GTD, ADD, and Master List Overwhelm

[CJSullivan]

I want to decrease the amount of mental work I have to do when I look at my NA list. I can more quickly choose one of twenty hand-picked NAs than one of a hundred. It requires a little more up-front work to decide on just one NA per project, but I think it's worthwhile when I'm glancing at my NA list for the tenth time today, and I only have a few seconds in which to choose something.

Not having a background in computer programming, I'm sure I am underestimating the amount of overwhelm that volume of Next Actions might cause! My original post was, perhaps, more "theoretical" in nature, and it certainly works for me to have all the next actions that have popped into my head about a particular project on the appropriate next actions list(s). I'm assuming all the next actions you're talking about would fall into the same context, say, @Computer...and would make for a toilet-paper roll sized list!

I'm now listening to the GTD Fast CDs for the umpteenth time (the only program I've been through where I literally hear/learn something new with each listening), and I'm really getting (as per my "How to Be Idle" post) that the system is all about getting MORE done with LESS effort. And only you will know what that looks and feels like for you.

 

[Loukas]

Add

I know this is not part of the original thread, but I would appreciate it if some of you with ADD would post some good links regarding this issue (maybe in a new thread). I tried Googling it but I get loads of irrelevant stuff as well.

I might have a "light" version of it, I'm trying to read up on this.

Thank you in advance,

Loukas

 

[ProfDD]

ADD and GTD

I know this is not part of the original thread, but I would appreciate it if some of you with ADD would post some good links regarding this issue (maybe in a new thread). I tried Googling it but I get loads of irrelevant stuff as well.

I might have a "light" version of it, I'm trying to read up on this.

Thank you in advance,

Loukas

Depending on your age and your contact with psychologists, it is very plausible that you would have ADHD and escape diagnosis, particularly if yours is ADHD-Inattentive, as opposed to ADHD-Hyperactive or ADHD-Combined Type. (See DSM-IV for the diagnostic criteria.) ADD is a term formerly used to describe what is officially known in the US as ADHD. It is still often used to describe adult ADHD, since hyperactivity often disappears after adolescence.

There are numerous on-line discussion groups about ADHD, most of them are either chatty or are about parents concerned about their children. The best source of links that I know is: http://www.maaddsg.org/ the site of the Manhattan Adult ADD Support Group. This includes links to screening questionnaires.

The most important thing is to get a diagnosis and determine whether to medicate.

I often refer people with ADHD to the various GTD sites, including this one, which has a few threads which mention ADHD.

Good popular books on ADHD are: "Delivered from Distraction" (2005), "Answers to Distraction" (1995), and "Driven to Distraction" (1992), by Hallowell and Ratey.
"Delivered from Distraction" has a bibliography. The science of ADHD is a little disappointing. You might like a well-written book like "The Executive Brain", by Elkonoh Goldberg, not about ADD. Given your thoughts about your possible ADD being "Lite", you might also read "Shadow Syndromes" by Ratey. All the books mentioned are likely candidates to be in your local library network.

You may contact me privately on this subject if you would like.

 

[ADD GTDer]

ADD GTD List Overwhelm

...There are numerous on-line discussion groups about ADHD, most of them are either chatty or are about parents concerned about their children...

If you're looking for a discussion group, I'd recommend the Yahoo group ADDventures. This group is specifically set up for Adults with ADD (there's a sister group to discuss issues with the kids.) Members there are very happy to talk with people who are considering the possibility that they have ADD.

Janice

 

[ProfDD]

Thank you for the reference to ADDventures

Addventures eluded me in my searches. I look forward to participating there.

 

[ceehjay]

Yahoo group ADDventures

Addventures eluded me in my searches. I look forward to participating there.

I find Google searches give better results than a Yahoo groups search. It was second on my Google results list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADDventures

Carolyn

 

[ProfDD]

Yahoo!Group searches are pathetic

Yahoo!Groups has the most pathetic search for content of the group sites that I could imagine. I believe that the only look at the most recent 25 posts. You can only look back farther by searching the next 25 posts, then the next 25, etc. I hope someone can correct me, if I am wrong.

 

[ADD GTDer]

OT: Searching Yahoo

Yahoo!Groups has the most pathetic search for content...the only look at the most recent 25 posts. You can only look back farther by searching the next 25 posts, then the next 25, etc. I hope someone can correct me, if I am wrong.

Sorry, but I don't typically use the Search Message function. I do know Yahoo searches in batches, and it appears you're right. Sorry if it won't work for you.

Janice

 

[Cordelya]

There's an exercise I discovered through a friend (it's a meme making its way around various blogs and journals) that might help you.

When you're feeling overwhelmed by your list, try to look at it in another way. Take four pieces of paper. Head each piece of paper with one of these: "5" "15" "30" and "60+" so that each sheet has a different heading. Go through your master NA list and determine how long you think each NA will take to complete. If your NA list is excessively long, limit each sheet to 5 or 10 items, and leave the rest. Clearly, you can also choose to only pick items that fit into one context. Arranging a list based on the amount of time it takes can give you a new and fresh perspective on your NAs. I might decide to limit each time-frame to three items, and limit the 60+ to one item that is a reward (go to the movies, eat dinner out, etc). I then start at the 5 minute list for a few easy wins, continue on to the 15 and 30 minute lists, and then reward myself when I'm done. This can also be used as an exercise to improve your attention span.

I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD, nor has a doc told me I *don't* have ADHD, so I don't know if I know how it feels. I do have a rather short attention span sometimes; am attracted by shiny things and all that.

 

[Barry]

...my master task list ITSELF is a great source of overwhelm for me. On a good day, I take this in stride. But on a bad day, I can be reduced to a blob of ineffective anxiety by the sheer size of the thing...

That quote is from the original post in this thread. Pardon me if we have moved past that by now, but I do have a comment about it.

I think your overwhelm is because you have more on your Next Action lists than you can reasonably do or even get your head around when you review the list. That tells me that a lot of those N/As should really be on your Someday/Maybe list. Try this exercise. At your next weekly planning session, empty your entire N/A list into your Someday/Maybe category. Now selectively move some items back to your N/A list only if you think you can reasonably accomplish them within the next week. Don't load it up to the point where it is more than can possibly be accomplished within the next week. I think the N/A list will be less indimidating at that point and you can begin knocking out items with less stress. All of the other items will remain safely captured on the Someday/Maybe list for next week's review.

Don't use your N/A list as a comprehensive inventory of everything you could possibly do, but as a tactical list of things that you really can and intend to do within the week. (This tip is NOT intended as an interpretation of official GTD method, but just an idea that might help in this circumstance.)

Also, even though the semantics do not matter, you refer to your list as a "Master Task List" which is a concept from Franklin Covey for cataloging tasks that you can't get to right now. You should never try to work from a "Master Task List." In Franklin Covey terms, you should be working from a "Daily Task List" and in GTD terms you should be working from a contextualized "Next Actions" list. Call it whatever you want, but make sure you know the difference between these kinds of lists.

Good Luck.

 

[ProfDD]

Minimizing # of NAs per project

Which would be easier to focus on, the three things or just one thing?

Now multiply that by twenty projects.

....

The real world interferes with my projects too much to allow me to wait until the weekly review to check back with my projects. Also, if I take one action that renders a project unnecessary or requires a major shift in focus, I don't want to have to hunt through my NA list for all the NAs relating to that project to prune them out.

Moreover, I think it's helpful that GTD forces me to revisit my projects as I accomplish a significant amount of work on them (so I can formulate a Next Action). Often, the action I have taken has affected my plan enough that I need to change my plan.

How many of your NAs are unnecessary because of actions you've already taken that will require you to change course?

I see the point. It seems that the best approach depends on the type of project:
Simple, known, linear sequence of simple steps: Pigpog; Lots of uncertainty about steps after next one: one NA per project & go back to project notes after each action;
Many independent actions with long lead times, deadlines not distant: as many NAs as you can.

This is obviously not a mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive list, but it does show some ideal types of projects. Are there other strategies that work for other project types ?

 

[BigStory]

The differnce between Projects and Next Actions

It helps me to remember that the Projects list is a list of the outcomes I am committed to. I review this list regularly so nothing slips through the cracks, and it ensures that I am moving forward on everything I have committed to (no matter how slowly).

The Next Action lists (by context) are, on the other hand, a list of bookmarks that let me pick up where I left off. When I go to work on a next action, I often do more than the "next action" on a particular Project. Often I will work on the Project for awhile and knock off a number of steps, or really get into the zone and make all kinds of progress. Then, when I am done that "phase" or if something interrupts me, I mark down the "next" action, so it is easy to get back in the groove when I pick it up again. The NA list of course also lets me work down a list of things I am in the "mode" to do, such as crank out phone calls if my time or space or energy limits what I can do.

I think the NA list is not only about the "limits" of a context, but also about the "motivation" of a context. When I am working outside my home to make my yard look nice, I tend to want to stay in that "zone" and do a number of different things outside. Some of them may be parts of different Projects, but all contribute to the beauty of my yard, or just need to get done while I am in the mood to work outside.

I guess in this sense the NA list functions in two ways simultaneously, as a Context-based list I can crank through, and also as bookmarks of where to pick up again. Unless there is a true sub-component of a Project that can move forward for awhile on its own, I don't often have multiple NA's for a particular Project, although it is entirely possible.

Anything I want to make sure I don't forget during the execution of a Project, such as reference phone numbers and names, key steps, guiding principles etc. do go in the Note section of the Project, or the Project file. They do not become multiple NAs.

This is the way I understand DA, and it works as claimed.

Best Wishes,
Gordon

 

[TesTeq]

Context motivation.

I think the NA list is not only about the "limits" of a context, but also about the "motivation" of a context.

I agree with you that this is a very important aspect of the whole idea of contexts - triggering the execution of the NAs in the basic work and home environments.

 

[Brent]

Excellent replies!

I've mellowed on this subject as time goes on. I now have mutliple items from the same project in my NA list, and it's worked. I only do this for tasks that need to be accomplished soon or that clearly belong in completely different categories. I have noticed that my efficiency decreases as projects sprout up all over my NA list; I'm less sure of the progress I'm making on each project.

 

[Day Owl]

More books on adult ADD

Responding to an earlier post in this thread, here are a few more books on adult ADD that I have found extraordinarily helpful:

"You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?" by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo

"Attention Deficit Disorder: A Different Perception" by Thom Hartmann

"ADD Success Stories" also by Thom Hartmann

I stumbled across the first book (Kelly & Ramundo) by accident in a supermarket discount bin. Seriously, it changed my life.

Thanks to others who have contributed to this subject on this thread.

 

[aderoy]

Question: Does not the 'Master Task List' from Franklin Covey roughly equal the 'Project List' that David Allen suggest we keep? Project list being of course a complete listing of all projects that we currently have a nextaction associated to?

 

[JenniferOrigami]

1. Confirm that your NAs are not Areas of Focus &/or Responsibility in disguise.
a. If your NA or Project is part of or is an activity that is repeated regularly, just with different moving parts (i.e. create a logo for a client), it is an A of F/R and the details can be removed from your NA list.
b. A of F/R are great in that you can create a re-usable checklist to stay on task, the title of checklist becomes the project, and all you have to do is put the step number and checklist name as a placeholder for that particular “project” on your next actions list, if you need it.

2. If your list is really full of traditional NAs, moving a bunch of them to Someday/Maybe is the key.
a. It’s accessed during the Weekly Review, nothing will get lost.
b. The worst that can happen is you have to go into your S/M list to repopulate your NA list before your next Weekly Review.
c. Someday/Maybe is a long list by default. It can easily be subcategorized to keep it from being overwhelming.

 

[KW7]

Hi --

I've had GTD partially implemented for about three years now. As is true with others who've posted to this forum, I have Attention Deficit Disorder. I'd love to get some feedback from folks on where GTD works for me at where GTD (or perhaps my current understanding of it) breaks down for me.

The Master Task List and the Occasional (should be weekly) Review do an excellent job of reducing my anxiety about forgetting something important. Making sure my next actions ARE next actions addresses my tendency to put stuff off when I'm not sure how to proceed on them -- sometimes my next actions are ridiculously tiny, but that's okay if it gets me off center. Making checklists for repetitive procedures also helps keep me from dithering over the "what's next" issue. My "getting ready for work" checklist probably saves me ten minutes every morning.

Where I'm having my biggest breakdowns lately has to do with selecting my work. Dividing my list by context doesn't help -- 95% of my work time is spent in front of my computer. I just don't have much of the "15 minutes in an airport" kind of time that appears to make the context lists helpful. I do have my lists sorted by "type of work" -- reading, writing, phone calls, etc. -- which helps me select tasks appropriate to the current levels of energy and ability to focus.

In short, my master task list ITSELF is a great source of overwhelm for me. On a good day, I take this in stride. But on a bad day, I can be reduced to a blob of ineffective anxiety by the sheer size of the thing, and about the best I can do is nibble around the edges of it by selecting low stress tasks, like a predator taking down the slowest and weakest prey.

(I did see a suggestion in another thread about the book "The Now Habit", for which I've just placed an order.)

Any thoughts?

This has been a great thread to read but there are more than a few tangents here. At the risk of stating the obvious, I would consider moving some of your NAs to a someday-maybe list. I actually have 2 someday lists. One is Someday-W for weekly and one is Someday-M for monthly. The monthly is only reviewed in my weekly review that occurs in the first week of the month. It's easy to feel paralyzed when your NA list is too long. Most of my tasks for work are @WorkPC. Once you convince yourself that you can't do everything today, easy logic on that one, booting some items to a someday list is easier and it also helps you see what you need to do now. Of course, this assumes you do the weekly review. If you don't, moving items to @someday can be disastrous as it might be months before you see them again.

The Weekly Review, in my experience, is the most powerful and most important part of the GTD process. It's the engine that drives everything. Without it, GTD is just a nice shiny car that goes nowhere. It appears to promise a lot but doesn't deliver. That being said, I'm still struggling to do the Weekly Review consistently. My two important steps to make that more achievable are 1) processing my email daily and 2) processing my inbox daily. Keeping a weekly diary/log has been helpful too as I record when things are working, when they're not, and how I feel when I am and am not consistent. I read the log as part of the Weekly Review as a reminder and then make a new entry. I have a checklist for my Weekly Review that also helps.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. I hope some of this was useful. Be encouraged! Having a plan (of any kind) puts you ahead of 99% of the rest of the earthlings.