You’re just trying to confuse me because it’s so easy.Geez, you don't like linking, you don't like not linking, there's just no pleasing you, is there?
It seems like all the cool kids don't do contexts anymore. I still find them useful, but I was never cool.
The GTD police were defunded. Also, DA himself said in this very forum, "Anything that works for you, and not against you, is canonical GTD."
Now, me, I'm working actively against you. So for you, I am not canonical GTD.
Projects List and Next Actions examples?
- Thread starter Turn2Jesus2
- Start date
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
Actually, there were nuggets of seriousness in there. I found it interesting that you consider using software that links actions to projects to have pitfalls, yet you find doing a weekly review without those links to be challenging. Unless I misinterpreted you.
Also, I am increasingly reading posts from people who say that person/place/tool contexts don't work for them. They seem to work for me. But I've never been good at following trends.
And the DA quote is legit. I think there is a lot to unpack in that short statement.
Finally, I can fully stand by the statement that I am not canonical GTD. That is as true as anything can be.
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
I have to respect a GTDer who also plays D&D. I have to have even more respect for them if the DM. If they use GTD to manage their DM prep activities, they get 1,000 bonus points and a free side of fries at Wendy's.
Disclaimer: Offer of free french fries will not be honored because Bill is full of s***.
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
I think that's both fair and unfair. On the one hand, I get concerned by a lot of posts here that sound like analysis paralysis or the avoidance of work through productivity porn. On the other hand, this is a forum about how to practice GTD rather than how to be an accountant or a chef, so it's natural that the focus will be on GTD and not on someone's specific activities.
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
I've been thinking about this thread and at this moment a line from a song comes to mind: "So much mind on the matter, the spirit gets forgotten about." Ultimately, GTD is about getting things off your mind and into a trusted system. And the system needs to be easy enough to use that you won't resist using it.
Ultimately, the five phases of work identified in the GTD methodology are going to result in the creation, usage and maintenance of lists. That's it.
DA holds that if you have to choose between organizing actions by project or by the context in which you'll do them, you should do the latter. Because that's how we actually work -- according to the people, places and tools available to us.
If someone is concerned about losing sight of what's project actions are complete and what still needs to be done, project plans can be stored in project support so you can keep track. This can be a list of actions you transfer into your next actions lists, or it can be (as I often do) a more general list of project milestones. Where should you put that? Not to be a smart guy, but the only legit answer is, "Wherever you want." Notebook paper you file in paper folders. A digital tool. Cuneiform tablets. Whatever floats your boat.
I get the anxiety about "doing it right" or using the right tools. I was stuck there for years. Trust me, it's a lot easier if you just start doing GTD and work it out as you go. And understand that the more complexity you add to your system, the more effort it becomes to maintain it. If that effort level exceeds what you're naturally willing to do, you won't do it.
Complexity is often mistaken for thoroughness and control. To paraphrase Princess Leia in Star Wars: the more you tighten your fist, the more things that have your attention will slip through your fingers.
Ultimately, the five phases of work identified in the GTD methodology are going to result in the creation, usage and maintenance of lists. That's it.
DA holds that if you have to choose between organizing actions by project or by the context in which you'll do them, you should do the latter. Because that's how we actually work -- according to the people, places and tools available to us.
If someone is concerned about losing sight of what's project actions are complete and what still needs to be done, project plans can be stored in project support so you can keep track. This can be a list of actions you transfer into your next actions lists, or it can be (as I often do) a more general list of project milestones. Where should you put that? Not to be a smart guy, but the only legit answer is, "Wherever you want." Notebook paper you file in paper folders. A digital tool. Cuneiform tablets. Whatever floats your boat.
I get the anxiety about "doing it right" or using the right tools. I was stuck there for years. Trust me, it's a lot easier if you just start doing GTD and work it out as you go. And understand that the more complexity you add to your system, the more effort it becomes to maintain it. If that effort level exceeds what you're naturally willing to do, you won't do it.
Complexity is often mistaken for thoroughness and control. To paraphrase Princess Leia in Star Wars: the more you tighten your fist, the more things that have your attention will slip through your fingers.
In hindsight, you’re completely right. I don‘t think I’m the absent-minded professor type, but I can have mind like open door sometimes and absolute focus on a project other times.
Contexts are ok for me, but I have a lot of control over them. So context lists just shift “what should I work on?” to “what context should I be in?” My decision on what do at any given moment involves many factors. If I am honest, importance and timeliness are big for me. But I also uphold the GTD principle that all next actions need doing.
Yeah, he’s ok, that one.
Perhaps you resemble a free-thinking clergyperson- a loose canon.
TesTeq
0
@bcmyers2112 You've inspired me to look for another appropriate song for this thread and I think I've found it!
I think GTD fixes holes and fills cracks in our lives to free our minds to creatively wander…
Which reminded me of another lyric, from "Across the Universe":
And now I have competing earworms, left and right, gnawing their way to a medley in the center of my brain.
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
@Gardener once pointed out that contexts are useful for breaking up lists, if nothing else. I still like having "traditional" contexts because, you know, I can run errands or work on my home computer, but not both. I have a list of calls to make because if I make one call, it's just as easy to make 5 or 10. I also have a list called "calls - business hours". I've got a home list that I think I may subdivide between "home - indoors" and "home - outdoors" because we have a yard that's either muddy as hell or dry as dust; either way I don't want to track dirt in the house by trudging indoors and outdoors repeatedly. Also, it's highly unlikely I'll want to pull weeds outside, come inside to clean my rapidograph pens, and then go back outside to fix a piece of flashing that came loose in a windstorm.
TL;DR: Bill likes person/place/tool contexts.
I don't resemble a loose cannon so much as I am a loose can -- oh. "Canon" instead of "cannon." I see what you did there.
I wish I didn't, but I see it.
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
Would you like some more? I have most Rush lyrics memorized. Or maybe Todd Rundgren is more your speed? Billy Joel? Taylor Swift? Indigo Girls? Rage Against the Machine?
I'm sure they've all had something to say about GTD at one time or another.
Oogiem
0
My contribution but I'm playing with some changes to the lyrics. The start works just fine though....
"Welcome back my Friends to the show that never ends,
We're so glad you could attend,
Come inside, come inside"
gtdstudente
Registered
@Turn2Jesus2,
Are your GTD concern as follows?
Are you asking if there is a potential way to use GTD in regards to Projects and Next Actions to explicitly know how a particular Next Action is connected to its particular Project from the Next Action List(s)?
If so, has a satisfactory solution been developed since originally posting?
If not, is there a reason why the GTD Weekly Review is insufficient for a particular Next Action to be 'only' implicitly connected to its particular Project which is seemingly to help focus exclusively on the Next Action's action as much as possible as an 'independent entity' for its building-block contribution (as defined on page 96 in Getting Things Done for Teens) in serving its Project since one is unable to do Projects and only do/delegate actions related to life's Projects', Areas'-of-Focus, and Horizons' unless the Next Action itself is a simple one-&-done in which case Projects', Areas'-of-Focus, and Horizons' would be seemingly 'irrelevant'?
That you very much
As you see GTD fit
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MarkyMarkS
Registered
David Allen used to say that "how do you link projects to actions, and actions to projects?" is the most common question he gets. He also said that no-one who is doing a proper weekly review ever has this question. I have 90+ professional and personal projects on the go at any one time, and I have consistently found over the years that scanning the projects list, then reading all of my next actions, then reviewing projects one by one and making sure I have the relevant next actions captured onto the relevant context list in each case, works very well. With that said, there are many ways to link projects and actions in most software applications, if you're digital. I use Reminders, and make this work well (happy to describe further if helpful). Tagging has worked well for me in the past as well, though tags need to be maintained at a manageable level, so tagging only down to the level of Areas of Focus worked better for me than trying to create a separate tag for each project. To return to David's comment on this, it's very unlikely to be as much of a problem in practice as it perhaps seems to be in theory.
gtdstudente
Registered
@MarkyMarkS,
Good job and thank you for your reiteration . . . for whatever it is worth and whether of any value . . . whenever explicitly 'linking' Projects to Next Actions is an [unnecessary] additional 'GTD practice' to maintain and whenever it breaks-down for whatever reason, it can become an excessively arduous task to endure in order to get one's GTD system back to its former glory when simply scratching a
This GTD concern has one wondering if doing the 'Link' thing is a reason some abandon the GTD methodology to some degree since it can add unnecessary complexity?
However, on this end, Next Actions are only implicitly 'dynamic-purpose-guided' to Areas-of-Focus to facilitate the Next Actions appropriate attractiveness that eliminates 'numbness/wondering' friction for optimal individualized get-done engagement without unnecessary stress 'motivation' while also by-passing Project linking maintenance
As practiced on this end, five Area-of-Focus are color-coding embed though-out Next Actions List(s) items for above reasons
As such, Divine/Enlightenment black-text 'under' gold highlight, Health is red, Danger/Toxic is orange, Props [Tools] are blue, Provisions are green
GTD practiced Next Actions via Context lists:
@Anywhere
Pray for the end of stupid wars and for those who are innocently/unnecessarily suffering
@Errands
Walk to Pick-up unexpiring bread and milk and continue habituating a healthy distance from all moving-vehicles
@Calls
appointment: Dr.'s office for family member
[in the same way talking to the receptionist, all are listed in the 2nd person: self, spouse, child, parent, ect. . . . even a loyal pet
]appointment: Tire Shop for every six-months all Life-Time 1. Tire Rotation [Straight Front-to-Rear and Rear Crossed-to-Front], 2. Wheel-Balancing [Tire psi:44], and 3. Four-Wheel Alignment
@Online
Cash balance available to pay-off credit card balance
As you see GTD fit
GTD to be detached from everything while taking care of everything as easily as possible
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Evernote -> Projects Notebook-> Each Project is a note. Use internal link to next actions list. Next Actions is a notebook. Each context is a note. Each next action is a link to the Project.
When reviewing a Project note, you immediately see a drop down of all active links, if there are any.
For me, if I see the that drop down menu, I know there is a next action on a list waiting to get done.
In my paper system, I simply keep a list of projects and number them. Then when a task is related to a project, I include the number (if I think about it; it's not a requirement and I don't use that reference point all that often). I never re-use numbers unless I'm completely re-writing my lists, but even then I try not to. I just re-wrote my lists a few weeks ago (I usually do this for clarity's sake when ~75% of my tasks/projects are completed and finding the incomplete ones gets difficult) and re-numbered, and I kind of regret it. I remembered the numbers for long-term projects pretty well and now I've got competing numbers in my head. I won't be doing that again.
Here you can see my project list on the left, each project numbered. And on the right, an excerpt from my Next Actions list (I don't use contexts out side of Next Actions, Need Others (Agenda), Waiting For, and Someday) showing how I include project numbers with next actions. Easy and simple! And also if I forget, no biggie. I don't need them. I know what tasks go with what project because I actively engage with my lists regularly.
Here you can see my project list on the left, each project numbered. And on the right, an excerpt from my Next Actions list (I don't use contexts out side of Next Actions, Need Others (Agenda), Waiting For, and Someday) showing how I include project numbers with next actions. Easy and simple! And also if I forget, no biggie. I don't need them. I know what tasks go with what project because I actively engage with my lists regularly.
Gosh, I cannot reiterate enough how true this is. I think a lot of people think that GTD means if you properly put your tasks on your lists and track all the things, your lists will tell you what to work on. I know I certainly did for the first years I tried the system. But it's simply not true. You have to engage—manually—with your lists every day and deeply on a weekly basis, in order for the system to work. And when you do that, you know your lists. You know your projects. You know what you're making progress on. If you try to be hands off and let the software tell you what to work on and what your priorities are, it will fail every time.
Now, this sounds like something a punk rock band would sing
nlemon3434
Registered
I believe you are correct that the project list is intended to be completely separated from your context lists. I track my next Action lists in Microsoft To Do and started out trying to track Current Projects and Someday/Maybe as lists in To Do, but I found it to be extremely clunky because I need to be able to view my Projects list WHILE also looking at my Next Action lists. I ended up just creating a simple Excel Table where I track the Date Added, Project Description, Notes/Links relevant to the project, and a completion date. I then filter out any task with a completed date, so they will drop off, but if I want to go back to see when I completed something I could. I copied this template into several tabs in my Workbook, and I have One for Current Project, Someday/Maybe, Tickler (in my mind that is for things that are farther in the future than I want to put on my current projects or context lists, and another list for Recurring Tasks that should be calendared, but I want a more concrete reminder of what I should be doing on a recurring basis since it is too easy to delete a calendar item or move it and lose information about what I was supposed to do and when. My list is by no means perfect, and I'm still figuring out ways to track action effectively, but I recommend starting with something as simple as possible to get started. The day may come when I'll look into jumping into one of the more powerful softwares, but my experience is that if you can't track something effectively in a simple system, it rarely works better to track it in a more complex system. You can get lost in all the settings and options and never accomplish what you intended to accomplish.
nlemon3434
Registered
What I am learning is that if I have so many projects that I can't quickly scan my Next Action lists to see if a project has a next action, and I don't remember setting up a next action, than I may have too many projects to be effective on any of them and I need reconsider my priorities and kill or move some projects to my someday/maybe list so that I can focus on my highest priorities. One thing implementing a Projects list did for me was to make me less willing to take on new projects once I realized how many commitments I already have. I find it easier to delegate or say no with integrity when I am honest with myself about what my top priorities and current commitments are
bcmyers2112
Who in hell do I think I am, anyway?
When I quoted the lyric about "too much mind on the matter," it wasn't a commentary on GTD. I was referring to the tendency to think GTD lists have to be super-sophisticated in order to corral all of your stuff.
Outside of project support and reference, with GTD all you need are lists. That's it. How is a GTD system supposed to look? Like a bunch of lists. Just lists. Where should those lists live? Wherever you want them to. Paper is an option. There are also many digital solutions that are suitable for GTD.
Do you need to have some way to link next actions to projects? According to DA and every David Allen Company employee or certified GTD trainer I've ever heard from, the answer is "no." The weekly review is the glue that holds everything together. Can you link them? Sure. There are software products that can do that. Again, the GTD experts say that feature is useful but not a must-have.
If I may venture an opinion, I suggest trying GTD without the linking. Just create simple, flat lists, whether on paper or a digital app. Do the weekly review, and also review your lists in-between as often as you need to in order to ensure they're complete and current. In my experience, you can add complexity if you need to, but subtracting it is very difficult without just starting over from the ground up.
Outside of project support and reference, with GTD all you need are lists. That's it. How is a GTD system supposed to look? Like a bunch of lists. Just lists. Where should those lists live? Wherever you want them to. Paper is an option. There are also many digital solutions that are suitable for GTD.
Do you need to have some way to link next actions to projects? According to DA and every David Allen Company employee or certified GTD trainer I've ever heard from, the answer is "no." The weekly review is the glue that holds everything together. Can you link them? Sure. There are software products that can do that. Again, the GTD experts say that feature is useful but not a must-have.
If I may venture an opinion, I suggest trying GTD without the linking. Just create simple, flat lists, whether on paper or a digital app. Do the weekly review, and also review your lists in-between as often as you need to in order to ensure they're complete and current. In my experience, you can add complexity if you need to, but subtracting it is very difficult without just starting over from the ground up.