Would you still need a gtd system if you could never forget anything

kelstarrising

Kelly | GTD expert
"SuperGTDMan"--What do you want from these forums? It seems like you have apathy for GTD and most of the communications you have with your fellow forum members here, so I'm having a hard time seeing what you get out of these forums?
 
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supergtdman

Guest
Obviously I'm interested in what you guys think, I just wish you were a little less dogmatic.
 

Gardener

Registered
supergtdman;109011 said:
Yeah, and if you add next actions like "boot up computer", "pick up a pen" - it all suddenly becomes super meaningful, right.
Have you even read what I wrote? You're making a straw man argument.
I'm thinking more about a way to streamline, optimize gtd for a modern digital work environment, not dump it. Obviously it's still useful to have your projects, goals, etc. defined. But you can trim the fat, remove extra steps, make it easier to maintain.

You may be assuming that GTD sets the level of granularity for a project. But it doesn't. I'd say that if the next action for your project is so obvious that it's not worth writing down, then you may have defined your project in more detail than you need.

For example, an experienced baker might have an action "Bake chocolate cake" inside a project "organize Joan's birthday party". For her to break that down into, "buy chocolate" and "look up recipe" and "wash springform pans" is a waste of time; the tasks are instinct for her, and for things like the chocolate, she probably has some system to make sure that she always has supplies, elsewhere in her GTD system.

But a novice baker might need a separate project for baking the cake, one that includes actions like "ask Anne for an easy cake recipe" and "find a source for Callebaut chocolate online" and "find online video on how to separate eggs" and "find out what a springform pan is."

For your "bought Macbook", _you_ don't need intervening tasks. But someone who doesn't know much about computers, doesn't even know what he's going to do with the thing, probably does need intervening tasks, like "Ask Joe to lunch to talk about computers" and "Find out what all those system requirements lists mean" and "Ask Joe why he said to always get the extended warranty on laptops."

And someone who knows plenty about computers but whose days are very crowded may need tasks just to keep the "buy computer" project on his radar so that he doesn't suddenly find himself with a project that requires a faster computer and a six-week backlog on the computer he wants.

On writing the book, if the book requires that you do a lot of research about, say, family-owned farms in rural Tennessee, and you conclude that you need to do that research _in_ rural Tennessee, that's not something that you're going to wake up one day and spontaneously do. You'll need to choose dates for the trip, get plane tickets, get lodging, and take the trip. You might need to remember to bring your camera and your mini tape recorder for taking pictures and doing interviews.

You might need to make appointments with the people that you want to interview. Those people might be hard to reach; you might need to call around every week for six months before you can get a group of interviews set up for the same week.

And if you do all that and come home with your research, then realize that you also need to go see the Hermitage outside Nashville, and you need to get on a plane again when you could have just organized your trip to use the Nashville airport, you'll be rather annoyed with yourself.

To me, that involves actions and processing and prioritizing and planning. It's up to you whether your Next Action is a simple "touch base with interviewees" or a more complex "Check interviewee list." followed by "Create call list." followed by "Call Joe." But they're all Actions.
 

Barb

Registered
Seems not, really

supergtdman;109029 said:
Obviously I'm interested in what you guys think, I just wish you were a little less dogmatic.

You know, I watched your posts over the weekend. Then I clicked on your name and read many of your previous posts. Seems to me you come here every so often with some statement about how David Allen should do this or David Allen's thinking is wrong in that way....so my own conclusion was that you come here to try and engage people in unwinable arguments, often about points of GTD that matter not one whit. And when you cannot keep that argument going, you insult the person (as you did TesTeq, Kelly, and will surely do it me).

Dear fellow Forum members: For your entertainment pleasure, click on his name at the listing of the threads and see some of his posts for yourselves. My personal decision will be not to engage you...and I hope others will do the same. In my opinion, you are the perfect example of an "internet troll."
 
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supergtdman

Guest
That dogmatic comment wasn't directed at Kelly. It's just whenever I start a discussion about some problems of gtd I usually get replies very similar to quotes from David Allen as if gtd is perfect end all be all. I think there are some things that can be improved/streamlined especially now that times and technology has changed quite a bit.
And some concepts I just disagree with, like for example, yeah, it's not possible to have an absolutely complete system and that mind like water should come first and not be the result of practicing gtd.
and yeah, I just looked at my threads and had a laugh, the titles are humorous but I make some good points too.
 

vbampton

Administrator
supergtdman;109033 said:
It's just whenever I start a discussion about some problems of gtd I usually get replies very similar to quotes from David Allen as if gtd is perfect end all be all.

Funnily enough, that's because you're on a forum run by the David Allen Company, full of people for whom GTD (as described by David) is working very well. If it was my forum, I'd have banned you as a troll by now.

If your understanding of GTD doesn't suit you well, show a teachable attitude and learn, or use something else. When you start throwing out the core principles, you're no longer doing GTD. At that point you're using your own system which shares some similar ideas.

It's like insisting a bicycle should have 3 wheels, because you're unable to ride one with 2 wheels. Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Buy a tricycle and ride it happily, but don't criticise the design of bicycles and people who choose to ride them. Some of us are very happy with our bicycles.
 
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supergtdman

Guest
If it was my forum, I'd have banned you as a troll by now.
It's like insisting a bicycle should have 3 wheels, because you're unable to ride one with 2 wheels

The example of adding a redundant 3rd wheel to a bicycle because I can't ride a 2 wheel... could you be more biased?
I don't think my system is different enough to be non gtd. does everyone here just use exactly the same system or maybe you do personalize it to fit your personal needs and workflows?
After using the standard approach for several years wouldn't you want to optimize it to better fit your life and new technology workflow?
I won't post here anymore, I'm really not getting much out of it other than always the same group of people quoting David Allen instead of thinking for themselves. If I wanted quotes from David Allen I could just re-read his book.
 

vbampton

Administrator
supergtdman;109059 said:
I don't think my system is different enough to be non gtd. does everyone here just use exactly the same system or maybe you do personalize it to fit your personal needs and workflows?

You cut out writing down next actions and the weekly review. That's about as central to GTD as it gets!

And at this point, I'm going to stop feeding. :rolleyes:
 

bcmyers2112

Registered
You are all too intelligent to be wasting time with a troll

I'm relatively new to participating in these forums but it only took a few minutes for me to realize that supergtdman is a troll. He has nothing of substance to contribute. He's an attention-seeker. Deny him that attention and eventually he'll find some other bridge to dwell under.

It's too bad because this is an interesting topic and the rest of you have contributed very thoughtful responses.

My personal experience suggests what others have articulated here: even if we could "remember" everything by utilizing technology (one of the founders of Evernote told Charlie Rose during an interview that Evernote is an "external brain") GTD would remain relevant. The technology does not yet exist that can make decisions about what our myriad inputs mean. Heaven help us if someone develops such technology. I think Skynet or the Matrix wouldn't be far behind. :)

Even though I could without referring to my lists tick of some key projects and their relevant next actions off the top of my head, I still need my GTD lists. I'm re-booting my GTD system (for reasons unique to me that aren't relevant to this discussion) and my list of projects is at 70 and growing. I expect to end up with 125 - 150. I can't remember all of those, nor can I easily apply the different GTD models for deciding what to do without having my lists in an external, reviewable format.

If someone rejects GTD this probably isn't the forum for them. I am going to ignore supergtdman and would urge everyone else to do the same. This is a forum about a productivity methodology and paying attention to trolls isn't very productive.
 

CJSullivan

Registered
Kelly's question says it all. Or, to borrow from GTD...

What is my desired outcome? To dig into a concept until I "prove" it won't work in every single instance in the known universe.

What is my next action? Annoy the heck out of people who are sincerely interested in tailoring a simple thought process so that it works for them as individuals.

Or perhaps you're just looking for attention, in which case you've succeeded - I've even replied here against my better judgement. If you enjoy being a contrarian, then more power to you - but I'm not buying from here on out.
 

bcmyers2112

Registered
Non-actionable input

supergtdman;109059 said:
I won't post here anymore, I'm really not getting much out of it other than always the same group of people quoting David Allen instead of thinking for themselves. If I wanted quotes from David Allen I could just re-read his book.

Ah, yes, the classic fall-back for the troll: you're all slavish devotees to [insert prominent person here]. This of course omits the possibility that one can test David Allen's ideas (as I have), weigh them against the alternatives (as I have), and come to a well-thought-out conclusion based on empirical experience that Mr. Allen's ideas are worth adopting (as I have).

I look forward to engaging in discussion with the rest of you, unimpeded by supergtdman because I've decided that his input is non-actionable, and of the three options for non-actionable material, his input is... trash. :)
 

Barb

Registered
Well said, everyone..well said!

You know, most of his comments--here and on other threads--indicate he doesn't fully grasp GTD. It seems he thinks GTD requires you must do things a certain way in order to be successful with it.

After 10 years of success with this system, I can't tell you of the number of ways I have customized, re-customized, morphed and changed over the years. There is nothing dogmatic about it at all. For GTDSuperman or whatever the troll is named to think so, only shows how shallow is understanding is.

But I think he'll be back. He won't be able to control himself. ;) And I won't be feeding.
 

Oogiem

Registered
bcmyers2112;109064 said:
I am going to ignore supergtdman and would urge everyone else to do the same.

Thanks for the comment. I forgot that there is an ignore list so I can add people I just flat don't want to engage with at all. Have to admit, this is the first person on that list in this forum.
 

jesig

Registered
CJSullivan;109065 said:
What is my desired outcome? To dig into a concept until I "prove" it won't work in every single instance in the known universe.

What is my next action? Annoy the heck out of people who are sincerely interested in tailoring a simple thought process so that it works for them as individuals.

Pretty sure sgm didn't review outcomes and come up with an NA--wasn't that the whole point of this? :grin:
 

Barb

Registered
He's gone!

Hey, he's really gone! If you look back at his posts (he was up all night editing them, btw), it now says "guest" and you can no longer hover over his name and see a profile. Hooray!
 

TesTeq

Registered
Sometimes it is useful to listen to someone who does not understand...

Barb;109076 said:
Hey, he's really gone! If you look back at his posts (he was up all night editing them, btw), it now says "guest" and you can no longer hover over his name and see a profile. Hooray!

Did you really care?

But some time ago I've discovered that:

Sometimes it is useful to listen to someone who does not understand what he is talking about.

It helps me to clarify my understanding of things, systems and interactions.
 

CJSullivan

Registered
jesig;109075 said:
Pretty sure sgm didn't review outcomes and come up with an NA--wasn't that the whole point of this? :grin:

Oh, I know - I just couldn't resist being snarky. I think this whole thread has taught me a lot about how I deal with things of which I disapprove! It is SO hard to just let things be sometimes! ;)
 

CJSullivan

Registered
TesTeq;109081 said:
Did you really care?

But some time ago I've discovered that:

Sometimes it is useful to listen to someone who does not understand what he is talking about.

It helps me to clarify my understanding of things, systems and interactions.

Wise words, TesTeq!
 

Barb

Registered
This was different

TesTeq;109081 said:
Did you really care?

But some time ago I've discovered that:

Sometimes it is useful to listen to someone who does not understand what he is talking about.

It helps me to clarify my understanding of things, systems and interactions.

Not understanding and seeking clarification and input from people in the forum is what this is all about. That wasn't the case with this guy--he just wanted to argue. And no, it doesn't help me clarify my understanding of things at all to see someone just be antagonistic. When someone puts another person down because they don't see things their way, that really bothers me. It wasn't just this thread--it was every thread he participated in.

Anyway, he's gone and we can all go back to sharing ideas in a positive and helpful way.
 

bcmyers2112

Registered
Life's too short

TesTeq;109081 said:
Sometimes it is useful to listen to someone who does not understand what he is talking about.

In my experience that's only true if the other person is self-aware enough to know the limits of his or her knowledge and has a sincere desire to learn. When someone's sole purpose is to argue for the sake of argument, I turn my back and walk away. Life's too short to do otherwise.
 
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