I want you to test this stuff out, even challenge it.

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The root of the reason why this thread was started is the assumption that GTD must be considered a psychological/philosophical life system, and therefore subject to intense scrutiny.

So, instead of debating the merits of the philosophical principles, I'd like to hold up a mirror and ask why exactly GTD must be considered a psychological/philosophical life system.

And I personally believe that the underlying motivation to treat GTD like that is to tie GTD to the other stuff the poster mentioned before. And not to treat it as an independent system of practical productivity. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
 
Is GTD more than merely a productivity system?

moises said:
I think that ProjectThis is raising some profound issues. I think that at the most fundamental level, ProjectThis is correct. GTD is not merely a productivity system. It embodies a worldview, a psychology, and a philosophy.
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Interesting thought, indeed!

But if GTD really embodies a worldview, a psychology, and a philosophy, then I must have completely missed it. GTD the way I use it is a method for productivity (efficiency) while doing my work (at the office and at home), but nothing more.

Btw, I think it's okay to write everything down what's on my mind, but what about the things that are not in my mind, although they should be? How do you find the stuff that has already fallen through the cracks several years ago? And what about the consequences of the opportunities that you've missed without noticing?

Rainer
 
Rainer Burmeister said:
Interesting thought, indeed!

But if GTD really embodies a worldview, a psychology, and a philosophy, then I must have completely missed it. GTD the way I use it is a method for productivity (efficiency) while doing my work (at the office and at home), but nothing more.

Rainer
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In my opinion you didn't miss it... If folks want to tie their time up in discussion about whether or not GTD represents a "worldview" "Philosphy" or "Physchology" let em.

Me personally? I will be using as a productivity method that allows me to take that time and get things done... It's my (your) choice how to use it, no matter the Author/Creators intent
 
To ProjectThis! or not to ProjectThis! ...

... that is the question.

ProjectThis! said:
-Organizations. I don't think the full GTD process can be fully implemented in an organization, and I don't know if that is even desirable. It would be interesting to see objective 3rd party research on the results of attempting this. Also, getting groups to behave and think together in this fashion can lead to GroupThink. I personally would not want everyone to be thinking and acting in the same way in a group or organization, I personally find that somewhat creepy. Also, getting in my head that others should be more GTD-like, is going to make me more stressed. The bottom line is, if I am not their boss, or even if I am, I basically have to learn to accept a lot of 'unacceptable' human behavior that I don't like in people. If my expectations for others behavior are unrealistic, I am going to suffer, with frustration, anger and even intolerance.


One way to reach GOALS in organizations is that ALL of the members in the team/group/your staff know the direction the company/business/office is going. `Cause, if people pulling to all directions, well... were will we strand


-clear Psychic RAM. Does having clear psychic RAM make us more productive? Is it even possible to achieve this state? Is keeping 'everything out of your head' an achievable goal? Does not writing down a call make a person stressed? I don't know if it does. I know many people who are not particularly stressed, and they keep lots of things in their heads. I also know people who write everything down who are a mess. So again, I would think this could benefit from some careful testing, to see if it backfires for certain people. Also, there is often a genetic temperament component with these types of issues.

I live after the motto: If you can think it, ink it...

I say no more, the other GTD:eer know what I´m talking about..

If you can handle all this lists in your head, well... you don´t need GTD.

http://www.davidco.com/tips_tools/tip2.html



-Stress-free productivity. I think that is obviously a catch-phrase, but I am not sure again, that is realistic. Reduced stress? Well, that can be objectively measured. Increased productivity? That also can be measured. But there ain't no such thing as 'stress-free' on this planet. But again, these things can be measured objectively by 3rd parties. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if the GTD process made certain types of people more stressed out? Is getting a Mind Like Water a realistic goal? Or is it another unattainable concept?

a realistic goal is to feel relaxed. The trick is to use a system that you can trust and feel "comfy" with... don´t overwork it, don´t underestimate it.. work the system, and the system will work for you....

-GTD as a global thought process. David mentions that is his mission. But on a personal level, can the GTD methodology be gainfully applied to both our professions, and with our wives and kids? I personally think it is going way too far to push this type of systems thinking into one's intimate relationships, which is why most people 'grimace' when hearing the idea of directing the wife to your Inbox. I don't want to be hit on the head one day with an Inbox.


Is it better to be hit on the head ´cause you missed to do something crusial, and if you hade tried GTD better, you probably wouldn´t get that smack on your head ´cause you didn´t miss that critical thing.

:confused:

Isn´t better that you, ProjectThis! live up to the forumname you have, and do what it says, ProjectThis and soon will you discover that you where wrong all the time... nagging on a system that helps so many of us other...

For the rest of us who know what GTD is all about, keep on GTD:ing and have a good life, be well organized, feel that you are without stress, a peaceful mind and your soul full of joy.

// Popeye
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ActionGirl said:
I don't think GTD provides an answer to the question, "What is the meaning of life?" Sure, it is most compatible or relevant to views of human life as purposive or goal oriented, but it does not provide any direction or substantive content in and of itself. GTD could be used in service of just about any vision.

I have no problem with these sorts of questions. They can be rather interesting, but that kind of discussion is much more likely to take off from a focused criticism of a specific concept or claim rather than this scattershot approach.

And if anyone does know the meaning of life, please tell me. ;-)
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You are absolutely correct that GTD "does not provide any . . . substantive content." You are right that GTD does not dictate the ends we are to pursue. It provides a method to organize the means to our self-determined ends. If GTD said we ought all to be like Elizabeth Taylor or Thomas Merton or Frank Sinatra or Emma Goldman, we would all be writing posts disputing GTD's paradigm of the good life. Instead, GTD presupposes a more aesthetic conception of the meaning of life, more of a conception of life as expression. We can admire Giotto and Warhol. We can admire lives in which inner dreams and thoughts were successfully realized in the external world.

So GTD is not a stalking horse for Baba Ram Dass or Gandhi. It can be used for infinitely many ends. It represents a contemporary model of human freedom that celebrates lives where projects and enterprises were realized, even when those projects and enterprises are not congruent with our own.

GTD is consistent with contemporary models of human freedom. Most of us prefer to live in a state where we can pursue goals and purposes that we set for our selves. We do not want the state to tell us whether to worship or not, or which god to worship. We don't want the state to tell us which substantive model of human good to follow. We want to live in a state where we make our own individual judgements about what the good is. And we want a productivity system compatible with such political freedoms. GTD is such a productivity system.
 
GTD = more fun

Actually enjoying this discussion. "Why GTD?" is a fair question and thanks for everyone's answers so far.

Don't know of any academic studies, but I believe that GTD has been tested more than a little in the crucible known as Wall Street. IMHO, if GTD works at the lightning-quick pace of the financial markets, that's proof enough for me.

Even in my far-from-perfect implementation, it adapts well to the imperfections and ambiguities of the real world.

Not paying a $35 late fee because I put the credit card bill in my tickler file is no small benefit.

For me, it's a set of simple yet elegant tools that make day-to-day living better.

As David himself says "there's no wrong way to do GTD". Have fun!
 
playing the same game

I am also enjoying this thread and really happy to hear it's come back into the forum. I appreciate the comments of those of you requesting to focus on iistening to ProjectThis!' comments and kudos to all of you who've given up your stance of defense - this thread clearly has come a long way!

There are some great assertions that have come to our attention. ProjectThis! has clearly given many of his points substantial thought. It humbles me when many of you bring reserach citations into the picture and cannot make any claims I've gone this deep into analysis by any means!

That said, I'm happy to see we've surfaced above the nitty gritty implementation and technology talk.

I, too, am inquiring exactly how GTD is deployed at an organizational level. Popeye, you make a great point around alighment. IMHO, it's one of the greatest insights I got out of John Nash's theory as presented by the movie, A Beautiful Mind - we all have to play the same game to win - like it or not! If you haven't seen the special feature where Ron Howard interviews Nash - go watch it!

Now of course, once we play the same game, everyone has their own life ;-)
 
I'm thankful that ProjectThis started this thread. It made me think of some parts of the book I'm not comfortable with.

We all recognize ourselves in - as the book states - "Bright people procrastinate the most". And no risk for bright people to get tangled up in some cult, right? Well, I also thought I was bright, but perhaps I'm not. I hadn't thought about this beeing an intro to a cult at all (I'm not from California).

Immediately one passage in the book spring to mind.

"When relationships and organizations has the collection habit" (page 233-). - Classic us against them. We, the enlightened, think non-adaptors behave unacceptably.

So, is GTD the intro to a "cult", starting with an invitation to GTD connect and then to seminars and then? Who knows? I hope this discussion can continue, so that we all are aware of the possibility. I will still use most of the recommendations in the book.
 
I hoped that this thread was dead.

justanengineer said:
I hope this discussion can continue, so that we all are aware of the possibility. I will still use most of the recommendations in the book.
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I hoped that this thread was dead.
 
Yes, whatever you do, don't "challenge this stuff", don't think for yourself, don't question or analyze or use your critical faculties.
Don't ask for objective evidence.
Don't raise questions and expect full disclosure.

Don't question your "coach" and ask them how their bread gets buttered.

Just Believe.
 
ProjectThis!: You sound thirsty. Here have some koolaid. ;)

In all seriousnees, this is an old thread. Everyone has expressed their veiws. Let's move on to the next topic.
 
ProjectThis! said:
Yes, whatever you do, don't "challenge this stuff", don't think for yourself, don't question or analyze or use your critical faculties.
Don't ask for objective evidence.
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Oh please. I get objective evidence every time I look at my own productivity metrics. I analyze what works and what doesn't every time I do a weekly review. I don't know or care whether DA is a Buddhist, a Christian, or a three-headed alien with purple spots. The method works for me.

Katherine

PS Oh yeah. I was tracking productivity metrics and doing weekly reviews before I knew GTD existed. That's why I trust them.
 
Huh?

justanengineer said:
So, is GTD the intro to a "cult", starting with an invitation to GTD connect and then to seminars and then? Who knows? I hope this discussion can continue, so that we all are aware of the possibility. I will still use most of the recommendations in the book.
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You guys are taking this way too seriously. Give us a break from all these conspiracy/religion/philosophy rantings. You sound like you don't have independent thought yourself when you say such moronic things. It just brings bad energy to all of us who are trying to be more productive and have fun at it.

There are always those trying to bring others down. That's all you're doing. You're probably just jealous that David Allen had a good idea that he wanted to share with other human beings so you sit around and try to think about how you can write something libel against him and his work. It's shameful.

If you don't like it, go do something else.
 
To Darla: You are wrong on all accounts. I wanted to share my own thoughts. If you don't like them, fine. If you don't appreciate me thinking of my own, that's fine too.

To Max: Yes, it's an old thread, and now I also have shared my view.
 
Californication?

Okay, I can relate to the fear of being "californicated" by that GTD methodology.

Well, being an European I'd say "Take what you need, and leave the rest."

Rainer
 
Thinking for Myself!

Rainer Burmeister said:
Okay, I can relate to the fear of being "californicated" by that GTD methodology.

Well, being an European I'd say "Take what you need, and leave the rest."
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Well, being an American, I'd say, "Take what you need, and leave the rest."

:) That happens to be one of my favorite suggestions to clients.

Carolyn
 
justanengineer said:
To Darla: You are wrong on all accounts. I wanted to share my own thoughts. If you don't like them, fine. If you don't appreciate me thinking of my own, that's fine too.

To Max: Yes, it's an old thread, and now I also have shared my view.
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You have every right to voice your own thoughts. However, I encourage you to seriously consider what you're doing here and what your intentions are.

You are not simply voicing an opinion. You are disparaging someone's reputation and livelihood.

Further, you are doing it within a FREE forum provided by the person you are disparaging.

You have no proof of what you're talking about. It makes me question your intentions and those of the person who started this thread.

It IS shameful that you are using this forum to disparage another person's reputation. It just is. If you don't have a moral or ethical flash go off in your head when you talk about another person that way (with no proof as far as I can tell) then perhaps you should be reminded it is actually illegal to slander another person or company.

You have the right to free speech... use it wisely. Think about how you would feel if someone said this about you, at your work, in front of your peers, your employees, your customers.

Darla
 
darlakbrown said:
It IS shameful that you are using this forum to disparage another person's reputation. It just is. If you don't have a moral or ethical flash go off in your head when you talk about another person that way (with no proof as far as I can tell) then perhaps you should be reminded it is actually illegal to slander another person or company.
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I haven't mentioned any person.
I haven't mentioned any company.
I haven't stated that GTD is a cult.

3-4 people have raised concern. Pretending we are operating together is just plain silly.
 
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