Low Season? Forum Features? Clarity of Mind Unchanged?

[Folke]

Just wondering why it has been so quiet here lately.

Maybe this is the time of year when people in the Northern hemisphere are busy preparing for their summer vacations and people in the Southern hemisphere are busy stocking up piles of food for the long, hard winter ;-)

Or maybe the minor shortcomings of the new forum software was all it took for people to abandon ship? The drop in activity seems to have coincided with the switchover.

Or maybe there was just too much philisophizing over the same old questions over and over? Same questions; same answers; same standpoints; nothing new.

One "big" question that I would like to find an answer to is whether it would be possible for the David Allen company and the forum users here to crystallize a set of very clear requirements and "anti-requirements" (dos and don'ts) both for app developers and for the very interpretation of DA's principles and guidelines. It seems to me that both for better and for worse these guidelines are quite flexible and customizable, often "entry-level", and leave a lot of room for debate on details, enhancements and other unclarities. This debate is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but is definitely quite repetitive. A clear and authoritative detailed guideline by David Allen and/or this community might help speed up the development of even more precise task management practices and also of new apps that truly suit these practices.

 

[Gardener]

Or maybe the minor shortcomings of the new forum software was all it took for people to abandon ship? The drop in activity seems to have coincided with the switchover.

I think that's it. The forum just barely had critical mass; I think that those shortcomings caused it to fall below that critical mass.

 

[PeterW]

I think that's it. The forum just barely had critical mass; I think that those shortcomings caused it to fall below that critical mass.

I agree, and said just after the switchover that problems with the new forums would probably lead to a drop-off in activity. Sadly this has come to pass.

 

[TesTeq]

Just wondering why it has been so quiet here lately.

In my opinion (and I don't want to hurt anybody) the forum was seriously hit twice in the recent 6 months:
1. Kelly Forrister, The Forum Wrangler, departure.
2. New software (I think Kelly would not allow to implement untested upgrade).

 

[mommoe436]

Personally I have found the content of the forum over at least the past 6 months to be argumentative and more negative, with posters defending their points, as though every person, job and personal life is the same and should be implementing and handling GTD in the same way - rather than treating this as a method in which each person can implement to fit their needs. I believe that others, especially newbies, are put off by this - and would shy away from commenting, asking questions or just sharing.

When I first started, I found everyone in the forums to be helpful and supportive, willing to share and not judge, making it easy for anyone to be comfortable posting. Some postings have become very long and mostly opinions (often presented as fact) and while there might be some helpful info in these postings, I generally skip over. Some topics seem to have been started just to create a forum for debate and that is not something I am looking for - I am looking for helpful information that will make my GTD practice better. While the first questions in this topic are good (because I would like to get back to the way the forum used to be), the last question is exactly what I am not interested in getting from this forum - I do not believe there is a "one size fits all" nor any need to debate or get specific guidelines or rules - those are already set out in David's books. That is the beauty of GTD. IMHO.

The new software has not impacted my use of the forum, but the negative comments and focus on the problems of the software has.

PS I believe the departure of Kelly has impacted the forum, as with any change - how could it not?

 

[Folke]

Personally I have found the content of the forum over at least the past 6 months to be argumentative and more negative

That is about as long as I have been here. Hopefully this is just a coincidence.

I can certainly understand the great value of having a forum where people help each other with tips and tricks to get their own personalized system in place. In fact, this wouldn't even need to be GTD. It could be totally flexible. But having a common terminology and reference examples usually helps, and the GTD books provide a good start.

I do not believe there is a "one size fits all" ...

I agree.

... nor any need to debate or get specific guidelines or rules - those are already set out in David's books.

I personally think it is fun to discuss what is more effective, under what circumstances, pros and cons etc. Maybe I am a nerd. I think it is also a great way to both learn and to develop our own practices - and to move the world forward by establishing what is generally viable and what is generally just a false hope. But I realize we are all different in that regard. I hope there is room for us all.

I disagree that the books' guidelines are clear. There is a huge range of interpretations of virtually every little detail. Also, the vast majority of the message is essentially the same whether you hear it from David Allen, Mark Forster, Stephen Covey or from you or from me or from George Washington or Winnie the Pooh. (We have to clear our desk, read our messages and decide what to do with them etc etc etc - and it is smart to keep track of what others "owe" us, i.e. Waiting For, and it is smart to see it all in a longer perspective from time to time, i.e. horizons, etc etc etc). There are so many interpretations of what GTD is that is has almost become synonymous with "staying organized", and it is also so similar to so much in so many of the rivaling "staying organized" methodologies that most of what is said about any of these is actually quite insignificant for the choice - "Drive a Mercedes. It is clearly the best choice because it has four wheels, a steering wheel, engine, headlights, everything". Just like GTD has next actions and projects. Wow.

I actually think GTD has certain traits that are a bit unusual, a bit distinctive - and important. I believe it would be good for the world if those traits were made more clearly visible and distinct, and also why they are generally the better bet.

I hope my answer does not strike you as "argumentative and negative". Well, I would have to agree with "argumentative", but I hope not "negative".

 

[vbampton]

Personally I have found the content of the forum over at least the past 6 months to be argumentative and more negative

An excellent observation. Thinking back, I think you're right.

 

[mcogilvie]

I agree with Tes that the departure of Kelly and the new web site are both issues. I am also wondering if the bloom is off the GTD rose in a more general way.

 

[tawaters]

Yeah, I had the same thoughts about Kelly's departure. In most companies that I've been at over the years, if a replacement isn't brought in when someone leaves, their responsibilities are distributed to other folks who themselves are already fully loaded with work. Not that the remaining Connect folks aren't trying, but there are only so many hours in the day.

I'm also concerned about the long-term hit to the Connect program. I see the current quietness as the immediate symptom, but with quiet forums & (to me) a drop off in new podcasts/webinars* the future result could be the drop off in Connect membership.

*(personally, I'd love to see a new In-Conversation monthly with how folks are applying GTD)

Tom

 

[PeterW]

Personally I have found the content of the forum over at least the past 6 months to be argumentative and more negative, with posters defending their points, as though every person, job and personal life is the same and should be implementing and handling GTD in the same way - rather than treating this as a method in which each person can implement to fit their needs. I believe that others, especially newbies, are put off by this - and would shy away from commenting, asking questions or just sharing.

PS I believe the departure of Kelly has impacted the forum, as with any change - how could it not?

I totally agree with you about the content of some of the posts over the past 6 months. It's become awfully complex, especially the discussions about systems that seem complex enough to manage a space shuttle launch. The focus should be simplicity.

I didn't realise that Kelly had left although I am not a connect member.

 

[mommoe436]

I actually think GTD has certain traits that are a bit unusual, a bit distinctive - and important. I believe it would be good for the world if those traits were made more clearly visible and distinct, and also why they are generally the better bet..

Likely you are preaching to the choir - those on the forum, especially Connect Members, are not likely looking to be convinced. The books, webinars, info on GTD piques interest, but I believe the best way to see the benefits, and understand the concepts, is to "just do it."

David Allen seems pretty clear that he is teaching concepts that can then be customized for each person's tools, personalities, environment, job, etc. There are probably as many ways to implement and do GTD as there are people - and the concepts can be used in whatever way works best for each person. DAC has many set-up guides which provide details, guidelines and suggestions, but you do not have to follow any of those to practice GTD.

Just my perspective, for what its worth.

 

[Oogiem]

I know my participation is lower primarily because of the forum software that makes it harder to find and participate in conversations I am interested in.

 

[Folke]

There are probably as many ways to implement and do GTD as there are people.

Yes, probably. And that probably goes for most other methodologies as well. Every individual will have a "My Way". In that sense the methodology does not matter. I can call my way "My Way" or I can call it by any teacher, thinker, author or guru that I care to give credit to or whose name I'd like to lend credibility to "My Way".

But I think what this discussion really boils down to is whether we talk about GTD as a methodology or as a way of teaching. Take algebra as an example. You can have two different books about exactly the same algebra, but the way it is being explained in one of these books may make it so much easier to understand. The same kind of difference will apply when you compare different teachers' way to explain actions and projects. Even if the substance of their teaching is the same, one of the descriptions may make you say "Aaa, I see. Absolutely brilliant!", whereas the other teacher's explanation leaves you cold (or even numb).

I actually agree with you almost 100% that no further guidelines may be necessary - not for the purpose of providing guidelines as such to GTD followers. People have received so much advice from DA and other authors that it should be possible for anyone to devise his or her own "My Way".

But if you want to see GTD more as a methodology, as an "ideological statement", then it is not good enough to say that GTD is just like everything else, that it is whatever anyone wants it to be. On the contrary, it is then necessary (just like in marketing or in scientific analysis) to put your finger on the significant differences.

The way I see it, GTD and some of its rivals are on one side of a huge divide. On the opposite side are the "time control" methodologies, those that claim that since time is our scarcest resource we must take control of time itself - we must budget time quotas for different types of activities and purposes in proportion to their importance, even schedule these time allotments firmly on a calendar, and/or sequence their execution in priority order, and must measure time afterwards to improve our time estimation skills etc etc. This is so totally different from the GTD-type schools, where unpredictable factors like energy and the whole situation play a large role, and where our very ability to predict events is played down. DA himself argues against these "time" based schools. Both he and I saw their negative effect on people in the '80s when they spread like wildfire. They are still strong, unfortunately. So if we want to "save the world" as "missionaries" I think we need to constantly improve our tools for explaining why situation based, fact based task management is better than prematurely making firm timing decisions or priority sequencing decisions that we execute blindly. And we need to prove that even with our seemingly ad hoc (or intuitive) methods we can exercise full control over our lives, and perhaps even make better use of our time overall. To show such benefits more clearly, as "missionaries", we could have good use for super-clear super-short "guidelines" etc, and we could also make good use of some "official" detailed descriptions of the methodology itself in "advanced" cases.

I am also wondering if the bloom is off the GTD rose in a more general way.

I think so, too. Judging by how the term GTD is used in normal app forums, perhaps mostly by people who never read any of the books, it seems to be used increasingly synonymously with terms such as "task management" or "productivity". It does not seem to carry or convey and particular meaning beyond that. So I would not think anyone who hears the term GTD in such a context would become intrigued with it or bother to read any of the material.

 

[Gardener]

And we need to prove that even with our seemingly ad hoc (or intuitive) methods we can exercise full control over our lives, and perhaps even make better use of our time overall

I would say that GTD is in part a way of dealing with the fact that we can't exercise full control over our lives. The time-based systems pretend that that control is possible--GTD accepts that it is not. GTD guides you through the thoughts and planning and prioritizing that allow you to adjust when something changes, whether it's a small change that causes you to work on a different project from the done that you'd planned on, or a huge one that causes you to look at your life goals.

 

[TesTeq]

Personally I have found the content of the forum over at least the past 6 months to be argumentative and more negative, with posters defending their points, as though every person, job and personal life is the same and should be implementing and handling GTD in the same way - rather than treating this as a method in which each person can implement to fit their needs. I believe that others, especially newbies, are put off by this - and would shy away from commenting, asking questions or just sharing.

In the ancient times GTD Forum community has survived much more. The negativity you perceive now is about implementation details and interpretation of some "GTD commandments". I joined the GTD Forum in 2003 and was a witness of big campaigns against the whole methodology, personal attacks (even David Allen himself was a target), tread hijacks and deleting users by administrator.

I think nobody is forced to read all the comments and even if somebody asks a standard newbie question for the hundreth time in the history of the forum (instead of using the search function) he can count on at least one good answer.

 

[TesTeq]

I actually agree with you almost 100% that no further guidelines may be necessary - not for the purpose of providing guidelines as such to GTD followers.

David Allen works on the revised GTD book. I hope it will clarify some common misconceptions.

 

[mcogilvie]

David Allen works on the revised GTD book. I hope it will clarify some common misconceptions.

It's an interesting time. As a point of reference, I looked at the trajectory of Franklin-Covey. They moved from corporate training into a more public-facing posture, but have retreated back to corporate training. They had a lot of problems along the way, e.g., the Franklin-Covey merger was rocky and they had a failing strategy to deal with non-paper systems. They appear to have closed all their retail operations, and sell their products on the web and in office supply stores through what is probably a wholly-owned subsidiary. I think the most likely eventual outcome for DAC is also to fade from public consciousness and retreat to corporate training. The revised GTD book might change things, of course.

 

[Barb]

It's an interesting time. As a point of reference, I looked at the trajectory of Franklin-Covey. They moved from corporate training into a more public-facing posture, but have retreated back to corporate training. They had a lot of problems along the way, e.g., the Franklin-Covey merger was rocky and they had a failing strategy to deal with non-paper systems. They appear to have closed all their retail operations, and sell their products on the web and in office supply stores through what is probably a wholly-owned subsidiary. I think the most likely eventual outcome for DAC is also to fade from public consciousness and retreat to corporate training. The revised GTD book might change things, of course.

Not sure why you think "retreat" is in the cards. They have expanded internationally and David has actually just moved to Amsterdam. I'm sure there is lots of untapped potential there. But will that mean resources will continue toward Connect and this (free) forum? I don't know the plan. But if the company were going to just go for corporate training they wouldn't bother with such a huge international presence.

 

[mcogilvie]

Not sure why you think "retreat" is in the cards. They have expanded internationally and David has actually just moved to Amsterdam. I'm sure there is lots of untapped potential there. But will that mean resources will continue toward Connect and this (free) forum? I don't know the plan. But if the company were going to just go for corporate training they wouldn't bother with such a huge international presence.

I don't want to offend anyone, least of all our hosts, but DAC is still a small company that relies heavily on the intellectual capital of its founder. That's essentially how Franklin-Covey started too. There's nothing unusual about exiting consumer space, either, even for big companies. IBM went in with the PC and then got out. Dell is headed that way. I'm taking the long view here.

 

[TesTeq]

They have expanded internationally and David has actually just moved to Amsterdam.

Report from Poland:

Yes, there's a Certified Franchisee of the David Allen Company in Poland (DOOR Group S.A.) and I attended their first public seminar. Or second because the first one was canceled due to a lack of participants. The quality was very good but only 10 people attended. Why? Because it was priced at the corporate level and there was no DAC or Door Group S.A. presence in places where productivity enthusiasts meet.

International expansion? Yes! Consumer? No way!