it perfectly clear the mindmap belongs to Meg and not David. I found the image via Google Images while trying to find a 30,000 foot example and assumed, never bothering to go to the original page.

I love Meg's 20,000 foot mindmap, so I was hoping a 30,000 foot one existed as well.

Best,

Steven

 

[kelstarrising]

Kelly,

No worries.

To be fair, the article makes it perfectly clear the mindmap belongs to Meg and not David. I found the image via Google Images while trying to find a 30,000 foot example and assumed, never bothering to go to the original page.

I love Meg's 20,000 foot mindmap, so I was hoping a 30,000 foot one existed as well.

Best,

Steven

Ah, makes sense.

Here are some examples Meg & I shared about 30,000 level in a GTD Connect webinar on the higher horizons:

30,000 Level (1-2 years)
Work:
Mumbai office up & running
New Marketing Mgr in place
$20 million in revenue
New firewall installed
Book deal contracted

Personal:
Pay off mortgage
Complete a 10K race
Renovate the kitchen
Zippy Jr. better at math

David's 3rd book, Making It All Work, also has some good examples.

Hope that helps!

Kelly

 

[mcogilvie]

Granular meaning finely detailed. Should 30,000 foot views avoid details?

Example 1:

-Make more money.
-Move to another state​

vs. Example 2:

-Make more money -> Get hired at XYZ consulting making minimum $8,000/month.
-Move to another state -> Specifically, [City], [State] -> Find housing.​

How broadly should 30,000 foot views be?

I don't like either way, honestly. Both lack the reason(s) behind the goal: Increase my salary- to match my skill level, to pay for Mom's operation, to buy an engagement ring. Move to a state with- more affordable housing, better weather, job opportunities for my spouse. The "why?" question is always good. I also don't like the over-specificity of your second form. Suppose it's ABC company that offers you a job, not XYZ. Did you fail to achieve your goal? By not asking why and over-specifying what, you lose focus. Move to a state with surfing leads to a project: R&D jobs in California and Hawaii. Now you can keep going: pick a state, or pick a kind of job, apply for jobs, arrange move, et cetera. The goal drives a succession of projects, and you need not know what they all are when you set the goal.

 

[Steven Edwards]

Ah, makes sense.

Here are some examples Meg & I shared about 30,000 level in a GTD Connect webinar on the higher horizons:. . .

David's 3rd book, Making It All Work, also has some good examples.

Hope that helps!

Kelly

Thank you, Kelly. Do you think a list is a better format than a mindmap for the 30,000 ft level?

I will re-read the notes I took on Making It All work. If I don't find anything relevant there, I will re-read the book.

I don't like either way, honestly. Both lack the reason(s) behind the goal: Increase my salary- to match my skill level, to pay for Mom's operation, to buy an engagement ring. Move to a state with- more affordable housing, better weather, job opportunities for my spouse. The "why?" question is always good. I also don't like the over-specificity of your second form. Suppose it's ABC company that offers you a job, not XYZ. Did you fail to achieve your goal? By not asking why and over-specifying what, you lose focus. Move to a state with surfing leads to a project: R&D jobs in California and Hawaii. Now you can keep going: pick a state, or pick a kind of job, apply for jobs, arrange move, et cetera. The goal drives a succession of projects, and you need not know what they all are when you set the goal.

Thank you, mcogilvie. Including the motivator is great advice.

EDIT: Your suggestion to focus on the why makes me wonder: do you use a variation of the Five Whys technique when outlining your goals? For example, do you choose a goal, ask why, then see if it fits with your 40,0000 and 50,000 foot goals?​

Do you use a list format for this level?

I ask because I find mindmaps easier to work with and use as a refresher/to help refocus. Meg's 20,000 ft example is natural and intuitive to me, so I was hoping a non-list example of 30,000 ft existed

Best,

Steven

 

[mcogilvie]

EDIT: Your suggestion to focus on the why makes me wonder: do you use a variation of the Five Whys technique when outlining your goals? For example, do you choose a goal, ask why, then see if it fits with your 40,0000 and 50,000 foot goals?​

Do you use a list format for this level?

I ask because I find mindmaps easier to work with and use as a refresher/to help refocus. Meg's 20,000 ft example is natural and intuitive to me, so I was hoping a non-list example of 30,000 ft existed

I follow David Allen's advice that the connections of things at 30-50K is associative rather than derivative, so I just have a list. My projects at 10K and my goals are all pretty aligned with my areas of focus. Like you, I use Mindmaps for brainstorming and focus, but I find long entries are hard to work with, so I sometimes export to an outline format for further work.

Discussing this topic has made me realize that I should do a mindmap of possible research topics with a 1-5 year time frame. I often do this within a research project to organize and select topics, but goals for my research area of focus tend to be more accomplishment-type outcomes. Thanks for making me think of it!

 

[Oogiem]

Goals are vague

One of the problems I have is that goals are "supposed" to be measurable, attainable, clear and objective. You should know when you are finished. But the 30K ft level in GTD is a muddle for me. Take the examples, Make more money and move to another state. They are too vague to see what will result in them being done, and the more specific ones are too granular because life changes.

For example, we had a goal of move out of southern California to a small farm 15 years ago. Our plan was to buy a farm in a suitable location and we were researching possible places. Then my mother died and we inherited our farm. I grew up here, I remember what the town was like, I did not want to move back permanently. So we decided to fix up the house, move for the 2 years we needed to for tax reasons and continue our search. 2 years into it and the real estate market collapsed. So we decided to stick it out for a while longer. Then about 5 years ago things really changed here and now I can't imagine moving unless I am forced to by rampant oil and gas development that destroys my farm. So my goals is no longer move and I activated some of the decades long projects that my mother had started on this place.

So goals that are vague or too specific means you didn't reach them. Yet you may have reached the goal you should have defined but didn't understand when you started.

Another one. A long time ago I had a goal to one day have a Dodge Power wagon truck. Well we have a nice Dodge diesel truck, but it's not a Power Wagon, because Dodge doesn't make them any more. Is that goal reached or not? I'd say it's reached but in a different form.

 

[Steven Edwards]

I follow David Allen's advice that the connections of things at 30-50K is associative rather than derivative, so I just have a list. . . .

Do you know which chapters David Allen focused on the associative as opposed to the derivative nature of the 30-50k levels in?

I read and outlined the original GTD book about three years ago, then did the same with Making It All Work last year. Now I'm at a point in my life where I need to meet certain goals, so I'm really focusing on GTD, as the little bit I have done in the past has helped. Reading the advice on associativity would be very helpful since I can now read it with concrete goals in mind instead of just abstract ideas.

Discussing this topic has made me realize that I should do a mindmap of possible research topics with a 1-5 year time frame. I often do this within a research project to organize and select topics, but goals for my research area of focus tend to be more accomplishment-type outcomes. Thanks for making me think of it!

I am glad this has helped!

Oogie, thank you for your examples. They helped me to rephrase my monetary goal to clarify the actual objective.

I have a specific city and state in mind for the move example, as well as the why, so this one has attainable, measurable, and objectivity built in.

Best,

Steven

p.s., should we include our OS and GTD tools in our signatures?