Has anyone gone back to paper?

[Matt_M]

Reading through the responses here and the related offshoot topics that emerged, I find it fascinating. I would take an educated guess that the digital vs analog/paper decision is largely a generational thing.

Younger people seem to skew massively toward digital both for convenience, comfort, and consolidation (i.e. everything is digital today so duplicating to paper is double-work). While folks on the other end, seem to skew toward analog solutions for the same reasons but the other way around: their formative decades were spent with analog tools, data, etc.

It's interesting that some folks brought up mixing analog into their digital workflows due to fatiguing on digital tools. I suspect this is another generational difference whereby younger people don't actively fatigue while using digital tools or screens but will fatigue rapidly using analog tools (writing on paper, reading physical documents/books, etc.).

Personally, I don't actively fatigue using digital tools but when I use pen and paper. I can barely write half a standard letter-size page before my hand is sore and my eyes are tired.

I'm also in the group of looking at cursive and going "what the heck is that? Yeah, I am going need that translated". I am not ashamed either because written Sanskrit, hieroglyphics, and Neolithic signs are all forms of language/writing that are no longer used anymore too (or even understood).

In fact, Shakespeare, Chaucer, and late 19th century English is essentially unintelligible by modern civilization. Language, writing, and communication all evolve to match the needs of society. Given that it's so common for people to speak more than 1 language, I'd be surprised if we didn't converge even more on those elements.

All that to say, while analog systems are definitely not for me, I don't begrudge those that use them nor do I think anyone should beat themselves up if they're not perfect at using either type of tools. All that matters is "can you read it? Does it help get things off your mind?" ... that's my 2 cents.

Great discussion overall! Very insightful.

Aside:

I actually noticed that one's experience with digital tools and typing proficiency/speed also correlate (but possibly not causate) with longer digital messages/etc. As someone indirectly pointed out to me recently, those who are highly acclimated to technology and great typists tend to type much longer messages, emails, etc. than those who aren't. I would imagine the same is true of using mobile devices more than laptops/desktops.

Edit:

Re-reading my post, I want to elaborate on one point further: generational divides and converging on languages. Much like how some folks look at younger people and say "How can you not read and write in cursive?", I look at even younger people and say "How can you not read and write in any written language? What heck do all these little pictures mean: <insert your emoji example here>? Back in my day, I didn't need the magical decoder ring to tell someone something ..."

 

[TesTeq]

This is why there are multiple (as it progressed) printed copies of my novel, minimum margins, seven point type, in two different locations. It would be a huge pain to retype it, but it wouldn't be lost.

@Gardener Exactly! I do the same with my long-form writing! Paper is visibly reliable! And I do backups manually – just copying my folders to USB drive. I don't rely on fancy incremental backup solutions. I have no huge files and USB drives are very cheap.

 

[devon.marie]

Reading through the responses here and the related offshoot topics that emerged, I find it fascinating. I would take an educated guess that the digital vs analog/paper decision is largely a generational thing.

No offense to you, Matt, but I do not believe most of this to be true.

I may not be as young as I once was, but I turned 35 this year, which makes me a millennial. I am very, very good with computers and use them daily for both my job (graphic/web design & marketing) and recreation (I play video games on a custom PC that I built myself). I started using computers in school in 1st grade and have been using them ever since. On an average day, I spend about 12 hours on a computer.

I use analog lists. My three biggest hobbies are reading, playing video games, and collecting fountain pens and nice stationery. And almost every single friend I have made through the fountain pen/stationery hobby is young (most are 19-45). There's a resurgence among younger generations to find tactile, real experiences. To find ways to slow down, breathe, think. I attend a national pen show each year (yes, these exist) in Chicago, and a large portion of those in attendance are Gen X, Millennial, and Gen Z. Almost my entire interaction with the massive stationery community is via Instagram. So I think there was a time when it was generational, but not anymore. People are starting to see technology as the massive distraction that it is, and looking for ways to reduce the time spent on it in their lives to a healthier, more productive, and less harmful level.

I'm also in the group of looking at cursive and going "what the heck is that? Yeah, I am going need that translated". I am not ashamed either because written Sanskrit, hieroglyphics, and Neolithic signs are all forms of language/writing that are no longer used anymore too (or even understood).

I do not wish to unpack the lumping of cursive with Sanskrit and hieroglyphics, except to say that in my opinion this is a very ignorant (as in lacking personal knowledge of the subject) take. Cursive is still used daily in many industries, many adults still write it, and it still serves a very useful purpose (cursive is for writing, not reading). Comparing it to the language used by a culture dead for millennia is... a choice

In fact, Shakespeare, Chaucer, and late 19th century English is essentially unintelligible by modern civilization.

This is also untrue in its entirety. Please give "the youth" some credit, as Shakespeare is still taught in school, and late 19th century English is... just English. Have you read Sherlock Holmes? Not remotely unintelligible.

Re-reading my post, I want to elaborate on one point further: generational divides and converging on languages. Much like how some folks look at younger people and say "How can you not read and write in cursive?", I look at even younger people and say "How can you not read and write in any written language? What heck do all these little pictures mean: <insert your emoji example here>? Back in my day, I didn't need the magical decoder ring to tell someone something ..."

The irony that the first human languages were in fact little pictures I'm also reminded of the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation when Picard is stuck on a planet with a man who only speaks in allegorical references to points and stories of his people's history. The episode aired sometime in the 80s or 90s and yet, this is essentially speaking with memes that younger folk do today.

I used to play with software as a hobby. I'd try every new productivity software under the sun, always playing around to find the best tool. But I spent most of my time inputting data or fiddling with setups/filters/views/saved searches/etc. and not actually getting things done. Paper makes a lot of executive decisions for you, and when decision fatigue is finally being seen as the real threat to productivity and happiness that it is, removing decisions that one doesn't need to make has made a marked difference in my life.

I now keep my lists in a bible-size Plotter (same as personal size Filofax), written with one of a variety of nice fountain pens or wood pencils. The small rings are a) way easier to write around , b) more portable, and c) restrictive to how many sheets I can include. I must prune and be intentional with what makes it onto my todo lists. And this means my lists reflect my goals and priorities a lot more than when I just plunked everything into OF or Todoist or Asana or Trello or Evernote or Nirvana or or or. With a history in gaming and competitive MMO gameplay, I have a tendency to optimize. Software is too great of a temptation for me, I fiddle too much. Paper lets me keep my priorities straight with much less willpower required.

 

[mcogilvie]

@Matt_M, I agree with @devon.marie. I have seen various levels of digital competence at all age points. This is particularly true if you consider people’s needs and preferences. I will probably never be able to type quickly with my thumbs on a phone, and I’m slower than many young people on apps they use a lot but I don’t. However, I’m quite competent with many tools on many platforms. I have seen many people of all ages who are facile users of social media, but have no other real digital skills. I have also known many brilliant people with poor digital skills.

I have real-world evidence that non-native English speakers often find Shakespeare difficult to understand in spoken form, but do much better with reading. I find Shakespeare fairly easy, personally, and certainly less challenging than Joyce’s 20th century Finnegan’s Wake. Reading Chaucer in the original side-by-side with a modern translation gives most people some appreciation of the original.

 

[cfoley]

@cfoley The catch with backups is the the are rarely tested. You can have many backups and nothing to restore…

It sounds like you are suggesting that backing up data is a bad thing. I imagine that's not what you meant, given that you copy your files onto hard drives (which is one of the two methods I recommended). I hope you sometimes take a hard drive off-site to reduce the risk from fire.

This is why there are multiple (as it progressed) printed copies of my novel, minimum margins, seven point type, in two different locations. It would be a huge pain to retype it, but it wouldn't be lost.

Sounds like you have an off site backup and a manual backup (both printed out). Those were my two backup recommendations!

 

[Mrs-Polifax]

I find this topic indeed interesting. I did not know that young people (I mean less than 30) like paper and Hand writing. I am older. 62 next February the 14th. I began my life with ink and paper. I also learned working on a computer, making list and even making databases. I love my paper notebook. Comparing to software I feel more intentional. Paper and writing seem directly link to my brain. Even making mind map on paper has the same effect with me. Of course I still use Omnifocus or things 3 for making list and context. I often switch. But the reality is that it is more for managing future than what is actionable. For me nothing is better than a good handwritten list. I often make todo list I number by priority. Not too long but stuff I really need to do today. Seeing task on a computer doesnt make me happy. It needs more energy to me than real writing. I dont know why. I see that it is not a question of generation. My daughter loves writing on her paper note books and she does nt use any software for managing her projects and task.

@FocusGuy

It has been fun and a joy to hear about your marvelous experiences of using a paper-based system. You seem to have come home to a slower-paced, more intentional, present, enjoyable, and peaceful way of life. I like the way you say that paper and writing seem directly linked to your brain. It is like poetry to hear you talk about it. There is a natural "rightness" for you here.

Thanks! I really enjoyed hearing about this.

 

[TesTeq]

It sounds like you are suggesting that backing up data is a bad thing.

@cfoley I tried to write that backups should be tested. If my comment sounded like "backups are bad" it must have been a problem with my English language skills. I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

[Mrs-Polifax]

I'm just back from a conference where I left my real GTD life behind and took some conference-specific projects and actions with me. My tools were a notepad, a pen and a highlighter.

I loved it and am considering migrating my GTD system back to paper.

If anyone here has abandoned an electronic system for a paper one, I would love to hear from you. I'm a bit apprehensive about the migration so I would appreciate hearing as wide a range of successes and failures as possible.

In the meantime, I'm going to work from some printouts so I can easily go back.

@cfoley

What a lively discussion you initiated! Thank you! I've found this to be one of the most interesting threads on the forum as it progressed!

 

[Matt_M]

No offense to you, Matt, but I do not believe most of this to be true.

I may not be as young as I once was, but I turned 35 this year, which makes me a millennial. I am very, very good with computers and use them daily for both my job (graphic/web design & marketing) and recreation (I play video games on a custom PC that I built myself). I started using computers in school in 1st grade and have been using them ever since. On an average day, I spend about 12 hours on a computer.

I use analog lists. My three biggest hobbies are reading, playing video games, and collecting fountain pens and nice stationery. And almost every single friend I have made through the fountain pen/stationery hobby is young (most are 19-45). There's a resurgence among younger generations to find tactile, real experiences. To find ways to slow down, breathe, think. I attend a national pen show each year (yes, these exist) in Chicago, and a large portion of those in attendance are Gen X, Millennial, and Gen Z. Almost my entire interaction with the massive stationery community is via Instagram. So I think there was a time when it was generational, but not anymore. People are starting to see technology as the massive distraction that it is, and looking for ways to reduce the time spent on it in their lives to a healthier, more productive, and less harmful level.

I do not wish to unpack the lumping of cursive with Sanskrit and hieroglyphics, except to say that in my opinion this is a very ignorant (as in lacking personal knowledge of the subject) take. Cursive is still used daily in many industries, many adults still write it, and it still serves a very useful purpose (cursive is for writing, not reading). Comparing it to the language used by a culture dead for millennia is... a choice

This is also untrue in its entirety. Please give "the youth" some credit, as Shakespeare is still taught in school, and late 19th century English is... just English. Have you read Sherlock Holmes? Not remotely unintelligible.

The irony that the first human languages were in fact little pictures I'm also reminded of the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation when Picard is stuck on a planet with a man who only speaks in allegorical references to points and stories of his people's history. The episode aired sometime in the 80s or 90s and yet, this is essentially speaking with memes that younger folk do today.

I used to play with software as a hobby. I'd try every new productivity software under the sun, always playing around to find the best tool. But I spent most of my time inputting data or fiddling with setups/filters/views/saved searches/etc. and not actually getting things done. Paper makes a lot of executive decisions for you, and when decision fatigue is finally being seen as the real threat to productivity and happiness that it is, removing decisions that one doesn't need to make has made a marked difference in my life.

I now keep my lists in a bible-size Plotter (same as personal size Filofax), written with one of a variety of nice fountain pens or wood pencils. The small rings are a) way easier to write around , b) more portable, and c) restrictive to how many sheets I can include. I must prune and be intentional with what makes it onto my todo lists. And this means my lists reflect my goals and priorities a lot more than when I just plunked everything into OF or Todoist or Asana or Trello or Evernote or Nirvana or or or. With a history in gaming and competitive MMO gameplay, I have a tendency to optimize. Software is too great of a temptation for me, I fiddle too much. Paper lets me keep my priorities straight with much less willpower required.

I am sorry that you feel that way. With all due respect, I never implied or claimed that every one uses digital or analog in their respective generations. In fact, I explicitly stated that I think (i.e. based on my own experiences, observations, and interactions) they seem to skew and trend (or tend) that way based on their formative experience and general capacity for their work. There appears to be a disingenuous misinterpretation and a misrepresentation of what I stated. That is unfortunate.

Normally, I would respond to a person's laborious reply and give a well-crafted response to try to better understand them, their views, and hopefully find common ground. However, since you resorted to calling me ignorant, insinuating that I am stupid, and ultimately seem to be purposefully mischaracterizing what I said; I see no sense in responding to anything further. In short, I am taking Samuel Clemens' advice here.

 

[Oogiem]

I would take an educated guess that the digital vs analog/paper decision is largely a generational thing.

Not sure I agree with that assessment at all. I love paper, I wish I could make it work for me because I love nice pens and uxurous notebooks but what do I actually use to get work done? Back sides of the daily Far Side calendars as quick capture or else a cheap 3 x 5 notebook and inexpensive gel pen. How does that raw input get translated into someday/maybe, actions and projects? In obsidin in a digital format. And I'm over 45 years of using computers, so certainly not in the younger age group.

I find Shakespeare fairly easy, personally, and certainly less challenging than Joyce’s 20th century Finnegan’s Wake. Reading Chaucer in the original side-by-side with a modern translation gives most people some appreciation of the original.

Hear hear! I totally agree with Shakespeare vs Joyce.

 

[Gardener]

Younger people seem to skew massively toward digital both for convenience, comfort, and consolidation (i.e. everything is digital today so duplicating to paper is double-work). While folks on the other end, seem to skew toward analog solutions for the same reasons but the other way around: their formative decades were spent with analog tools, data, etc.

I'm in my mid-fifties, and I use computers for almost everything. The main exception is book-length fiction, but I think that's about portability and the consequences of damage. If I sit on a paper book, or drop it in the bathtub, or forget it so that the lawn sprinklers soak it, or leave it in a hotel room, it's no big deal.

 

[cfoley]

@cfoley I tried to write that backups should be tested. If my comment sounded like "backups are bad" it must have been a problem with my English language skills. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Oh good. That is what I was hoping. No slight on your English language skills intended. If you didn't occasionally mention that it is a second language, then I would be oblivious to the fact.

 

[Broomscot]

I like the way you say that paper and writing seem directly linked to your brain.

I am sorry that I can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that forming the letters by hand engages more, and different, parts of the brain compared to typing the letters on a keyboard. So perhaps writing on paper really is more directly linked to the brain?

 

[Mrs-Polifax]

I am sorry that I can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that forming the letters by hand engages more, and different, parts of the brain compared to typing the letters on a keyboard. So perhaps writing on paper really is more directly linked to the brain?

Yes, I've read that somewhere, too.

 

[Mrs-Polifax]

In honor of @Matt_M, here are some potentially relevant (or irreverant) quotes by Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain):

“Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.” ― Mark Twain

“There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things.
The first group is less crowded.” – Mark Twain

“If it’s your job to eat a frog, it’s best to do it first thing in the morning. And If it’s your job to eat two frogs, it’s best to eat the
biggest one first.” – Mark Twain

“Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.” – Mark Twain

“The secret of getting ahead is getting started.” – Mark Twain

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain

“Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I’ve done it thousands of times.” – Mark Twain

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” – Mark Twain

“The best way to cheer yourself up is to try to cheer somebody else up.” – Mark Twain

“Part of the secret of a success in life is to eat what you like and let the food fight it out inside.” – Mark Twain

“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.” – Mark Twain

“Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.” – Mark Twain

“When I was younger I could remember anything, whether it happened or not.” – Mark Twain

“Don’t go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.” – Mark Twain

“Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” – Mark Twain

“A man’s character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.” – Mark Twain

"Wrinkles should merely indicate where smiles have been." Mark Twain

“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” – Mark Twain

“The most interesting information comes from children, for they tell all they know and then stop.” – Mark Twain

“Thousands of geniuses live and die undiscovered – either by themselves or by others.” – Mark Twain

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” – Mark Twain

“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” – Mark Twain

“Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.” – Mark Twain

“Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.” – Mark Twain

“If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.” – Mark Twain

“The lack of money is the root of all evil.” – Mark Twain

“It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.” – Mark Twain

“A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.” – Mark Twain

“Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.” – Mark Twain

“The human race is a race of cowards; and I am not only marching in that procession but carrying a banner.” – Mark Twain

“Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.” – Mark Twain

“Let us make a special effort to stop communicating with each other, so we can have some conversation.” – Mark Twain

“Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.” – Mark Twain

 

[devon.marie]

There appears to be a disingenuous misinterpretation and a misrepresentation of what I stated. That is unfortunate.

Where? I believe I and others directly addressed what you said. As far as I can see, there was no misinterpretation or misrepresentation of what you stated, just respectful disagreements to the points you made.

However, since you resorted to calling me ignorant, insinuating that I am stupid, and ultimately seem to be purposefully mischaracterizing what I said; I see no sense in responding to anything further.

I used the true definition of ignorant, and even clarified it in parenthesis, to hopefully not give the impression of insulting you. It just seemed as if you presented a take that didn't have much research or knowledge behind it, which is totally fine! Forums are for discussions. But I did not call you ignorant as an insult, and definitely did not insinuate you are stupid, or mischaracterize what you wrote. I just respectfully disagreed based on years and years of hobby and personal interest in the very subject you broached. I am sorry you could not see the post with the tone in which I wrote it, I did not intend for it to be hostile in any way.

 

[devon.marie]

I am sorry that I can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that forming the letters by hand engages more, and different, parts of the brain compared to typing the letters on a keyboard. So perhaps writing on paper really is more directly linked to the brain?

Yes, I've read that somewhere, too.

You may find this older but still interesting NYT article interesting: What's Lost as Handwriting Fades - The New York Times

 

[Blanka Dibtr]

I tried - but I realised what I could not live without is:
- copying links
- sharing lists
- calendar sync
- having everything with me, not splitting projects from actions, etc...
- (as sad as it is to say) my phone.
So yes, cleared and tidied up everything, gave it a proper try, but why suffer? I use paper and pen for whatever I can, I am a stationery fan... but the next action lists just have to be with me and in sync.

 

[bishblaize]

One thing I used to do back in about 2010 was to print off my Next Actions. I was using OneNote at the time for my task manager and it put your NAs in a nice printable format. So I'd print off my NAs onto a couple of pieces of stapled A4 and keep them with me on my desk. It was genuinely helpful to have some dedicated real estate for my NAs, and there's something pleasingly tactile about striking through an NA as you complete it.

 

[2097]

So far the paper notebook is fun but haven't gotten all the way to the intentionality I wanted. I'm also gonna 4-month long "terms" where I, three times per year, do a review of my goals at that horizon of focus. And it's the last month of my first term attempting this and I haven't been as good at sticking to only the term goals as I wanted. I've been suckered in to working on other "driven-by-the-latest-and-loudest" type tasks alongside my stated goals. Yeah, yeah, the term goals themselves are progressing OK, but it's just a lack of that monomaniacal focus that I was hoping to achieve—and I am gonna keep trying this "term-based" method even though I haven't mastered it yet!