Missing chapter in David Allen's book.

Tom_Hagen

Tom_Hagen

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Most of the participants in this forum will probably agree that the GTD method works and brings a lot of satisfaction. The mere habit of collecting makes the difference. The analysis and determination of next actions in the project is nothing more than algorithmic thinking known in computer science. Once - for example - I decided to make wine. I didn't know how to do it at all. Using GTD techniques, I decided to: search the Internet for the article "How to Make Wine". Buy a container for wine, yeast ... etc. Make the wine according to the procedure. And I did it.

Reading this forum, however, I noticed that quite a few questions relate directly or indirectly to the "do" phase. And this is, in my opinion, the missing chapter in David Allen's book. Yes, the author discusses the choice models: context, energy, priorities, time, etc. However, there are more questions than there are answers. Why? Because the whole GTD system is ... just plain pleasant. When we collect, organize, list, etc., we feel a "boost" of dopamine. Worse when it comes to "doing". Not all tasks are fun. Not all of them bring joy. Maybe you have a boring report to write, or you need to do something that you feel mentally resistant to. Hence the questions about the granularity of the next actions, hence the comments about task overload. Not everything is so obvious. The answers are given: divide the tasks into parts to make you feel motivated to do them. This is not always good advice: if someone is a programmer, write 5 methods or 2 classes will be expensive. It is often better to sit down and spend a few days just working on such a project. It takes a lot of time and energy to go back to the code after a few days - there are a lot of things you need to remember to continue. Another statement - divide the activities so that you can perform them in one step. And here again doubts arise. For example, reading a book or writing it requires some artificial, arbitrary division. One day I can read 10 pages, another 150. If I set myself 150 pages a day, should I not read a book when I have 20 minutes free? Of course I should.

On this forum, I have read comments that concerned too long a list of next actions: treat them as a menu in a restaurant - choose what you want. This is not always the case here as well. If you learn a foreign language, everyone will tell you that it is best to be systematic: shorter but more often, preferably daily. In that case, the restaurant menu approach cannot be used. It takes some kind of self-discipline.

Each of us is different. And perhaps each of us needs a slightly different solution. Oogiem seems to be happier the longer the lists are;) however, many of us having such lists would prefer not to get out of bed at all;).

Therefore, it seems to me that the "doing" phase would require additional and in-depth discussion. Perhaps it would be worth giving diverse techniques and diverse suggestions. We know, after all, that GTD is not a rigid system. His strength is, among others: flexibility. Hence the title of this message - in my opinion such an additional chapter would be very interesting and inspiring for all of us.

Or maybe it's not a chapter topic, but rather a book? Eg "GTD in examples"?
 
I think doing (or engaging in the revised GTD terminology) is so different for each of us that it can be hard to find much that is universal. I see that pretty clearly in discussions and interviews David Allen and others have done. Conceptual models like the five stages of workflow and the natural planning model lead up to and lead away from doing, but don’t address the many forms that doing takes. It’s different for everyone.

When I look at some of your specific examples, I find that I know what I would do for many of them, as a result of experience both with GTD and with the subject. I have learned enough of several different foreign languages to get by when traveling. I think I could still do ok in French, Italian, Japanese and Hebrew with some work. I know what that work looks like, and I know how to use tools like my calendar, tickler system and lists to support the work. I used to write a lot more code than I do today, but I still do some. Programming has some similarity with language learning, but has additional logical and creative aspects. There is a large literature on how people can learn programming, be better at it, et cetera. I don’t think David Allen is going to give us the final word there. Finally, you mention reading and writing books. Again, there is a lot of literature on writing; some of the best of of it is congruent with GTD. As it happens, I am in the middle of proofing volume 1 of a textbook I am writing, while also working on completing volume 2. Honestly, I find the best comparison to be with what I’ve read about warfare: aphorisms like “plans mean nothing, but planning is everything” or “no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.” The process is iterative at several levels and involves constant decision making. I find that is consistent with GTD models too.

The examples you cited all have one thing in common: they all typically involve regular, sustained work over time. Some people like to approach things like language learning and book reading as habits: 10 pages a day, for example. I think habits are GTD-adjacent, but don’t fit particularly well into GTD as a systematic approach. There’s a substantial social component to a lot of habits: exercise buddies, classes, book clubs. There’s literature on habits too, but I haven’t found much of it very helpful.

Maybe what you are seeing is actually one of the limitations of GTD. It’s not a total-life thing. Pythagoras told his followers not to eat beans. I have read some “productivity experts” telling people to drink more water, but I think David Allen is ok with us handling that on our own.
 
Thank you very much for your answer. At the beginning I would like to clarify that I absolutely did not mean the question: how to do something (how to learn a foreign language or programming). I know that and one can always educate himself in this topic, for example on the Internet.

You've put the core of my problem nicely - long-term projects that require systematic, sometimes continuous work. This issue is poorly described. Examples from Allen's book like eg. how to change tires (look for a mechanic's phone, call him and arrange a service) are obvious in their simplicity and consist of small steps.

However, I do not agree that the engaging phase is outside the scope of GTD. Well, in my opinion, the style of work will affect the organize phase. It cannot be separated. You can't do the orginize phase properly if you don't establish your work style taking into account your psyche, habits, strengths and weaknesses.

Therefore, I think that developing this topic or collecting real life examples of GTD users could be very inspiring. An example is the posts of Oogiem - often painfully practical.
 
I would LOVE to see a lot more case studies, examples, ideas, and concepts related to the doing part of ones job. Yes there are a ton of different scenarios. And we cannot relate to all of them. For example, I could not relate to an author that controls his/her own time extensively. But I could relate to a CEO full of meetings. And a book that had interviews, chapters for each role, and real world examples would be a dream come true for me. I always pick up things hearing those types of interviews on podcasts etc.

As to the long term things I struggle with that too. I am in the middle of a book now. I just leave it on my reading list (I dont break it down) and when it is done I just mark it complete and next one shows up. I do agree it is challenging in the system to break up the tasks but I also think some things you inherently know what to do and the overhead is not worth it.

But, I really do struggle with the engage phase at times when my list gets large. When it is short I get hyper focused and plow through things. When it is long I get paralyzed looking at it sometimes. I also struggle with maintaining priority in the system. Everything is given "equal weight" and that is hard at times and I feel like I miss somethin that is important or urgent but not due on a specific day.

And my last challenge is the lack of consistency in my schedule. It constantly changes and evolves and it is full of meetings. I do reserve time for myself and I try to hold it but that is not always as easy as it seems.

That being said I have tried many other methods and I always come back to GTD as no system really does give you the flexibility to develop your own way of handling these things like GTD.

The last thing I will say is that there are always lots of discussions about doing actions you enjoy and the proper outcomes. Sometimes that is not the real world. I love what I do for a living. but there are parts of the responsibility I dont enjoy. But that is the minority. I do think GTD does a good job of keeping those items in front of you and just knowing you have to get them done!
 
ivanjay205 said:
I would LOVE to see a lot more case studies, examples, ideas, and concepts related to the doing part of ones job. Yes there are a ton of different scenarios. And we cannot relate to all of them. For example, I could not relate to an author that controls his/her own time extensively. But I could relate to a CEO full of meetings. And a book that had interviews, chapters for each role, and real world examples would be a dream come true for me. I always pick up things hearing those types of interviews on podcasts etc.
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Fantastic idea! Thanks for bringing it up.
 
Tom_Hagen said:
Or maybe it's not a chapter topic, but rather a book?
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When I saw this sentence, I thought "Ready for Anything" seems like such a book. It is not focused on doing but the whole methodology. Time to read it again. I have so many of those arrow post-its in that book, I had forgotten how much I enjoyed and used it.

I'm also looking at the revised GTD book and the chapter on engage is quite extensive. And when I look at the methodology cards, no section is longer than 05 Engage.

That said, I would love to see said book created. These other suggestions might tide you over.
Clayton.

You have to see the whole forest recently and the trees now to truly engage.
 
Tom_Hagen said:
Therefore, it seems to me that the "doing" phase would require additional and in-depth discussion. Perhaps it would be worth giving diverse techniques and diverse suggestions. We know, after all, that GTD is not a rigid system. His strength is, among others: flexibility. Hence the title of this message - in my opinion such an additional chapter would be very interesting and inspiring for all of us.

Or maybe it's not a chapter topic, but rather a book? Eg "GTD in examples"?
Click to expand...
I wonder if "Mind like water" could be applied to doing (engaging). In relation to "Mind like water", David Allen in Getting Things Done the book mentions Karate, and the power in a karate punch coming from speed, not muscle, from the focused "pop" at the end of the "whip". He says a tense muscle is a slow one; hence the training in martial arts demand balance and relaxation as much as anything else. "Clearing the mind to being open and appropriately responsive is the key". So - deep breath - might one say that appropriate doing (engaging) will involve balance and a relaxed focus? Just as water responds to a disturbance in a proportionate way, one uses the necessary amount of energy to do, but no more. One's attention is gently brought to bear on the task, with quiet focus and without unnecessary mental tension.

I have just learnt something here:
The other parts of GTD are necessary in order to allow the mind to reach that state of relaxed focus, or as David put it, clearing the mind. If I am fretting over (for instance) commitments that I have not clarified, outcomes that I have not fully defined, or whether or not I am doing the task that is right for the moment, I won't be able to "do" as effectively as I could if my commitments and desired outcomes were clear, out of my head and parked in a trusted system - thus allowing my inner voice to tell me what I need to do right now. So, in that sense, the whole of GTD is actually about doing (engaging), in the moment.

I have a feeling that this is blindingly obvious, and will have been said by David, DavidCo staff and forum members many times, but for me a "penny has just dropped" - I get it!

By the way, I think a collection of users' case studies and experiences would be great!

I will have another look at the book "Ready For Anything", thank you @schmeggahead
 
Quicksilver10 said:
I have a feeling that this is blindingly obvious, and will have been said by David, DavidCo staff and forum members many times, but for me a "penny has just dropped" - I get it!
Click to expand...
What you have written here is for me another version of "GTD is not really about getting things done. It's about being appropriately engaged with what has your attention." There's a lot of depth and subtlety lurking in that statement and it helps me to have it explained in different ways. So thank you.
 
I agree about what you said. When I red the book at the first time about 15 years ago, I thought OK David made a fantastic job but the DO (engage) part is light. Trusting the 4 criterias, Horizons, your gut (little voice) is a way. When I made it in Omnifocus it was worst. I was often stuck due to too much stuff. My brain had difficulties to choose amoung of to many tasks.

About 2 or 3 years ago I understood that context list are just option. It doesnt mean I have to do something. It only means I can do it or not.

This is how I solve the problem. I got it from Ryder Caroll and I update it a bit.

I make 2 reviews.
One is at night where I update my system eg eliminate on my list what must be, assure that for each project actionable I have a Why goal and a result to obtain : 2 lines only. I also assure there is a next action. I close some project and go and see on my on hold project if I can make a project on the track...

The secont is only in the morning it is the first thing I do when I arrive at my office.
I make a Daily review look at my diary, flag every thing I want to do today and report my 2 core project on y diary
Then I have an OF perspective call Today on my tool bar which shows my by core projects and their next action.
It is my agenda GTD list for the day.

So when this is finished I do what I must do asap. I work by group
My calls (are flag what I must do today)
My email (idem)
My internet search (idem)
and so on....

I plan them on my diary

I also have time block dedicated when I have enough energy to project plans.

The most is make on my weekly review, I do like David explained. Just take de summary and do it step by step.

I dont know if it is perfect.
It tooks me years to make this.
Now it works for me, hope it will work for you too.
 
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Quicksilver10 said:
By the way, I think a collection of users' case studies and experiences would be great!
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There are a great many interviews (seem like case studies to me) in the podcast feed for connect members going back quite a ways.

I think there is actually an interview with the founder of the Huffington Post that was fascinating and helpful.

Clayton.

Slight application of pressure can change the direction of a very powerful movement. A light touch on the helm.
 
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