Confused about Next Action list

[Oogiem]

I would really like to see one example of a life of death situation on a next actions list!

From things that got added to mine yesterday:
Check triplet mom for fly strike twice a day, treat as necessary - This is a critical thing. Fly strike can kill a sheep within a day so I have to keep on top of it.

Catch scouring ewe lamb and treat for worms - I tried yesterday and she escaped. I have to get her today even if it means I have to run the entire flock into the sweep. She could die within another 24 hours if left untreated. But yesterday the stress as I tried to catch her would have been worse as it was hot. So I'll catch her this am in the cool.

Catch Bunny & treat for bots - longer term problem, bots won't kill the sheep for a few days or weeks but still critical to treat

Fix waterer in butcher chicken pen - left pans of water out last night, need to fix the waterer or the chickens will die.

Things that came up as due starting today:
Puppy shots second set
larvacide ponds to reduce West Nile mosquito population

I get a fair number of projects that are like that.

I also have checklists whose actions take less than 2 minutes but that I still read and check off. My sheep lambing triage lists for one. The general ADR (ain't doing right) animal lists of things to check to determine what my real next action is when an animal is sick are like that. Each action may only take a few seconds to do but I have to go through all of them.

 

[Oogiem]

we are talking about time and productivity management to give you the edge in day to day life - not skimping of life of death required procedures!!!

For some of us life and death *is* our day to day life and work experience.

 

[kewms]

I would really like to see one example of a life of death situation on a next actions list!

Project: Fly to Vancouver
Next Action: @Airplane Go through pre-flight checklist. Double check fuel gauge repair.

Project: Mrs. Smith's appendectomy
Next Action: @Phone Call nurse, make sure Mrs. Smith hasn't eaten this morning.

Not to mention the much more mundane
Project: Maintain car
Next Action: @Phone Call garage re: soft brake response.

My point being that part of the idea is to keep minor problems from escalating to the point where they become life or death.

My other point being that some occupations deal with life or death decisions on a regular basis. Are you suggesting that GTD can't be used by those people?

Katherine

 

[Day Owl]

Life-or-death

If I don't do my job well, I'll end up on the street. That is close enough to life-or-death for me.

 

[TesTeq]

"Kick-start bookmark"

In my experience putting things which are to granular on your next actions list actually becomes a form of procrastination. If you can do it then and there and it doesn't take too long (i.e less than 2 mins) do it! Suggesting otherwise is kind of against the whole point of GTD - remember it's about being in control and being productive not just making lists!

For some people "Write chapter 4 of the book" Next Action can be a source of procrastination because it is too big for them.

They will see "Open chapter 4 file in word processor and write first sentence" Next Action more doable. It is the "kick-start bookmark" for them to write the whole chapter.

 

[Day Owl]

What TesTeq said. That is akin to Mark Forster's "I'll just get the file out" as a procrastination-beater or resistance-beater. It allows one to take a small non-intimidating action that may well ease the person over the resistance hump and lead to some real progress.

http://www.markforster.net/blog/200...-procrastination-for-ever.html#comment1688447

 

[graphicdetails]

Not everything that can be done in 2 minutes or less is possible if you are not in the correct context.

GTD is such a simple solution as it boils down to projects, actions, and contexts. I read a lot on this forum where comments make it much more difficult than needed, and I read a lot of comments of people pushing their own version of GTD down each other's throats.

What may be too granular for you may be just what another person needs to get started and all-of-a-sudden write the whole "chapter 4" they were jumpstarted into by that simple action in the best context.

 

[Foxman]

Project: Fly to Vancouver
Next Action: @Airplane Go through pre-flight checklist. Double check fuel gauge repair.

Project: Mrs. Smith's appendectomy
Next Action: @Phone Call nurse, make sure Mrs. Smith hasn't eaten this morning.

This is what i'm talking about, there is not a pilot on the planet with that as a next action - if there is he/she shouldn't be flying a plane!! Thousands of hours of training, checklists, etc have been taking place before GTD exsisted. What would happen if they left their GTD list at home - forget the flight check?

I would venture the same with the doctors example, once the context is @hosptail procdures, training, checklists take over. Would a doctor consult a next actions list in surgery? I don't think so - these situations it would have to be 2nd nature.

Not to mention the much more mundane
Project: Maintain car
Next Action: @Phone Call garage re: soft brake response.

My point being that part of the idea is to keep minor problems from escalating to the point where they become life or death.

This is more like it, but this action would take place regardless of GTD as any sensible human being would act on it. The GTD just puts this in place where you going to make better use of your time.

My other point being that some occupations deal with life or death decisions on a regular basis. Are you suggesting that GTD can't be used by those people?

Katherine

I haven't suggested that at all and it's a bit of a riduclous statement to implie that I did.

 

[Foxman]

For some people "Write chapter 4 of the book" Next Action can be a source of procrastination because it is too big for them.

They will see "Open chapter 4 file in word processor and write first sentence" Next Action more doable. It is the "kick-start bookmark" for them to write the whole chapter.

If someone has that as a next action they will never end up be an author. They would spend more time writing next actions that writing the book in the first place!! What would you do once you've completed it - go back to your next actions and write @computer - open word processer, find file and write sentence number 2?

Wouldn't a more sensible next action be:-

@computer - Open word doc and draft a page/200 words

Maybe this could take 10 - 20 mins to do but you would be making real progress on a project not kidding yourself you are with the first example.

 

[Foxman]

Not everything that can be done in 2 minutes or less is possible if you are not in the correct context.

GTD is such a simple solution as it boils down to projects, actions, and contexts. I read a lot on this forum where comments make it much more difficult than needed, and I read a lot of comments of people pushing their own version of GTD down each other's throats.

What may be too granular for you may be just what another person needs to get started and all-of-a-sudden write the whole "chapter 4" they were jumpstarted into by that simple action in the best context.

Writing next actions too granular is making GTD more difficult than needed, and that is not 'pushing their own version of GTD down each other's throats' that IS GTD. The 2 minute rule is the key here, there is no point in tracking anything less than that, just do it - otherwise it becomes counterproductive, and i'm speaking from experience - you end up with loads of half done items all over the place that could quite easily have been finished a lot quicker.

You mention 'not being in the correct context' to do a 2 minute item, but even then would say that isn't exactly the case. I would say most things (95%) that you couldn't while processing, because of not being in the right context take more that 2 minutes to do anyway in all reality.

 

[Brent]

If someone has that as a next action they will never end up be an author. They would spend more time writing next actions that writing the book in the first place!!

As an author who has used GTD to write stories, I can tell you that you're mistaken.

Remember, a Next Action is a bookmark. You don't have to scurry back to your NA list as soon as you finish the "Write first sentence" NA.

 

[sdann]

Writing next actions too granular is making GTD more difficult than needed, and that is not 'pushing their own version of GTD down each other's throats' that IS GTD. The 2 minute rule is the key here, there is no point in tracking anything less than that, just do it - otherwise it becomes counterproductive, and i'm speaking from experience - you end up with loads of half done items all over the place that could quite easily have been finished a lot quicker.

You mention 'not being in the correct context' to do a 2 minute item, but even then would say that isn't exactly the case. I would say most things (95%) that you couldn't while processing, because of not being in the right context take more that 2 minutes to do anyway in all reality.

There are bound to be situations where the under 2 minute action cannot be implemented. There are also times where I won't interrupt what I'm doing because I find an under 2-minute action. It goes on my NA list or into my inbox, because I don't want to break the flow of my current thoughts.

As to the granularity of a next action that is a very personal decision. Most next actions for most people are probably pretty standard, but there are times when a very granular NA is really what is need to propel you to delve further into a project. Granted those very granular NAs aren't very productive when working straight down a context list, but they can be very helpful in the above situation.

 

[Foxman]

As an author who has used GTD to write stories, I can tell you that you're mistaken.

Remember, a Next Action is a bookmark. You don't have to scurry back to your NA list as soon as you finish the "Write first sentence" NA.

Brent, you would honestly write a next action to be that granular?

Surely as a writer you couldn't get into flow with something as small as that? Wouldn't you block out time for the muse? Next actions are most effective when they can be done in the little openings of time that appear everyday 'i've got an extra 15mins before X so what can i fit in here' for example.

As a writer myself (i'm involved in the TV/film industry) i would be interested in the way you would use GTD to go about writing stories just for a different view point/method. Do you use mind maps, etc? I'm constantly looking new ways to make story structure easier!

 

[kewms]

Brent, you would honestly write a next action to be that granular?

Surely as a writer you couldn't get into flow with something as small as that? Wouldn't you block out time for the muse? Next actions are most effective when they can be done in the little openings of time that appear everyday 'i've got an extra 15mins before X so what can i fit in here' for example.

15 minutes is plenty of time to brainstorm candidate first sentences, or to shuffle a handful of index cards around. Blocking out time is great, but not always possible. Small progress is better than no progress at all.

It's also easy to get overwhelmed and paralyzed by big projects. Even the big ones are written one sentence at a time, so breaking it down to the sentence level can help get the rock rolling.

Katherine

 

[GTDWorks]

I found that when I was new to GTD, I was very granular with my next actions. But today, "Outline Introduction to Sunday's Sermon" is all I need to get started.

 

[graphicdetails]

You mention 'not being in the correct context' to do a 2 minute item, but even then would say that isn't exactly the case. I would say most things (95%) that you couldn't while processing, because of not being in the right context take more that 2 minutes to do anyway in all reality.

Suddenly, I remember, I need to add chlorine to the pool. Hmmm, it takes less than 2 minutes to do that, so I'll do it now. WAIT! I'm 25 MILES FROM HOME! Oh well, it's too much effort to put it on my @Home list so I'll just forget about it.

Get the idea, foxman? 95% is a ridiculous figure. It may be the case for you, but I add items all day while I'm out.

and i'm speaking from experience - you end up with loads of half done items all over the place that could quite easily have been finished a lot quicker

You are speaking from your experience, not the experience of all others. As Brent stated, the NA for a project is a bookmark of sorts to notify you of where you have left off. You don't have to simply do the exact action and stop. The NA is a physical action that you need to do to keep the project moving along.

Writing next actions too granular is making GTD more difficult than needed, and that is not 'pushing their own version of GTD down each other's throats' that IS GTD

And congratulations, you've actually made my point while telling us hindred spirits what IS GTD.

 

[Foxman]

Suddenly, I remember, I need to add chlorine to the pool. Hmmm, it takes less than 2 minutes to do that, so I'll do it now. WAIT! I'm 25 MILES FROM HOME! Oh well, it's too much effort to put it on my @Home list so I'll just forget about it.

Get the idea, foxman? 95% is a ridiculous figure. It may be the case for you, but I add items all day while I'm out.

But are you sure that it's as simple as add chlorine? Is there any measuring to be done or anything else to be done as part of a process? It honestly takes less than 2 mins?

Like I said 95% of the time. Thats just one thing you've mentioned, there are alway exceptions - so it's not quite ridiculous.

And congratulations, you've actually made my point while telling us hindred spirits what IS GTD.

Cant really see what your getting at here?

BTW I'm not trying to be an a&*$hole even though it may come across like that! I like hammering out ideas/opinions with others to see what holds up under pressure.

Steve

 

[abhay]

Relax, folks! Using GTD is not licensed under legal terms which require you to follow the two minute or any other rule.

Even if something is going to take two minutes, can be done here and now, many times I have decided to procrastinate on it. Sometimes I have answered emails while processing and it has taken twenty minutes. No lawyers from The David Allen Company came looking for me!

In fact, Page 132 (paperback) of the GTD book says:

Two minutes is in fact just a guideline. If you have a long open window of time in which to process your in-basket, you can extend the cutoff for each item to five or ten minutes. If you've got to get to the bottom of all your input rapidly, in order to figure out how best to use your afternoon, then you may want to shorten the time to one minute, or even thirty seconds, so you can get through everything a little faster.

About the granularity: A way of looking at it that helps me sometimes: If the action looks monstrous, I need to break it further. If it looks ridiculously tiny, I need more challenge in it. If I feel comfortable that I have to take this action, then that's mostly right. Sometimes a monstrous-looking action just cannot be broken down further. Fine, it stays.

Regards,
Abhay

 

[Oogiem]

Brent, you would honestly write a next action to be that granular?
....
Next actions are most effective when they can be done in the little openings of time that appear everyday

2 things to comment on here:

Not Brent but I will and have written next actions that are that granular for writing assignments. Whether I need to do granular NAs or not often depends on the project.

Also in my job my guess is that over 75% of my less than 2 minute actions cannot be done when I process them. So I do often write down on NA lists small things. I process inside at my computer, I do outside most of the time in various barns and fields. Changing the light bulb on the chick brooder may take less than 2 minutes, but if I'm up in the far field with a lambing ewe when I think of it I am not going to be able to do it. So I write it down and add it to my chicken barn context when I process. Then when I am next in the chicken barn I deal with it.

The second point is the one I think is the main difference between how you do things and most of the rest of us.

You appear to use NA lists only for ways to fill in small bits of time.

I use NA lists as the map for what I need to do all the time. A NA list is not a, "well I'm waiting for something to do now let me look at my lists" kind of thing but instead it's a total picture of everything I should or want to get done soon. I work from my lists constantly not just in the holes of time.

 

[kewms]

I use NA lists as the map for what I need to do all the time. A NA list is not a, "well I'm waiting for something to do now let me look at my lists" kind of thing but instead it's a total picture of everything I should or want to get done soon. I work from my lists constantly not just in the holes of time.

Exactly. The whole point is that your system should contain EVERYTHING you need to do. If it doesn't, you can't trust it.

Katherine