How to handle infinite projects?

S

Sergey Gamayunov

0
Hi everbody,

GTD system is designed for projects that have certain steps and end when all step are completed. We determine exact actions to complete the project, create list of them and toss the next one to the NEXT ACTIONS list. But what if my project is not like this?

For example, I am learning math. I watch the course from MIT, 24 lectures, one by one. Sometimes I don't have time to finish the lecture, so I interrupt watching and continue the next time. Here "Watch a lecture" is the next action in this project. But when I finish it... what happens next? I add another one, with exact the same name "Watch a lecture".

Or practice. You can't finish project "Practice piano", right? But I still want to have "Play piano" in my NEXT ACTIONS list, so I can see all available options for the current moment and choose wisely.

Yes, I can create repeating tasks in project in my GTD software. But is this the right thing to do? I mean I won't see the progress, because when I complete the task, I see the new one, with the same name. Yes, I can configure repeating logic, so the new one will appear only on the next day, but it still feels unnatural.

I am wondering if anybody has faced that kind of dilemma and has come to better solution?

Thanks in advance.
 
Sergey Gamayunov said:
Hi everbody,

GTD system is designed for projects that have certain steps and end when all step are completed. We determine exact actions to complete the project, create list of them and toss the next one to the NEXT ACTIONS list. But what if my project is not like this?

For example, I am learning math. I watch the course from MIT, 24 lectures, one by one. Sometimes I don't have time to finish the lecture, so I interrupt watching and continue the next time. Here "Watch a lecture" is the next action in this project. But when I finish it... what happens next? I add another one, with exact the same name "Watch a lecture".

Or practice. You can't finish project "Practice piano", right? But I still want to have "Play piano" in my NEXT ACTIONS list, so I can see all available options for the current moment and choose wisely.

Yes, I can create repeating tasks in project in my GTD software. But is this the right thing to do? I mean I won't see the progress, because when I complete the task, I see the new one, with the same name. Yes, I can configure repeating logic, so the new one will appear only on the next day, but it still feels unnatural.

I am wondering if anybody has faced that kind of dilemma and has come to better solution?

Thanks in advance.
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I cannot say if it is “right” or not but I have plenty of recurring tasks. Practicing piano is one of mine, my corporate monthly closing is another. It happens every month and repeats. I set them up as recurring next actions so they are complete but “show back up” next time around.
 
Sergey Gamayunov said:
For example, I am learning math. I watch the course from MIT, 24 lectures, one by one. Sometimes I don't have time to finish the lecture, so I interrupt watching and continue the next time. Here "Watch a lecture" is the next action in this project. But when I finish it... what happens next? I add another one, with exact the same name "Watch a lecture".
Click to expand...
@Sergey Gamayunov
Project: 24 MIT math lectures watched.
Next Action: Watch lecture 13, start at 12'55".
 
Sergey Gamayunov said:
Hi everbody,

GTD system is designed for projects that have certain steps and end when all step are completed. We determine exact actions to complete the project, create list of them and toss the next one to the NEXT ACTIONS list. But what if my project is not like this?

For example, I am learning math. I watch the course from MIT, 24 lectures, one by one. Sometimes I don't have time to finish the lecture, so I interrupt watching and continue the next time. Here "Watch a lecture" is the next action in this project. But when I finish it... what happens next? I add another one, with exact the same name "Watch a lecture".
Click to expand...
Just to follow up on what TesTeq wrote, if you aren’t excited enough by watching MIT math lectures to record what you are watching next, maybe you don’t really want or need to do it. This is not an infinite project. At some point you can say “I’ve learned enough about differential forms (or Lie groups, or whatever) for now.”

As to practicing the piano, why are you doing it? Are you working on technique, or on sight-reading? Learning a piece of music? Or just relaxing? I play guitar every day, and it appears on no list. I am enjoying myself and still growing and improving. It’s not a project. If I thought I needed to be reminded to play guitar, I would put it on a list, but I don’t need to.

GTD is not a mechanical exercise in projects, lists and actions. It is aimed at freeing our attention to be our best selves in what we do.
 
I would say that Practice Piano is not a project because there is no outcome. Practice Piano X hours per week/month has a definite outcome so your next action would be schedule Y hours in calendar to practice. That’s a firm commitment to yourself to practice. I would then keep a log of hours practiced so you can adjust your sessions accordingly to stay on track.

Doug
 
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To me, repeating actions are natural. They may repeat for a while until a project is actually complete ("check lettuce seedlings water level/water if necessary" for a few weeks until the seedlings are ready for the next step), or they may repeat forever ("fertilize shed roses" at intervals every year until the end of time or until the shed roses die).

I do see that the second "repeat until the end of time" category doesn't quite feel like a project. If you don't want those thing in your project-and-action lists, you could move them out into checklists or some other format that reminds you without cluttering up those project-and-action lists.

But things that are repeated inside a project, and someday come to an end--like your math lectures--do seem to me to be a quite natural element in the project-and-action lists.

Returning to add:

Sergey Gamayunov said:
Hi everbody,

GTD system is designed for projects that have certain steps and end when all step are completed. We determine exact actions to complete the project, create list of them and toss the next one to the NEXT ACTIONS list. But what if my project is not like this?
Click to expand...

This is, IMO, not an accurate description of GTD. It's rare--in fact, it's almost un-heard-of--for me to determine exact actions to complete a project. I create the project, I give it at least one next action, I might do a little planning on the side, but coming up with a full plan for the whole project is not something I do.
 
The great thing about learning to play music is it is lots of little projects. Each of the pieces I am learning on the guitar is a sub-project. I usually study three pieces at any one time, the end-point being "to the satisfaction of my teacher and myself". So my current sub-projects are
  1. learn Garcia's study no 12 - next action: sort out the fingering for the final section
  2. learn Brouwer's study no 6 - next action: increase speed on first section to one that sounds msuical
  3. learn La Rossignol duet - next action: master the skill of playing grace notes while holding down a chord
I expect to complete La Rossignol at my next lesson, at which time my teacher will give me a new piece to study.

However there is no end-point to say "I have learnt to play the guitar" because it depends how good at it I want to be. There are markers along the way e.g. this time last year I was playing grade 4 pieces, now I am playing grade 5 pieces (and my teacher sneaked in a grade 6 just to challenge me). I am not going to sit any music exams, but if you are, then each exam is a sub-project.

I don't put "do guitar practice" in my next actions - that goes in my daily mental checklist. It is what I do after breakfast, but before tackling my paperwork. In fact I don't have the sub-projects written in my next action list as they are obvious when I pick up the pieces of music I am practising,
 
RuthMcT said:
However there is no end-point to say "I have learnt to play the guitar" because it depends how good at it I want to be. There are markers along the way e.g. this time last year I was playing grade 4 pieces, now I am playing grade 5 pieces (and my teacher sneaked in a grade 6 just to challenge me). I am not going to sit any music exams, but if you are, then each exam is a sub-project.

I don't put "do guitar practice" in my next actions - that goes in my daily mental checklist. It is what I do after breakfast, but before tackling my paperwork. In fact I don't have the sub-projects written in my next action list as they are obvious when I pick up the pieces of music I am practising,
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Exactly. I have been playing for many years, and I’m usually working on multiple aspects of music at once: pieces I am arranging, different styles of playing, chordal palettes, et cetera. I could break it all down in terms of next actions, projects, area of focus, and so forth, but I don’t need to. If I were learning a new instrument, it would be completely different.
 
I second what others have said about being more specific about what you’re doing. But I also want to be clear on an important point. When I say capture everything in my system, I don't mean everything literally.

Things that are muscle memory or ritualized don't need to be captured. I wake every morning and meditate. I would only add it to my system if I were trying to build a habit, e.g., schedule 20 minutes every morning with a reminder. Or perhaps I would note it as contributing to an area of focus designated Health & Wellness.

GTD allows you to get things off your mind so that you can live in the moment and experience bursts of creativity and serendipity. That sometimes means completely ignoring your lists and choosing to do something spontaneously. Trying to capture everything will likely lead to frustration and burnout.
 
First of all, thank you all of you for your responses! I do appreciate it!

The approach suggested by @TesTeq and @RuthMcT would work fine I believe but needs a lot of additional work! If the course has 24 lectures, I need to copy-paste 24 times in my Next Action list! But generally I agree that for now there are no better solutions.

Another approach is offered by @mcogilvie I would call "If you enjoy something then it should not be a project". I disagree. It could be true if we talked about some form of leisure like playing video games but practicing music instruments needs discipline, perseverance and diligence. Sometimes it is not fun at all! I want to have practicing and math studying in my system because those are tough! I want to see the list of tasks for today and then relax when they are accomplished, I want to track progress of the projects after all.

Also it worth to mention @thomasbk 's opinion, he's totally right. I would never put something like "Have a lunch" in my system. But I still think that playing piano is not just spare time for me, it is a skill that I have to develop, put some effort into it.

Another problem can occur: I don't know how to track regularity of execution of my task. Ideally I'd like to practice everyday, both piano and guitar, watch a math lecture, etc. If I leave it as is, no projects, no next actions, I can end that I will skip two or three days in practice (when I am simply not in the piano mood), because all these activities will sit in my memory — the problem that we want to avoid in GTD.

Summarising all feedback I would say that there are no silver bullet. I wanna go with mini projects, for me personally the list of actions like this:

* play French Suite, Allemande, bars 9-12
* play Carcassi Etude, op. 60, no. 12, bars 1-4
* watch MIT Calculus, lecture 2
* watch Udemy Course, CoreData in iOS, section 7

looks much better than this:

* play piano
* play guitar
* learn some math
* learn some iOS stuff

At least I would feel more motivated if I saw my progress.

Anyway, I'd like to thank all of you!
 
Sergey Gamayunov said:
First of all, thank you all of you for your responses! I do appreciate it!

The approach suggested by @TesTeq and @RuthMcT would work fine I believe but needs a lot of additional work! If the course has 24 lectures, I need to copy-paste 24 times in my Next Action list! But generally I agree that for now there are no better solutions.
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This is actually what I would do as well. I am not particularly big on tracking progress in things like exercise or music, because it seems artificial and I don't use it. As a physics professor, I track every lecture, and periodically review where I am in getting through the course.

Sergey Gamayunov said:
Another approach is offered by @mcogilvie I would call "If you enjoy something then it should not be a project". I disagree. It could be true if we talked about some form of leisure like playing video games but practicing music instruments needs discipline, perseverance and diligence. Sometimes it is not fun at all! I want to have practicing and math studying in my system because those are tough! I want to see the list of tasks for today and then relax when they are accomplished, I want to track progress of the projects after all.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstand my point, which is sort-of advanced GTD. The point of GTD is to get stuff out of your head so you have an objective list of what you have to do. This makes it possible to blow off those commitments for a while so that you can have fun playing music, take a walk, hang out with someone important to you. If music and math are necessary drudgery for you, by all means drudge away.

Sergey Gamayunov said:
Also it worth to mention @thomasbk 's opinion, he's totally right. I would never put something like "Have a lunch" in my system. But I still think that playing piano is not just spare time for me, it is a skill that I have to develop, put some effort into it.

Another problem can occur: I don't know how to track regularity of execution of my task. Ideally I'd like to practice everyday, both piano and guitar, watch a math lecture, etc. If I leave it as is, no projects, no next actions, I can end that I will skip two or three days in practice (when I am simply not in the piano mood), because all these activities will sit in my memory — the problem that we want to avoid in GTD.

Summarising all feedback I would say that there are no silver bullet. I wanna go with mini projects, for me personally the list of actions like this:

* play French Suite, Allemande, bars 9-12
* play Carcassi Etude, op. 60, no. 12, bars 1-4
* watch MIT Calculus, lecture 2
* watch Udemy Course, CoreData in iOS, section 7

looks much better than this:

* play piano
* play guitar
* learn some math
* learn some iOS stuff

At least I would feel more motivated if I saw my progress.
Click to expand...
Here's more philosophy of GTD stuff: There is always more to do than you can do. There is always more: more music, more math, more programming skills. There is always more email, the trash needs to go out, et cetera. Sometimes the things that motivate us are external: teachers, bosses, parents, spouses. Sometimes the motivation is immediate gratification. However, the things which are most important to us are often on what GTD conceptualizes as levels above next actions (level 0) and projects (level 1). These are the higher levels, which start at area of focus (level 2), and go up to life purpose (level 5). These are often the things that sustain us when motivation is hard to come by: "I am practicing piano because I want to play Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue" might be a higher-level goal. It's true: "watch MIT Calculus, lecture 2" is an easier next action than "learn some math." But unless you know why you want to learn some math, it's going to be hard to motivate yourself to learn math. Now your goals might be somewhat removed from your next action: "become a financial analyst" is a bit removed from "take multivariable calculus course" but they are related. Or you might have a goal "Do whatever it takes to get out of this small town" which might lead you in more than one direction.


Sergey Gamayunov said:
Anyway, I'd like to thank all of you!
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Your are very welcome!
 
I would just add a reminder: the project list is also a list of reminders that need to be evaluated to get closer to certain results. If your aim is just to practice piano regularly, it may be a project but it does not need a reminder if you don't need it, the recurrent action in a daily checklist or booking some timeslots in your calendar may be enough. That way you don't have a reminder of an active project you may feel you will never finish, because everyday you show up is a victory, so measuring it at action level is enough.
 
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