Feedback needed in setting up digital GTD system

[JeffB]

Hello everyone. I read the original GTD 6 years ago (liked it, but really didn't use the concepts other than the tickler file) and am finishing up reading the 2015 "upgrade". I'm glad I've done this! I would really appreciate any input and feedback that you would like to share to help give me some pointers.Let me give you some small background...

In short, I have been a devoted Franklin Covey user since 1994, and will likely use the 7 Habits as my over arching life philosophy the rest of my days However, as technology has advanced, it seemed I fell behind using my traditional paper planning system. (especially since all my work is cloud based now) Last year, determined to utilize modern tech to the fullest, I made myself give up my classy looking leather planner to use OneNote and Outlook exclusively. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I went running back to my paper planner at the beginning of 2015.

I heard David Allen rebooted GTD and got the book a month ago. I purchased the Outlook 2013 instructions at the same time I got the 2015 edition of GTD. (I am an Office 365 subscriber). I like this! The categories (@HOME, @OFFICE, .PROJECTS, etc) work well in tech and Outlook, and not so well on paper imo. My career is in online sales and marketing management, and while I do need the utility of physical (i.e. pen and paper) note taking, I really need an electronic PIM to be most effective.

The one weakness I see with Outlook in the short time I've used this is with Projects, or those things needing more than two steps to complete. Should I utilize the notes within the Outlook task to spell out the steps? It seems like OneNote would work well, but I haven't found a lot of information about OneNote and GTD so far. (The idea of utilizing Outlook Notes instead of OneNote didn't agree with me but I am willing to adjust my attitude on the matter. In short, I need my notes to work.)

Also, what about adding due dates to these list items? The Outlook 2013 instructions frowned upon that it seemed. Additionally, count me in as someone who has never got "to do" lists to work for me in a consistent fashion. That, more than anything is what I am excited about with GTD and Outlook.

My plan as of today is to really give GTD the commitment and focus I didn't before. It seems GTD is a true productivity tool. I'd like to use both for what I perceive them to be designed for; FC Planner for big life stuff. (Mission/Values/Roles/Goals/Design Your Life) And then to use GTD to provide action/next action decision making ability to the inevitable stuff that the day will provide.

I am just getting started, and as I stated at the beginning, would appreciate all feedback! Thanks for sharing. I am excited to finally commit to this.

 

[bcmyers2112]

The projects list is simply an index to facilitate the weekly review and project planning. It serves to remind you that you: a) have specific projects and b) need to do something about them. There's no reason why your project support (project plans, project-related notes, documents, etc.) needs to "live" within your projects list, as long as support material is in a place you can easily find and access when you need it.

Still, electronic solutions are nice in that you *can* often directly tie project support to projects. To answer your specific question about Outlook vs. OneNote, it depends on your specific use case. Are your projects the type that can easily be managed with flat lists or outlines? If so, keeping your project support in the notes section of the task representing the project will probably suffice. If your project plans are more complex, requiring tables, lots of electronic documents, web clippings, etc., then I think OneNote would be a better choice.

As for due dates, GTD coach/consultant Kelly Forrister suggests using due dates in your task list if an action needs to be done *by* a certain date, and adding the action to your calendar if it must be done *on* a certain date.

Welcome aboard the GTD bandwagon. I think you'll find GTD to be extremely beneficial.

 

[JeffB]

Thank you bcmyers2112 for your thoughts. Most of my projects utilize flat lists and outlines. I do run occasional complex projects, which is why I am drawn to OneNote in those situations. However, as I think it over, keeping those lists within Outlook is a simpler, less stressed way to keep track. (Why complicate things?)

I like the due date suggestion as well. Makes sense. This is something I'll have to adjust to. I find as I go through GTD that my traditional thinking is being challenged, which is a good thing. You can't grow if you're not willing to change.

 

[Karl Ivar]

Hi!

A comment to project notes and where to store them: To set ut a good digital GTD system, I find it important to have the GTD principals in the back of my head, so I find good solutions that suits these, and don´t get lost in all the possibilities a software can offer.

Regarding project notes, as David says- he has never seen two projects who needed the same amount of planing. Therefore I´d suggest you consider both solutions- Using the notes section of the task for projects needing less project support material, and for instance OneNote or more for projects needing a bigger amount of support material.

Just keep a short note, for instance in the note-field for the project or somewhere else easy reachable, of where to find the support material. Your support-material can principially be anywhere on yor computer, as long as it´s quick and fund to find it.

A great way to easily and effectively get to track of Project notes is to copy the link to the document, and then store the link with the project- for instance in a note section. Some programs, for instance Devonthink and Evernote supports this. Just right-click on the document and choose the option “copy item link”. In Evernote, you´ll have to had the document synced, and then you need to hold down the option-button (on mac, I guess “alt” on the PC) to see the option- It´s called “copy classic item link”.

Hope this helps!! Good luck! The GTD-method is amazing, and no matter how efficient you get in your work, there´s more exiting things to discover!!

 

[bcmyers2112]

I agree completely with Karl Ivar. There is no reason why you can't use OneNote for managing just a few projects if it would be of benefit. If you're not sure, try it and see if you like it.

 

[Stew]

JeffB,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. Your experience closely mirrors my own: Longtime Franklin Covey user who first discovered GTD in 2005 and adopted it wholeheartedly. In the last 4-5 years, my life circumstances changed and I returned to my trusted Franklin planner while still capturing, processing, organizing, reviewing. Overall, I've found that I feel more proactive and in control using Franklin; however, GTD allows me to be more efficient in using small windows of time to move projects forward.

That being said, I'm also currently attempting to combine the higher level planning of Franklin with the tactical effectiveness of GTD. I'm most comfortable using paper, but recognize the need to easily store, organize, and retrieve digital content. I'm a program manager for a small non-profit real estate consultancy. I might have 40-60 company initiatives on my plate at any one time (translate to 80-100 GTD projects, each with complex, concurrent next actions and dependencies).

I need a robust system to handle all the moving parts, and the Franklin Planner wasn't that good at tracking the minute details. I'd been using a single MS Word document for this purpose, but have recently experimented with Outlook and Office365. My company was already in this ecosystem, so it seemed like a natural fit. I use the Tasks feature as recommended by the David Allen Company and categorize each item as a next action or project. Rather than rely on a separate program such as OneNote, I use the notes field in a project to outline next actions, record call notes, and store important documents as attachments. In this way, all information pertaining to a project is in a single place. During my weekly review, I update each project and move the next actions into the appropriate contexts. I've tried Evernote, OneNote, and others, but I prefer the simplicity of using a single tool if possible.

Because I am a paper person, I print out my Outlook notes for the week during my Weekly Review. The finished product will include my next actions, project lists, someday-maybes, areas of focus, and yearly goals (all stored as Outlook tasks), monthly calendar, and notes for all active projects. I'm often in the field or without data connectivity for several days during the week, so a paper approach works best for me. I punch these into the same Levenger Circa notebook I'd used for my Franklin planner.

It sounds as though our systems are similar, and I hope my example is helpful. Best of luck!

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[Folke]

The one weakness I see with Outlook in the short time I've used this is with Projects, or those things needing more than two steps to complete. Should I utilize the notes within the Outlook task to spell out the steps?

I think there is one other take on this that so far has not been represented in the answers so far. Many people here, me included, like to put all their project actions into the app itself right away - not first enter them in any other notes system or otherwise pretend you are using paper.

There are plenty of apps that have this capability built in more or less out of the box, and many here on this forum use them: Omnifocus, Things, Doit, Nirvana, GTDNext, Zendone, Facilethings ... and the list goes on. I suggest you at least take a look at these. If you think they are too "complex" you can always revert to paper or some more simplistic "paper emulating" app or notes app.

Also, what about adding due dates to these list items? The Outlook 2013 instructions frowned upon that it seemed.

Yes, I have that same impression, and I also share that "frowning" sentiment. Unfortunately there are different interpretations of what GTD actually says, but it is my understanding (and has always been my practice) to use dates only for the "hard landscape", such as appointments or stipulated or agreed deadlines etc, things that you cannot change unilaterally without renegotiating them with someone (or with mother nature).

At the same time it is felt by many that there is a need to somehow "highlight" particularly important things such that you do not overlook them. Some people use dates for this and even put them on the calendar. I use colors for this, but no dates. The app I use, Doit, has a neat, discreet but clear, color coding feature in three levels that suits my needs perfectly. But that's a matter of taste.

Core GTD itself (as described in the first book of 2001) definitely advised against all uses of soft dates and/or other written prioritizations at the action level, but on the other hand advises people to adapt the system to their own needs. Core GTD does recommend a brutal prioritization at the weekly level by simply moving entire projects in and out of the project list (and in and out of Someday), which is something I do not do. I use Someday only for things that I am not certain I will ever do, not for prioritizing among committed things. (I do not want to mix up decided and undecided things on the same list. I will keep all the decided things on the same list, but use a "low attention" color for some.)

 

[Stew]

Core GTD does recommend a brutal prioritization at the weekly level by simply moving entire projects in and out of the project list (and in and out of Someday), which is something I do not do.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'd missed this nuance in my many readings of the book, but it seems as though it might be useful. I've always approached my weekly review from the broader perspective of "things I've committed to" vs. the specific and timebound "things this week". I'll have to give this a try.

 

[Karl Ivar]

In the weekly review, I try to keep my project-list as small as possible- and all the projects and actions that I´m sure I won´t be able to move forward on during the coming week I park on someday maybe. I also like to think about someday-maybe as “not this week”. For me, that´s an enormous load of commitments taken off my shoulders, leaving me with only the most important stuff, and not more on my lists than I know I can handle, and as so little that it´s easy enough for me to prioritise.

In order for this to work, I need to go through my someday-maybe-lists during the weekly review. I there have taken the suggestion from Kelly and Meg, and created a special weekly review-someday maybe-list, where I park items that I need to review every week. I also have several other someday maybe-lists, but I´m not committed to go through these on a weekly basis.

 

[Folke]

I need to go through my someday-maybe-lists during the weekly review. I there have taken the suggestion from Kelly and Meg, and created a special weekly review-someday maybe-list, where I park items that I need to review every week. I also have several other someday maybe-lists, but I´m not committed to go through these on a weekly basis.

I do it very similarly. I keep three "classes" of Someday/Maybe. The normal type (blue bar) I review weekly. The "low attention" type (turquoise bar) I review only a few times a year. The red class I check whenever I have time to drop by the Someday list during the week - these are usually the taunting things that seem so extremely tempting but might perhaps backfire completely - so I have not been able to decide yet.

I also like to think about someday-maybe as “not this week”.

That is very different from how I look upon it - but I suppose you are right; it sounds like what David describes. But for me it is like this: If I have "committed" to doing an action I like to keep it on my next (context) lists at all times, just in case I happen to be in that context. (But I mark the not-so-hot next actions with the "low attention" color to keep me from drowning in them. I review those "low attention Next" only once per week, just like a "regular attention Someday", so in that sense we are dealing with them quite similarly, ay least as far as the review interval is concerned.)

 

[Oogiem]

Core GTD does recommend a brutal prioritization at the weekly level by simply moving entire projects in and out of the project list (and in and out of Someday), which is something I do not do.

I do this all the time. I tend to keep all projects that I might get to or that require a certain season to work on active but once that time has passed I dump any unfinished ones into Someday triggered to come active again next year at the right season. I am also becoming much more proactive on flushing to S/M any projects that I know I won't get to in this month. I don't yet go to showing only things I expect to do this week, as weather can change things too much.

 

[Folke]

Sorry if I was unclear, Oogie. Just like you, I "tickle" projects that are now impossible for "hard landscape" reasons, e.g. wrong season or approval will be announced only in October etc. I do not keep these in Someday, though - they belong in my Tickler file, the way I see it.

What I do not do, however, and which is what I was referring to initially, is the second category you mentioned, deprioritizing certain projects to Someday just because you "plan" to be busy with other things (but not because your commitment about those projects is in any way uncertain). But David Allen does indeed recommend it exactly the way you do it ... ;-)

 

[Oogiem]

What I do not do, however, and which is what I was referring to initially, is the second category you mentioned, deprioritizing certain projects to Someday just because you "plan" to be busy with other things (but not because your commitment about those projects is in any way uncertain).

I do that all the time too. I always have way more projects I am actually committed to doing than I can possibly finish in the season for working on them. Plus many of my projects are the sorts of things that have perhaps a single action that can be done now and the next a different season. Some projects are long term, spanning years or even decades but that doesn't make them any less a project. It's contrary to the standard GTD definition of a project but an example is Replace all the elk fences around the grazing area was a clear, defined project with explicit steps that ended up taking 6 years to complete. It got moved in and out of S/M frequently as the situation warranted even though we were fully committed to doing it as soon as possible. Right now I have a very low 128 current active projects with about another 100 in pending or tickler status and several hundered in someday/maybe. That is after pulling out nearly 400 someday/maybe projects into a single DEVONThink note per area to move the things like various knitting, scrapbook, sewing, weaving and spinning items out of my main Omnifocus list and only keeping in it the current active project for each of those craft areas. I also pulled out the huge list of "Things I want to learn" so that I'm only working on one or 2 at a time, right now it's a class in Meat Production as part of my Masters program and working on my marksmanship. We've got a coyote problem at the moment so that is a high priority item to get better at. We are also expecting a bear invasion this fall given the lack of fruit in the valley, berries up high and the number of bears killing range sheep right now. I need to be ready when they arrive.

Projects that I am uncertain about doing are in a different category. Usually they are just dumped into a single large bucket list type note for review quarterly. Some do become active with an action of "Decide whether to pursure X" and then either end up in a someday/maybe list or dumped off completely. A few of those were very hard to remove, they were dreams/wishes from my past that I finally had to admit I'd never actually do. Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do, admit that something is no longer an item you want/plan to do, especially if it's been something you thought you did want to do for many years.

With GTD I have a framework for keeping all those pieces in appropriate places and a methodology for deciding if they are still important that has made the decisions easier.

 

[JeffB]

I need a robust system to handle all the moving parts, and the Franklin Planner wasn't that good at tracking the minute details. I'd been using a single MS Word document for this purpose, but have recently experimented with Outlook and Office365. My company was already in this ecosystem, so it seemed like a natural fit. I use the Tasks feature as recommended by the David Allen Company and categorize each item as a next action or project. Rather than rely on a separate program such as OneNote, I use the notes field in a project to outline next actions, record call notes, and store important documents as attachments. In this way, all information pertaining to a project is in a single place. During my weekly review, I update each project and move the next actions into the appropriate contexts. I've tried Evernote, OneNote, and others, but I prefer the simplicity of using a single tool if possible.

Thanks Ryan for the feedback. I feel similarly. One of the concepts of GTD that I "got" immediately was that of workflow. I see so many fellow employees and teammates struggle because they don't understand that work most flow forward one logical step at a time. The FC method to me is more of an executive planning tool, and if you have more than 4 people report to you, or you are responsible for making sure that workflow goes forward for entire sets of teams, then that tool is not right for the job. I am intrigued by OmniFocus, but until I get a Macbook (I am on a Lenovo right now) it seems right to press ahead using Outlook.

I think there is one other take on this that so far has not been represented in the answers so far. Many people here, me included, like to put all their project actions into the app itself right away - not first enter them in any other notes system or otherwise pretend you are using paper.

There are plenty of apps that have this capability built in more or less out of the box, and many here on this forum use them: Omnifocus, Things, Doit, Nirvana, GTDNext, Zendone, Facilethings ... and the list goes on. I suggest you at least take a look at these. If you think they are too "complex" you can always revert to paper or some more simplistic "paper emulating" app or notes app.

Folke, I really appreciate your feedback here. While I feel I understand the GTD methodology in theory (I really study these things harder than your average bear) this is something I will have to muddle through via good old fashioned practice. I looked at a couple of apps, and OmniFocus seems the best, except I don't run a Mac at the moment.

Regarding project notes, as David says- he has never seen two projects who needed the same amount of planing. Therefore I´d suggest you consider both solutions- Using the notes section of the task for projects needing less project support material, and for instance OneNote or more for projects needing a bigger amount of support material.

Thank you Karl. I am still experimenting with OneNote. I am one of those that falls into the trap of using a new app if it's "cool", not if it works. That is becoming less of a problem the older I get and the more responsibilities I assume.

 

[JeffB]

Well, it's been a couple of weeks, and I am WAY more productive and in control. Also, happier. Imagine that..

Since I started in Outlook, it feels like I want to stay with it. The customization guide was great, and the fact that it lives in the MS infrastructure is very good. However, when I am out on the go, I find I have to do @Errand lists within OneNote because (unless I have totally missed something) there is no way to sync the categories with the NA items to my iPhone. This doesn't agree with me, which is why I am now playing around with some of the typical apps that are used for GTD. (Todoist, IQTell, to name a couple)

Overall, this is working out very well. I am glad I read the book 6 years ago, and even happier that I have started to implement it with focus this time.

(...still bothered by the lack of Outlook syncability though...)

 

[JeffB]

Update: The lack of Outlook mobility is bothering me. I love the to do list in IQTELL, but the desktop version is not satisfactory. Toodledo is ugly for my taste but functional. Todoist doesn't have the ability to add notes very easily. (a strong feature on the desktop in Outlook btw).

Not to worry, I will make a decision. My criteria, if anyone cares to comment are (in roughly this order)

Simplicity
Ability to add notes with the task
Near instant syncability

I don't mind paying a yearly fee. Thanks again for all the opinions. They are strong on this forum, and that is a good thing.

 

[Folke]

FWIW, I'd like to recommend two other alternatives - Doit or Nirvana. I like both, and I have used both (and other apps before that). Both meet the three criteria you mentioned. Neither of them is expensive ($20 vs $40 per year).

Both are quite simple and clean-looking. Both have a built-in distinction between Next, Waiting and Someday and have those clearly listed in the left menu. (I prefer this over apps such as Omnifocus and Zendone that expect you to create "contexts" etc for Waiting and Someday.)

Both also have contexts and projects listed in the left menu, which is convenient. And both have both ticklers and deadlines and a today list. (Watch out: surprisingly many apps lack tickler functionality).

Doit is the one I now use. I has more features than Nirvana, although most of these extra features are silly. I use only two of the features that Nirvana does not have - quick, flexible regrouping of any list (e.g Next actions) by project or by context etc etc, and the color coding feature (called priority in the app) that I have mentioned before. I put great value in both those features. But most of the other extras are - IMO - not much use. For example, Doit has email reminders, some kind of inbox brainstorming prompt, progress assessment and loads of other things that I do not use, but the good thing is that these things are invisible unless you use them. The only big annoyance is a conceptual flaw regarding the today list. Nirvana is even cleaner in the sense that much of the junk was left out already from the beginning.

YMMV

 

[JeffB]

Thank you Folke. You have mentioned those in other threads I believe. I will look at them today!

 

[JeffB]

Nirvana doesn't seem that easy to navigate via the contexts, which seems to be a strength for both DoIt and Todoist.

Btw, Todoist, I just learned, calls notes "Comments".

I must remind myself to make a decision and keep it simple. Because the 18 year old geek in me wants to come out and play with all of these task managers. The 40 year adult that I am is sending him to his room.

 

[Folke]

Todoist is clean and pretty. (My oldest uncompleted task there is 2409 days old; just checked). One of the beauties of Todoist is the simple, unlimited task hierarchy that allows you to structure your goals, areas, projects, subprojects etc hierarchically in any way you please. If that is what attracts you most, I can mention GTDNext and MyLifeOrganized as further alternatives that have that. Todoist also has a very neat and clear priority color coding that you can use for whatever purpose you like, and it also has a neat color coding for the hierarchical branches, without making it look messy or cheap in any way with all these little color dots.

The disadvantages that I saw, in case you are not aware of them, is the absence of a tickler feature (hide/defer until date) and very limited ways to view your data (and you tend to have to set up a new search every time you want to view a different kind of selection - tod, p1, p2 etc). These weaknesses can probably be worked around to some extent, but made me move to Toodledo at the time (2409 days ago). Also, it is still very apparent from Todoist's lists that they are firmly steeped in date-based thinking (tomorrow, next 7 days etc), but so are many other apps. I sure find that annoying and tragical, but know it is something I have to put up with almost everywhere. (I would much rather see developers creatively adding capabilities to map the "firm" landscape, though, but that's probably just me.)