Why do GTD Task Manager videos on YouTube not have GTD Contexts?

[JeffB]

Since contexts are important, I would assume that categories like @COMPUTER, or @CALLS would be standard. But none of these apps with their videos teach it. It's like they are trying to latch on to the GTD momentum but then show off a completely different process. (so don't say you are inspired by GTD and have your apps setup the way they are supposed to.) Todoist seems to be pretty good, but their Project list doesn't agree with my eye, although I do like the labels, which is where you add your contexts.

(of course, I promised myself I wouldn't get too crazy on the apps and programs available, but I am thinking ahead once I master the basics with Outlook 2013)

I have looked into Todoist, Toodledo, RTM, and IQTELL for starters. (Nirvana hasn't updated their app in a while, big red flag for me.) I setup Outlook 2013 and really enjoy it for my GTD, however, the lack of ability to sync projects and NA lists with my iPhone has my concerned about sticking with it for too long. (Maybe MS finally upgrades their Outlook app to include tasks. I am not holding my breath) These four companies videos don't really show contexts well, which is my big complaint at the moment. Of course, I am new to the whole thing so maybe I am missing something. (and yet, they claim to be inspired by, and work well with, GTD methodology.)

Bottom line, I would like the ability to sync my tasks and Projects/NA items to my smartphone from my PC. Outlook doesn't sync into an app directly, although Outlook 2013 is off to a good start for me. So not too much complaining on my end. Just brainstorming for a bit, and I am sure this is an old conversation for veterans of this board, so I hope you'll forgive me for bringing up what is likely a very old topic.

 

[JeffB]

Update and apologies: After perusing through the various posts on this board, clearly this is something that has come up again and again. The overwhelming answer to "which app works best" always seems to be:

The app doesn't matter, follow the process and adapt.
If it agrees with you, use it. If it doesn't, don't use it.

Good stuff! Feel free to ignore this particular topic. I know what I must do.

 

[devon.marie]

I use Todoist for GTD, and find their recommended setup inferior. If you are considering Todoist and want to know how I use the app, I'll happily comply - but I won't spam the thread otherwise

 

[kelstarrising]

[h=2]Why do GTD Task Manager videos on YouTube not have GTD Contexts?[/h] Many developers, unfortunately, don't really get GTD, even by a mile. But they use the name in their marketing anyway, knowing it will sell software. Here's a list Davidco put together a few years ago of ones that the Coaches have come across enough to know they work for successful GTD implementation: http://gettingthingsdone.com/common-tools-software/

 

[JeffB]

Hello chrimer.... "Spam" away. I am looking for good ideas!

Thank you kelstarrising for the link! Yes, I can see that these app developers don't get it at all.

 

[Folke]

I think the official list is very strange. What is it that Outlook or iPhone Reminders or Evernote or any of the others on the list really "get" regarding GTD that the hundreds of other app developers do not get? I think most of them appear a bit weak at getting it, or more likely do not even try or care - they support plenty of other kinds of customers and usage styles. (Luckily you can do GTD with virtually any tool.)

Most of those on the list seem to be clear-cut cases of the type that neither tries nor cares; the only one I can see on the list that has tried and reasonably succeeded in understanding and implementing a GTD inspired approach specifically is Omnifocus, but all the others that I know of that have tried and reasonably succeeded at that are not listed at all (e.g. Nirvana, Zendone, GTDNext, Getitdoneapp, Facilethings, Things ...).

Would it be appropriate for Davidco to mention, review and critique as many as possible of those who claim to be "GTD" or "GTD inspired"? I think lots of people would be interested in hearing your opinions. And it might stimulate the development of useful features and uses - and vice versa.

 

[John Forrister]

Would it be appropriate for Davidco to mention, review and critique as many as possible of those who claim to be "GTD" or "GTD inspired"? I think lots of people would be interested in hearing your opinion. And it might stimulate the development of useful features and uses - and vice versa.

I would have a great time reviewing apps for their GTD compatibility. I can picture a table with a list of apps, features, and some kind of rating(s). So far I haven't figured out a way to produce a list that's vetted to our high standards and make the enormous investment in time cost-effective. Any thoughts on that from Folke or anyone else?

 

[Folke]

I am not sure it would have to be such a rigid affair. (The current list is not particularly scientific either, and still apparently serves a purpose.)

I think it would go a long way with just some spontaneous reflections about what the developer seems to have focused on, things that are particularly well developed and polished and stand out as unusually well suited for GTD, and, conversely, what types of things seem to be totally missing or awkward or hamper productivity.

And you could make these reviews longer or more detailed or systematic over time if you notice that they draw visitors. Just a thought. I imagine there could be debate, also, in conjunction with this, if you choose to allow this; this could attract more visitors (but it would need to be managed well).

 

[Gardener]

OmniFocus supports contexts and, as far as I can tell, all of the GTD process. But that doesn't do a non-Mac user much good.

 

[TesTeq]

I think the official list is very strange. What is it that Outlook or iPhone Reminders or Evernote or any of the others on the list really "get" regarding GTD that the hundreds of other app developers do not get?

I think you can find the answer by CAREFULLY reading what Kelly wrote:

Here's a list Davidco put together a few years ago of ones that the Coaches have come across enough to know they work for successful GTD implementation: http://gettingthingsdone.com/common-tools-software/

 

[Folke]

You are absolutely right TesTeq. I took a gamble when taking that ugly shortcut. Sorry if I sidetracked you (or anyone else).

Here is the longer, correct, version:

1) Kelly, I agree that many developers do not understand ... etc ....

2) Kelly, I have seen that list before and it has always struck me as a bit strange ... etc ...

I might add here, what I did not say earlier, that the existing list does at least serve one good purpose. If someone has just read or heard of GTD and has the anxious question "Would I need some very special or expensive equipment" etc, then the list demonstrates that even the commonest among tools can be used.

What the list does not answer are questions such as: "In what way are the so-called GTD apps usually different from other apps - is it just marketing or is there some real difference that matters?". "Any significant improvements I might be able to make by using a 'GTD' app?" etc

Contexts - and a preference for situational decision making by the gut in the moment - is one of the more "unusual" traits of GTD. Therefore, this might be one of the areas that app reviews might focus on - "How easy and powerful is the app for supporting situational decision making in the moment?"

 

[TesTeq]

What the list does not answer are questions such as: "In what way are the so-called GTD apps usually different from other apps - is it just marketing or is there some real difference that matters?". "Any significant improvements I might be able to make by using a 'GTD' app?" etc

I think answering these questions is outside of the scope of the David Allen Company business model. From time to time they were trying to cooperate with a selected software developer to create The Real GTD App but these attempts weren't very successful. I can see no profit in reviewing thousands of apps that are advertised as GTD-compatible.

 

[Folke]

Participating in the creation of new software is not what I am talking about. And I am surprised you do not already know that ;-)

(But I can perfectly understand both the past temptations they have had, and also why the Intentional Software venture had to come to an end - that was a huge fuzzy all-encompassing ambition to bring virtually everything in the world together - in a world where people have a hard time even developing a smooth standalone list app. And maybe there were other reasons as well).

Whether there are thousands of apps or not I do not know. And whether they would have to review all or be very structured about it in some other way I do not know either. It could be just a simple blog where they write an article a month about some app. Or some other simple format. The profit, if any, of in this way conveying helpful and concrete insights to people (users and developers) would be to increase the awareness and curiosity about GTD and Davidco, and indirectly to also foster the emergence of ever more appropriate tools for GTD. The monetary profits of this, if any, would come in the form of increased book sales, connect memberships, corporate consulting etc (perhaps in the longer run also fees from "certified" apps). It is like all other forms of marketing - the more people see and value your company, the better off you tend to be.

As you say, though, their business model and marketing strategy is their decision, and I share your feeling that this may well be outside what they have had in mind.

 

[JeffB]

This conversation pushes me back to a basic fundamental: Just do it the way David Allen says. (or, Keep It Simple Sweetheart)

What I have observed is that app developers (and even some people who endeavor to put their own spin on GTD) have taken something that Allen deliberately tried to make simple, and complicate it. Experience teaches me that is when things start to break down. Look at Apple vs Google: Apple has 4 products and $40 billion in the bank, while Google is losing market cap as it stumbles through massive failures like Google+, Google Glass, etc. While this is over simplifying the matter, the difference is focus. Apple knows and focuses on it's core. Google doesn't even know what its core is anymore.

I wonder how more productive we would all be if we chose to simplify instead of complicate?

When it comes to personal productivity systems, regardless of what it looks like, the idea should be to simplify so you can focus and do quality work with that focus. One thing I appreciate about GTD and Allen is that he purposely does not endorse one program, and he encourages minimalism when it comes to your day. I went back to GTD (after really never doing giving it a chance) because I was chasing all of these shiny new programs and books. Guess what works? Paper and an inbox. Not sexy, but it is effective.

And as I look at fellow professionals, as talented as they are, they can't get out of their own way sometimes, and they have the latest app! I would suggest that if one is "overwhelmed", you have a choice to stop that. Simplify. Put it all in an inbox. Act, defer, delegate, or trash it!

Sorry for the rant. I have seen too much today at work and I am GRATEFUL I made the decision to pursue GTD. I am already seeing that an app won't make a difference if we don't make a difference on our thinking. And for me, it really is about quality of life and being happy at work and at home. Ok, I've typed too much... Lunchtime!

 

[bcmyers2112]

Sorry for the rant.

Why? What you wrote was very insightful. I think a lot of people worry about finding "the perfect app" because they are convinced that the lists they create by following the GTD process will be overwhelming. But here's the thing -- those lists can only come from things that were already rattling around in your head, or in your email inbox, or your voicemail, or wherever else your inputs come from. That's what's overwhelming. Something as simple as listing all of the calls you need to make in a "calls" list is more powerful than any whizbang so-called GTD app I've ever encountered. Capturing the stuff in your life, clarifying it, and organizing it in a logical way gives you an appropriate level of control. The key word is "appropriate." At one time I was obsessed with GTD apps because I sought total control over my life but that's illusory. None of us are in complete control. But it is easier to respond to life's mean curveballs when your head is clear. And one good way to clear your head is to use it to have ideas but not to hold them, as DA puts it so nicely.

 

[Dave Edwards]

Let me echo what has been said by bcmeyers2112 and others: there is no perfect app.

I've played around with some of those on the GTD list and a few others. My conclusion is that it is all about how you use it. For example, I've added context fields to some where contexts is not built in. I've also found that some on the GTD list turned about to be clunky.

I've never done GTD on paper....but I suspect that paper is the closest to be 'perfect' as it gives you maximum flexibility even tho it isn't as portable or readily accessible as are digital based systems.

Dave

 

[TesTeq]

I've never done GTD on paper....but I suspect that paper is the closest to be 'perfect' as it gives you maximum flexibility even tho it isn't as portable or readily accessible as are digital based systems.

For me the main advantage of a paper GTD implementation is that it slows you down. You cannot just copy an e-mail to create a project. You have to think, distill what's important and write it down. Cut and paste functionality is an enemy of a real stuff processing required by GTD.

 

[Folke]

For me the main advantage of a paper GTD implementation is that it slows you down. You cannot just copy an e-mail to create a project. You have to think, distill what's important and write it down. Cut and paste functionality is an enemy of a real stuff processing required by GTD.

I think that is a very important statement. The thinking process is key to it all. Everything else becomes meaningless if there is no thinking involved.

And it does seem to be the case (judging by posts I read here and there) that many somehow get caught up in a mindless copying exercise when using a computer (e.g. forwarding entire emails, auto-generate projects ... the list goes on). I have had plenty of "arguments" about this in various platform forums, where I am usually in the minority advocating "manual" entry, mindful wording etc.

Many app features are comparable to alcohol - you may want to have it readily available at home, but you should avoid drinking yourself unconscious all the time. And some app features are so "bad" that they are best avoided at all times.

Again, I think there is whole lot that could be meaningfully commented on in an app review blog - and interesting and amusing and engaging. There is no perfect app, so there would be no shortage of shortcomings to comment on. And some developers have done at least something really well, which would also be worth commenting on. But I will rest my case for now.

 

[JeffB]

For me the main advantage of a paper GTD implementation is that it slows you down. You cannot just copy an e-mail to create a project. You have to think, distill what's important and write it down. Cut and paste functionality is an enemy of a real stuff processing required by GTD.

This is it for me in a nutshell with GTD. It's designed to slow you down at first, so you can speed up throughout the day.

The problem isn't an app, the problem is how we address all the work, tasks, and general thoughts in our head. Whether they go in an app or on a piece of paper in a folder, the key is to slow down, think, and make a well informed decision that moves the ball down the field. For anyone who has ever dealt with a CRM change at their company, ultimately, a new CRM doesn't matter if employees don't use it and aren't engaged with it. All a CRM is, is a relational database. All a task manager app is, is a way to manage lists of work. From there, it's up to the user, not the app maker.

The lightbulb went off as I wrote this. Task manager apps are just like CRM's. Some companies think there is a better program, and believe the program is the problem. When instead, the real problem is the lack of a process that worked. All programs and apps are just shells that have to be filled by the user, nothing more. Once you have the process coupled with engagement, the app doesn't matter as much. (yes, there are better list managers, just like some CRM's are better than others, but at the end of the day, someone with a plan can work with a bad CRM or a list manager and beat a disengaged worker on a better CRM.)

 

[Folke]

While I would agree that general driving skills and the ability to find one's way from A to B are more fundamental than the car itself, I think it would be going way too far to claim that the car itself is not worth discussing. For someone who is skilled enough a driver, or as good as he/she is ever going to get, things like leg room, seats, speed, fuel consumption, cup holders etc can make the difference between a comfortable ride and an uncomfortable one.

But it is always good to hear when someone has stopped getting themselves hurt crashing Lamborghinis

As for the original question, why app developers focus less on contexts than on scheduling capabilities and other things I would guess that this arises from the likely fact that most personal productivity approaches are based on project management approaches for organizations and teams. Under such circumstances scheduling is just about the only way to plan things. You cannot really use the gut or situational factors like contexts to decide what is going to happen next (whose gut? how would the others know?). Instead, everything that has any degree of significance gets scheduled (and debated and agreed) in advance. Most personal models follow this approach. The closest thing they have to "next actions" is what they often call the "backlog". Everything else gets calendar scheduled. Context then only has a meaning at the time when their activities are planned (they obviously try to schedule activities wisely for synergy etc), but from that moment and onwards context and energy etc have no relevance to them.

GTD is very different. As an illustration (food for thought?) it could be said that with GTD we treat our whole life as a giant "backlog". We only schedule those few things that would take additional actions to renegotiate (appointments, agreed deadlines etc), but all the rest we leave unscheduled up until the decision is made to do them right there and then. What a difference! GTD is more similar to how people intuitively handle their commitments and wishes (lots of people use no tools or philosophies at all, and lots intuitively just use a few different context and agenda lists, and sometimes an appointment calendar), whereas a scheduled approach is more typical for people who have been trained for teamwork in organizations, and who prefer to use that same model for their personal tasks.

I am definitely in the GTD camp. I have no difficulty imagining why the GTD approach can alienate some, but I think if you would change or modify GTD in those fundamental respects it would no longer really be GTD.

I think (or agree) that many app developers who call themselves GTD etc are actually undermining the GTD philosophy more than they are promoting and teaching it. A simple and perhaps trivial example is this: In most apps the "tickler file" is called "scheduled", which is more suggestive of a project management approach (to schedule everything that matters) than of GTD (to leave everything as open as you can, unless it is "hard"). I sometimes wonder if the developer was even aware of the concept of the tickler file when they built the app (the fact that the tickler file serves a very different purpose than the calendar).