Open ended projects

[TesTeq]

Areas of Focus/Responsibility.

I’m wondering what the guys who are saying projects have a beginning and an ending actually do for the things in life that are "on going"?

For example, health and fitness, Parenting, self development, maintaining stuff, etc . Since you guys don’t tag them as projects what do you tag them as? How do you handle these on going things?

It's easy. All these areas of focus/responsiblity are the GTD Areas of Focus/Responsibility.

During Weekly Reviews I am defining Projects for these Areas of Focus/Responsibility as needed. All my Projects have successful outcomes and deadlines defined so I can feel a great feeling of accomplishment when they are done. You cannot feel it when your Project never ends.

 

[NewbGTD]

Either I'm missing something or you don’t have any on going commitments.

But i'm still learning here

 

[sdann]

This is an interesting debate.

I’m wondering what the guys who are saying projects have a beginning and an ending actually do for the things in life that are "on going"?

For example, health and fitness, Parenting, self development, maintaining stuff, etc . Since you guys don’t tag them as projects what do you tag them as? How do you handle these on going things?

When you say ongoing, can you give an example?

I have a lot of ongoing things in my life. If it is a general way of life I want to lead, such as being a healthy or generous person I will create goals and areas of focus. For specific things that I am working on and that I am tracking, I will have specific projects. One such project is trying to begin work an hour earlier every day (it's harder than I thought). I am also constantly working on one self-development project after another to which I assign a purpose and an outcome.

For tasks that are recurring, I have checklists. I will also use the tickler for regular maintenance items. I don't keep these open as projects, but rather will open projects as they recur again (examples are semi-annual dental cleanings, changing the vent filters or reconciling the checkbook).

 

[Oogiem]

When you say ongoing, can you give an example?

Here are examples from my world. the are projects because they are not just single action things yet they will never ever be done:

Vaccinate Lambs is the project. It happens every single year because we have new lambs every year. There are a number of actions that go into doing this project
Check vaccine supply for expiration date & amount
Order vaccine if needed
Check syringe & needle inventory
Order syringes & needles if needed
Vaccinate early lambs first shot
Vaccinate late lambs first shot
Vaccinate early lambs second shot
Vaccinate late lambs second shot
Fill out sheep records w/ vaccine data
Check lambs for shot abccesses & treat as necessary
File required federal reports on lamb shots

Set up irrigation system is the project. Happens every spring. Some of these individual actions may take several days. Cleaning ditches is something that can take a few hours or a week depending on how much damage the elk and cattle have done over winter.
Clean out shared ditch from main box to splitter box
Clean out our ditch after splitter box
Check gated pipes for missing or broken gates and gaskets
Go buy gates and gaskets as needed
Mark main orchard
Mark west orchard field
Mark pear orchard field
Install upper orchard gated pipes
Install pear orchard gated pipes
Set up drinking water ditch gates
Clean out main ditch box and set divider with ditch rider
Clean out splitter box & set divider with ditch rider

All housecleaning tasks are ongoing and never done. I do use a checklist for those because they are all in one of 2 contexts, inside by myself or inside with help.

Exercise is ongoing and never done.

There are many more.

I tend to put any ongoing tasks or repeating projects that have actions in different contexts tracked as a full project.

 

[TesTeq]

It's not ongoing - it's recurring (or repeating).

Here are examples from my world. the are projects because they are not just single action things yet they will never ever be done:

Vaccinate Lambs is the project. It happens every single year because we have new lambs every year.

It's not ongoing - it's recurring (or repeating). Each year you've got a new project to vaccinate lambs and it ends with a successful outcome "all new lambs vaccinated". Next year you will repeat this project but it is not ongoing.

It is a repeating project in the "Keep lambs healthy" Area of Focus/Responsibility.

 

[Brent]

Agreed with TesTeq.

In my own system, I'd set up a Tickler page for that. If the full checklist fits on a page, I'd use that as the Tickler page. If not, I'd create a folder in my filing system.

While actually doing the Project, I'd keep the support materials out and handy. it's one advantage of using a clipboard for my Next Actions and Projects; I can put those checklists on the clipboard and refer to them as I move around my house.

 

[NewbGTD]

I’ve come to realise that TesTeq is correct

If its something that has to be ‘maintained’ then it is a areas of focus, they are not projects (even though they may feel like they are).

Unless it has a start/complete process involed then its area of focus. And sometimes (maybe reoccurring) those ‘areas of focus’ emerge with ‘projects‘.

Makes sense to me anyway. Glad I figured this one out.

 

[malisa]

I'm reviewing my projects this morning and found that several aren't projects. I'm going through and writing what a successful outcome would look like for each project and am pulling the ones that it's become apparent that they don't have an end. I'm finding it very helpful.

However, I'm not sure if the things I'm pulling are quite 'Areas of focus' though. I'd say that they're responsibilities within my areas of focus.

Example: "Get rid of rogue trees" was a project. But once I get rid of the current ones, more will replace them. I guess right now, since they're a bit out of control, it is a project (if I actually get down to zero rogue trees). But once I'm starting without any, then it's a maintenance thing. I have a handful of similar non-projects right now. I'm calling them just that. Since there are a few of them, I'm comfortable with them hovering at the back of my projects. I've put a note with them that once they're completed, that they need to be integrated into some kind of maintenance schedule.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

 

[TesTeq]

"Garden maintenance" Area of Focus.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

I would define the "Garden maintenance" Area of Focus with recurring Projects checklist.

 

[malisa]

Thanks. I have my last action to do something like that. I like your wording. I would bet that it'll be more than a single action again in the future, that's what was not feeling right about having it on a maintenance checklist for the future. I think that these (several) projects that don't feel like projects are all of that ilk, they will be recurring projects, they won't be single actions in the future either.

 

[Oogiem]

Areas of Focus are broad categories not narrow ones

If its something that has to be ‘maintained’ then it is a areas of focus, they are not projects (even though they may feel like they are).

I strongly disagree. If that were true then nothing I ever do is a project and that is plainly wrong. Just because it's maint. or happens over and over doesn't mean it's an area of focus. Those are much broader. I would agree that maintain the sheep flock is an area of focus but there is no way all 30-40 projects that go into doing that are separate areas of focus!

I was sure that in the books David Allen says that most people have 8-10 areas of focus. That makes sense to me but not the 200 or so that would be implied by making everything that has to be maintained an area of focus.

 

[TesTeq]

Maybe sheep are not compatible with orthodox GTD?

I strongly disagree. If that were true then nothing I ever do is a project and that is plainly wrong. Just because it's maint. or happens over and over doesn't mean it's an area of focus.

Maybe sheep are not compatible with orthodox GTD?

Here http://www.davidco.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64904&postcount=9 Kelly Forrister wrote how to distinguish between Projects and Areas of Focus.

You maintain, oversee, manage, monitor Areas of Focus.

 

[Day Owl]

Our Black Sheep Shepherdess clearly knows how to Get Things Done without getting caught up in ideological definitions.

 

[Oogiem]

Maybe sheep are not compatible with orthodox GTD?

I also disagree with that. GTD provides a framework to handle most any type of job or project. David is right that when Farming was not as high tech you might just get away with no tools to manage it but modern farming requires that you keep track of laws, regulations, and productivity that demands a much more robust tracking system for all the the things you have to do. Maybe the difference is that I don't consider on-going projects, or even long term next actions to be against GTD.

I would still like to know how you handle what I consider the on-going projects. To me a project that is going to keep coming back is an ongoing one. House work is never done, it's an area of focus but vacuuming is a project that is also never done. Same for paying bills, laundry and almost all tasks to maintain a clean house which is a clear area of focus.

If those are not projects then what are?

Does everyone else who is doing GTD have maids or staff that handles the routine day to day stuff?

If we are truly following the rule of capturing everything that has your attention, processing it into next action then I would think that there is no way not to have several hundred on-going projects or even tasks to do.

It's like the issue I have with next actions. If I have a defined next action that is a physical thing to do that cannot be separated into smaller bits but it's going to take several months or years to finish that doesn't mean it's not a next action.

 

[Roger]

I try to avoid getting too finicky with terminology, but I think it might be useful to consider a distinction between on-going projects and recurring projects.

By recurring projects I mean projects that at some point are "done for now." Vacuuming, say. At some point, you are finished vacuuming for now. (Assuming your house isn't so huge that by the time you finish, you need to go back to the beginning and start again.) In a very real way there's no Next Action right this moment for it. If you had absolutely nothing else to do in your life, it still wouldn't make any sense to do some more vacuuming.

But it's recurring. At some future point, it'll be time to vacuum again. I'm not sure if there's any clear benefit either way in considering it the same project again, or a new project every time.

A long-running on-going project is a bit different, though. Write My Autobiography might take me years and years. But, until I reach the end, there isn't really any point where it's technically impossible for me to write any more that moment (other than issues of energy and motivation and such.) If I had nothing else to do in my life, I could theoretically sit down and keep writing for a thousand hours or whatnot.

So... alright, in retrospect, maybe that distinction isn't quite as useful as I thought. Or maybe it is; I need to think on it a bit more.

Cheers,
Roger

 

[sdann]

I have a lot of recurring projects that I need for my business. Most of this is long-term maintenance and also includes regulatory issues and household maintenance. The difference may be that I don't keep the projects open.

As an example I have an area of focus I call admin-business. Into this falls any administrative activities for work that includes licenses, leases, databases etc. They include the very simple but also the necessary more serious issues. I also have ongoing maintenance for other areas of focus, such as clients and strategy etc. I do not have a separate area of focus for each series of recurring maintenance projects of which I have many - and I'm adding more, as I see how great it is that these things are taken care of "automatically".

For me it is easier to compartmentalize my recurring activities. I am prompted by the tickler, calendar or other trigger. I open the project, do the actions and close it. The recurring projects can serve as checklists, although they can often vary with a different action or two. I can finish it in one sitting or it can take longer, such as days, weeks or maybe even months. I see it on my active project list and know exactly what I am currently working on. The point for me is that I can close the project and say to myself, that maintenance project is done. Then I can forget about it until I am prompted again.

 

[TesTeq]

I'm against on-going projects. I prefer recurring projects instead.

Maybe the difference is that I don't consider on-going projects, or even long term next actions to be against GTD.

I would still like to know how you handle what I consider the on-going projects. To me a project that is going to keep coming back is an ongoing one. House work is never done, it's an area of focus but vacuuming is a project that is also never done. Same for paying bills, laundry and almost all tasks to maintain a clean house which is a clear area of focus.

I'm against on-going projects. I prefer recurring projects instead. I like the great feeling of achieving each successful outcome. And I think this feeling is essential for GTD to work. It motivates me. Nothing can motivate me if the Project is not going to end.

I agree with the approaches presented by Roger and sdann.

 

[cameron]

For me, cleaning the house is a checklist which may generate additional actions or projects for unusual events under the area of focus 'habitation'.
It's a checklist because it's a repeatable no-thought process which form the bedrock over which my other more flexible items are done.

Similarly my area of focus review would identify if my checklist was providing the desired results, otherwise I would generate actions to improve the checklist

 

[Oogiem]

I prefer recurring projects instead. I like the great feeling of achieving each successful outcome. And I think this feeling is essential for GTD to work.

I know that most projects will never end, I'm much more motivated by how well I do with my time here than whether I finished a project. Perhaps the difference is the farming mind set? I'm working on projects that were started originally by my mother over 30 years ago. They are still not done. They may not be finished in my lifetime either. But I've made significant progress on them and have clear documentation about them so that's fine. We are also working so that there is a plan for how the next person to continue without undue pressure to stop farming from urbanization. Some of the individual next actions take months or years to do, some I can and have checked off but the overall "project plan" is probably bigger than my timespan on earth.

That's what I like best about farming compared to my prior work in computers. I can work on things that will make a difference in 10-20-50-100 years from now. Same for my fiber work, moths aside, if I do a good job on my weaving or knitting it could last 500 years. I know it can last 50 easily. I'm wearing sweaters that are over 50 years old now.

So for me a recurring project is an ongoing one. Also some that won't recur for generations are active and being worked on.

 

[Oogiem]

I try to avoid getting too finicky with terminology, but I think it might be useful to consider a distinction between on-going projects and recurring projects.

Interesting perspective.

I have long period recurring projects that might be considered ongoing. Things like replanting a field. Those are long term things that will happen again and depending on the crop planted the timeframe might be 1 month, 1 yr, 5 yrs, 30 yrs or even 150 yrs. Doing one iteration of the project may take several year. We just did an iteration of re-plant 2 fields over the last 3 years. We've probably got 25-30 years before we have to do that again on those fields but it will have to be done and one of my tasks is to document what we did, problems we encountered so that whoever does it next time can benefit from my experience. If it's me I probably won't remember what I did before but if, as is likely, its someone else they shouldn't have to re-invent the wheel so to speak.

That's why to me projects are almost always on-going or recurring. I very rarely have one off projects except hobby ones.

I personally don't do well with checklists at all if they are things that have to be done. If it's not in my Omnifocus Next actions list even if I have an action to check checklist X I often won't do it until I absolutely have to. So I track all my projects in OF one way or another. I do use checklists for things like packing lists either for travel or my lamb bag but that's about it.