Omnifocus

[mmurray]

OmniFocus iPhone 1.1 on app store

There is an update of OmniFocus for the iPhone to 1.1. It allows a direct sync to a mac instead of going via mobileme. It also launches a lot more quickly. Release notes at

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=10395

Michael

 

[mcogilvie]

There is an update of OmniFocus for the iPhone to 1.1. It allows a direct sync to a mac instead of going via mobileme. It also launches a lot more quickly. Release notes at

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=10395

Michael

I make it launching for me in about 7 seconds, whereas the previous version took 11. Omnigroup has made it possible to use the inbox while loading, which is a time-saver.

 

[Mark Jantzen]

My Omni Focus setup

I did a couple things in Omni Focus that really opened up my GTD system.

I struggled with the "Miscellaneous" folder for single action items. I didn't like that structure. After some trial and error a few tricks really opened up the system for me.

I created Someday/Maybe and Might Buy as contexts. Then I created my top level folders in line with the Horizons of Focus. From there I could use OF projects for not only 10,000 Foot GTD Projects but also for 20,000 Foot Areas of Focus and Responsibility and so on.

As I process and organize I force myself to not let any action items go into Miscellaneous. As a result I've got a complete set of 20,000 Foot lists and actually started building 30,000 Foot and higher.

For example, under folder 20,000 Foot folder:
(Bills & FinancesCredit Cards sub-folders)

- Discover Card (OF project)
- Redeem Discover Card Cash Back (Someday/Maybe context)

So in Contexts view I've got a complete Someday/Maybe list and if I switch over to Projects view I can do my Weekly Review with project items serving as links to action items, checklist items and ways to tie Someday/Maybe into smaller chunks to review.

Hope this makes sense,
Mark

 

[Avrum Borenton]

or I may try an Evernote set up with one note for each context list [but that's not a true .txt file ]

Less than 45 secs ago, I posted to this forum about how I use Evernote and GTD:
http://forum.evernote.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8043

Omni focus is well thought out program and if you have a heavy workload with detailed projects it's a great choice . They have a great example of some guy on their blog working on some mega project with hundreds of small sub-projects .

From Omnifocus to Daylite... it was all overkill for me. It's a minor miracle how Evernote has become my 1 Stop Shop for organizing my life.

 

[Jim]

I think one has to be careful of the following fallacy: if my tool doesn't work for you, it's your fault, but if your tool doesn't work for me, it the tool's fault.

If a tool doesn't work for a particular user, isn't it partially the fault of the tool? Maybe it needs to be more intuitive or functional or inviting? If a tool doesn't meet my needs/habits/desires, then it probably isn't a good match. Certainly, users need to be a bit flexible when adapting a tool to their use, but I draw a line when I would have to make foundational changes to my workflows.

I know Omnifocus on the iPhone can do that. Do the photos and audio show up on the desktop?

Yes, they do, as attachments - which is really cool.

How often does that happen?

Once in the last three months. The cards have other uses, so I still carry them around, as they take up little room and are inexpensive.

I'd use Evernote more, but the iPhone app doesn't work without a good connection to the net.

The new version does work offline.

That said, this is a odd comment given that Toodledo doesn't work on computers without a good connection to the net. So you were concerned about connectivity with Evernote, but not with Toodledo on the desktop?

I agree completely that the Omni folks have done a good job of producing a reliable tool. I suppose one of the prices for that reliability is the rather long sync times, on the desktop but particularly on the iPhone. Every so often the desktop tells you it needs to restart the application, thank you very much. The start-up time on the iPhone is long too.

The older version of OmniFocus started up within six seconds on my iPhone. The new version opens up in three seconds (and I can enter a new inbox item within one second of the app opening). We must have different definitions of long. The desktop application opens as fast as any other application on my Mac. Comparatively, opening Safari and loading Toodledo takes longer (than loading OmniFocus) on both my Mac and my iPhone.

I don't really see your use of Mobile Me (which I use too) to sync OmniFocus as being very different from my use of Toodledo. After all, it was Apple that had the problems in the .Mac to Mobile Me transition. I have a local copy of my lists on my iPhone, back-ups via export, and any interruption of service (and I have very few problems) would be minor. If I lost everything, my lists would regrow themselves, anyway.

Well, the big difference is that you need to make a back-up via export. OmniFocus does back-ups and syncs automatically. If your net connection is out, how do you use that export on the desktop? Do you import it into a program? If so, then you would have to keep the desktop and web applications synced through manual imports and exports - which adds extra technical maintenance to the system. This would be alleviated through automation if Toodledo had a native desktop application. This is another reason why I prefer to use native applications as opposed to web applications.

By the way, did you ever ask Toodledo about TOS and uptime guarantees? A brief look brought the following, which doesn't exactly reassure me:

• Use of our web site is at all times "at your own risk."
  
• The web site makes no warranties about the accuracy or reliability of the material, services, text, graphics, and/or links.
  
• The web site does not warrant that the web site will operate error-free or that this web site or its server are free of computer viruses or other harmful items. If your use of our web site or the material on this site results in the need for servicing or replacing equipment or data, the web site is not responsible for those costs.

 

[mcogilvie]

The new version (of Evernote) does work offline.

That said, this is a odd comment given that Toodledo doesn't work on computers without a good connection to the net. So you were concerned about connectivity with Evernote, but not with Toodledo on the desktop?

The difference is that the iPhone apps Appigo Todo, Toodledo, and Remember the Milk all have local copies of the data. Evernote does not, so you need a net connection to use it. Evernote does permit local storage of "starred" items, but it is clunky.

The older version of OmniFocus started up within six seconds on my iPhone. The new version opens up in three seconds (and I can enter a new inbox item within one second of the app opening). We must have different definitions of long. The desktop application opens as fast as any other application on my Mac. Comparatively, opening Safari and loading Toodledo takes longer (than loading OmniFocus) on both my Mac and my iPhone.

Or maybe I have a more complicated outline. Omnifocus used to open in about 11 seconds for me, and now opens in about 4 seconds, and syncs in anywhere from about 6-8 seconds to 35 seconds, depending on the changes. That is a substantial improvement, and I think it is now usable. But sync times are still way longer than Appigo Todo, Toodledo, or RTM.

Well, the big difference is that you need to make a back-up via export. OmniFocus does back-ups and syncs automatically. If your net connection is out, how do you use that export on the desktop? Do you import it into a program? If so, then you would have to keep the desktop and web applications synced through manual imports and exports - which adds extra technical maintenance to the system. This would be alleviated through automation if Toodledo had a native desktop application. This is another reason why I prefer to use native applications as opposed to web applications.

By the way, did you ever ask Toodledo about TOS and uptime guarantees? A brief look brought the following, which doesn't exactly reassure me.

Omnifocus is indeed zealous about back-up, I suppose in part because it had some rocky times in beta. If you are concerned about webware terms of service, how do you react to software EULA's? It's the same issue, and the fact is, a good data center must have a significantly better uptime than most end users do. Furthermore, if I use Omnifocus at home and at work, I am relying on some kind of net service to sync them, unless I am going to go back to hand-carrying a copy of my data around. The automatic backups are not all that useful if the disk crashes (the most likely problem) or the app dies (who wants to parse XML to find out the next action). I'm not denying that a local app might make you feel safer, but I don't think it is a significant advantage. Suppose there is a nuclear detonation nearby, and an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) fries most electronics. No problem for me- I whip out paper, and start making a next action list:
1) put head between knees.
2) kiss my anatomy goodbye.

 

[Jim]

Evernote does permit local storage of "starred" items, but it is clunky.

Touching a star once is clunky? Seems like we have differing opinions on what is clunky.

Local storage of active, synced data in Toodledo on a Mac or Windows desktop would be a better example of clunky. :???:

But sync times are still way longer than Appigo Todo, Toodledo, or RTM.

In my experience, OmniFocus loads live and cached data faster on my 3G iPhone than Appigo Todo and Toodledo (I haven't paid for RTM, so I can't compare it). Maybe you have faulty hardware? Maybe your phone has run out of available space?

If you are concerned about webware terms of service, how do you react to software EULA's? It's the same issue, and the fact is, a good data center must have a significantly better uptime than most end users do.

To be frank, I am comfortable with OmniGroup's software EULA's. It isn't the same issue, as one is a service, and the other is a locally operated tool. That said, I am not sure the EULA topic is being given due consideration, since you have yet to respond to the items I quoted from Toodledo's legalese in an earlier post.

In my experience, my Drobo has had more reliability than than a Fortune 500 company's services that I deal with (which is supported by a staff of seventy-five). Do you know what Toodledo runs on? Or how many people develop or support it? Or is ignorance bliss?

Your premise that automatic backups are not all that useful if the disk crashes or the app dies... is much stronger argument against web-based services (showing web-based services have greater weaknesses) when you have no control over a web-based service. For my data to completely vanish, my hard drives (including a Drobo RAID), MacBook Pro, iPhone and .Mac service would all have to simultaneously fail. Pretty improbable, even with a nuclear detonation nearby (since if it is nearby, .Mac wouldn't be hit).

Since Toodledo doesn't guarantee their service with warranties about the accuracy or reliability of its software or hardware (or the error-free operation thereof), you are up the proverbial creek if they fail in any of several areas. If you are willing to accept those risks, I wish you luck.

Suppose there is a nuclear detonation nearby, and an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) fries most electronics. No problem for me- I whip out paper, and start making a next action list:

If you need to make a next action list for that occasion, there are bigger issues afoot here.

 

[BigEvil]

after using many of the different apps out there and using Omnifocus from Beta until now(even KGTD with OOP) I'd have to say it's by far the best solution. Don't worry about launch times etc, leave it open. On mac's use spaces and assign Omnifocus its own space. The system resources are minimal and really worth having it open at all times to be able to enter and reference quickly.

 

[Casper TFG]

whoops please delete...

 

[Casper TFG]

Hi folks,

Omnifocus fan here..

I am trying to rally support for an updated iPhone app version to be able to import email info in the same way as the desktop version (details here http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=11986 )

The new 'hook's that iPhone 3.0 software (out this summer) has, may make this finally possible.

If you would like that too - please send a request into the support ninjas at Omnifocus.. And we stand more of a chance of getting it!

(My reason for wanting it is 80% of my tasks are derived from email text and I am 'away from the office' a lot.. So I feel I need the same data entry functionality on the iPhone as on the desktop!)

OK - lobby over.. back to trying to learn from you good folks...

I am in my early stages with Omnifocus, but I have a power user chum (v handy for advice) and he echo's whats been said above re perspectives and taking a while to get the whole set up tweaked just the way you want / need it.. (TIP: this involves dragging your custom designed 'perspective' icons into the tool bar for easy 'one click' access)

I am 100% dedicated to making it work.. I have blown so much of my time on futzing around with apps that don't like to play ball / or sync together its not funny any more.. Omnifocus seems like 'home'. I plan to stay a while so I don't mind doing the building work on it. Besides, using it on Mac & iPhone satisfies the one trusted system ethos.. And I am an "office in the back pocket" type of guy..

 

[Jim]

I'm not sure if anyone still cares about this thread, but I saw an article today about Toodledo, and since it was passionately discussed in this thread, I felt this momentary catasrophy should be noted.

Toodledo Is In Troubledo

More details are here, in which the admin apoligizes and offers users a small token of appreciation for having to put up with the sixteen hours of downtime.

Events like this further reinforce why I believe its best to not leave your data solely in the hands of the "cloud" — which is what cloud applications are designed to do.

 

[mcogilvie]

I'm not sure if anyone still cares about this thread, but I saw an article today about Toodledo, and since it was passionately discussed in this thread, I felt this momentary catasrophy should be noted.
....
Events like this further reinforce why I believe its best to not leave your data solely in the hands of the "cloud" — which is what cloud applications are designed to do.

This is the kind of problem any application that syncs via the web can have. This includes Omnifocus. Apps like Things that do a local network sync between phone and computer are safer that way. However, Things can go bad if you are moving the database between computers. As it happens, the Toodledo outage was no problem for me, because I have a local copy of my data with me at all times on my iPhone.

 

[Oogiem]

This is the kind of problem any application that syncs via the web can have. This includes Omnifocus. Apps like Things that do a local network sync between phone and computer are safer that way.

Omnifocus synchs via a cable and local network. At least that's how I synch it to my smartphone. I use a Palm Treo and synch OF to it.

 

[mcogilvie]

Omnifocus synchs via a cable and local network. At least that's how I synch it to my smartphone. I use a Palm Treo and synch OF to it.

You must be syncing Omnifocus with iCal on your local machine, and then syncing ical with your smartphone. The OF mac to OF iPhone direct sync typically uses a webdav server, which is most often Mobile Me. OF also supports some other sync methods over a local network, which are useful for people who sync at one location. If you want to sync 2 machines in different places, or sync a portable device on the go, sync via a server somewhere on the web is the way to go, and not just for OF. Sorry if I oversimplified things in trying to explain why I think local data store+cloud sync is the best way to go. The disagreement that Lecter and I have is not really over this point, which broadly speaking we agree on. Our disagreement rather reflects a natural human tendency to believe that one's own spouse, house, car, and GTD implementation reflects a superior choice. I thinks it's also why goats butt heads, but I would defer to an expert.

 

[Oogiem]

You must be syncing Omnifocus with iCal on your local machine, and then syncing ical with your smartphone. ...

I thinks it's also why goats butt heads, but I would defer to an expert.

Yes I am.

Actually goats and sheep butt heads as part of determining rank in the flock or herd. It's a way to show dominance and prove yourself the top animal and thus worthy of the best food, place to lie down, etc.

 

[mcogilvie]

Actually goats and sheep butt heads as part of determining rank in the flock or herd. It's a way to show dominance and prove yourself the top animal and thus worthy of the best food, place to lie down, etc.

Explains a lot about people too, alas.

 

[Jim]

My main points have been based on keeping your data backed-up in as many secure places as possible, with as much automation of the back-ups as possible. A side (but pertinent) point, was that a native program (like OmniFocus or Things or Hit List) are much better than a web application (like Toodledoo). There are customizable keyboard speedkeys and AppleScripts that native applications have that make all web applications pale in comparison.

Regarding the back-up situation, I think the native application situation with OmniFocus is vastly superior to Toodledo's. With my OmniFocus set-up, my data is automatically backed-up to five different locations (my RAID hard drives [plus a Drobo RAID with Time Machine], MacBook Pro, iPhone and .Mac service) that I can control and protect. .Mac has additional back-ups and procedures to keep data safe (in my three years of use, my data has never been lost on .Mac).

Conversely, with Toodledoo, data is stored primarily on their servers (with an option to sync with their iPhone app). Toodledoo does offer export functionality, but it is manual. This is tedious compared to OmniFocus' automation.

For example, each time I want to locally backup Toodledoo data, I need to:

1. Open a web browser
2. Visit Toodledoo
3. Log in to Toodledoo
4. Click on Import/Export/Sync
5. Click on More Details for the export format that I want
6. Click on Download XYZ file
7. Choose location to save file
8. Click on save

That is a lot of steps. Compare it to OmniFocus:

1. Open OmniFocus and let it sync and back-up automatically
2. There are no more steps!

With Toodledoo's eight steps, I suspect that most users do not do daily (or even regular) local backups. The extra steps will discourage them. If the Toodledoo servers fail (or are unavailable for another sixteen hours or longer), you are forced to use a completely different program. Do Toodledoo users have a program set up, ready for such circumstances? Or will they end up manually editing a CVS file, losing functionality? If you don't have a manual local back-up, you are out of luck. If you don't have a recent back-up, you are out of luck with the subsequent data. Sure, the Toodledoo iPhone app has synced data. But it doesn't have the ability to export that data without access to the Toodledoo sever, so your data is isolated to it.

With no additional effort or steps, my data is iteratively backed-up to six local hard disks (two RAID in my Mac, four in the Drobo), my iPhone (and its iTunes backup), my MacBook, and .Mac. The likelihood of my up to date data being unavailable for any length of time is virtually nonexistent.

If Toodledoo ever goes out of business, its desktop functionality is dead immediately. If OmniGroup ever goes away, OmniFocus is still fully usable. One situation leaves the user high and dry, the other is infinitely better.

Regarding superior choices - if one isn't thrilled with their choices, I could see why they wouldn't discuss and defend them in a discussion forum. I share my solutions because I am proud of them, and because they may help others, or at least make them think. When I see contrary statements, I find it invigorating to enter into a congenial debate, as both sides may get something out of the discussion. In this case, if mcogilvie isn't getting anything out of our sporadic conversation, then I am misinterpreting our conversation. This isn't about rank or dominance, its about communication of ideas and solutions.

Regarding human nature, I prefer to think of humans as humans, rather than reducing them to barnyard animals.

 

[mcogilvie]

Regarding human nature, I prefer to think of humans as humans, rather than reducing them to barnyard animals.

My wife is a biologist, and once was a TA for Ed Wilson, who wrote the text "Sociobiology." My perspective on human behavior may be different.

I admire the seriousness with which you back up your data. I use .mac too, with local copies of my iDisk in multiple locations and use Time Machine as well. A Drobo would be overkill for me, I think, and I have had both good and bad experiences with RAID on departmental servers.

However, I think that risk of data loss is not really the point. My project and next action lists are not the most valuable data I have. If I lost my lists, they would regenerate fairly quickly. The story has been told several times of an incident where David Allen lost all the data in his palm. He picked up a demo paper planner he had with him, and got to work. I find Omnifocus a bit cumbersome and inflexible, and like the lighter, faster feel of Toodledo. If there is eventually an option to use Google Gears or something similar with Toodledo, I will use it. In the meantime, I'm not worried about my lists disappearing.

p.s. You can back up your Toodledo data automatically by setting up ical to pull it in without all the steps you list.

 

[Jim]

However, I think that risk of data loss is not really the point.

I've been thinking about this, and I think the point has settled (IMHO) into the following: This is all based on the user fully trusting their system (and each individual has different definitions of trust).

For some, no back-up (or very infrequent back-ups) are adequate. I think that this may be the case for people who have never lost any data.

Having lost a fair quantity of data in my distant past (and having to painstakingly rebuild it over an extended time), I built my current back-up system based on stability, redundancy, efficiency and automatic maintenance as core concerns. It has proven robust, which has provided a solid foundation of trust for me (not just for my GTD data, but also for my photos, music, videos, etc.).

Conversely, I have a friend that uses pen and paper for his data. He has no back-up at all.

If I was in his situation, I would be constantly monitoring the location of the notebook.

Quite frankly, I prefer the and efficiency and redundancy of my system.

That said, we are both happy. We trust our individual systems enough to not lose any sleep at night over them.

p.s. You can back up your Toodledo data automatically by setting up ical to pull it in without all the steps you list.

Aside from iCal not supporting all of the fields that I would personally want to keep synchronized, the following description from Toodledoo worries me (aka, causes immediate lack of trust in Toodledoo's system):

In order to do this, we need to publish your tasks without password protection. This means that it might be possible for someone besides you to read your tasks. Keep the following URL a secret if you don't want that to happen.

 

[mcogilvie]

Aside from iCal not supporting all of the fields that I would personally want to keep synchronized, the following description from Toodledoo worries me (aka, causes immediate lack of trust in Toodledoo's system):

The url's are long random strings, and the chances of someone happening upon a valid url are very, very small. I'm not saying its ideal, but it's acceptable. One should never put information like credit card numbers in one's lists, whether paper or electronic.