Beyond 10,000 ft

[kewms]

YMMV, but in my experience maintaining too tight a link between the runway and higher levels causes more problems than it solves. Partly this is because categories inherently blur together at the higher levels: *especially* if I am living in accordance with my higher goals, many projects will advance more than one goal or fall into more than one Area of Focus. At the same time, much of the mundania of daily life doesn't seem to advance any goal except in vague general terms, but still needs to be done.

Meanwhile, the higher level content isn't going to change very often. Life roles evolve over months and years, or even decades. Personal values don't change much at all once people reach adulthood. I've found that monthly and semi-annual strategic reviews are more than adequate to stay in touch with the higher level stuff. For me, at least, an overly structured system tends to impede, rather than facilitate, this kind of review. It's more helpful to start from scratch, see where I am now, and compare to where I was at the last review.

Katherine

 

[jpm]

YMMV, but in my experience maintaining too tight a link between the runway and higher levels causes more problems than it solves. Partly this is because categories inherently blur together at the higher levels: *especially* if I am living in accordance with my higher goals, many projects will advance more than one goal or fall into more than one Area of Focus. At the same time, much of the mundania of daily life doesn't seem to advance any goal except in vague general terms, but still needs to be done.

I agree. Maintaining such links increases overhead and is not really worth the effort.

What I have found is that while often many projects advance more than one goal, at times there are projects (or even goals) that are in conflict. In these instances, I've found that the realization that there is a detailed under-lying cause and effect structure allows me to think through the problem in such a way as to eliminate the conflict. In fact, what I've found is that if I'm not making progress toward a goal, it's probably because of a conflict due to an invalid assumption.

If it's on your mind, it's on your mind for a reason. It may be a higher altitude problem that you need to think about.

 

[LuxNox]

I agree. Maintaining such links increases overhead and is not really worth the effort.

What I have found is that while often many projects advance more than one goal, at times there are projects (or even goals) that are in conflict. In these instances, I've found that the realization that there is a detailed under-lying cause and effect structure allows me to think through the problem in such a way as to eliminate the conflict. In fact, what I've found is that if I'm not making progress toward a goal, it's probably because of a conflict due to an invalid assumption.

If it's on your mind, it's on your mind for a reason. It may be a higher altitude problem that you need to think about.

You know Allen could have named the system by its paradoxical opposite: Putting things to rest.

The conflict wasn't because of an invalid assumption per se...the assumption was symptom of the real conflict. The conflict came because you took on something outside your level of understanding which lead to the invalid assumption. Say if you passed the issue along to someone who knew how to handle the problem correctly, then, it would save you the time of figuring whatever the caused the conflict. The question then becomes do you want to do that with every piece of paper that crosses your desk or solidify in advance (20k) what your responsibilities (which do change). Truth is GTD is only 1/2 complete without 20k. 20k feeds 30k. 30k feeds 40k. 40k feeds 50k. And,most importantly, greed or necessity feed all of them. And, far as the last line is concerned, it's important to know what's feeding your levels. It is awareness that brings comfort...not the unknown.

In other words, if you just need a list to do all the work that crosses your desk...then, just do it. Your work doesn't care. If you need a system to determine what you should be doing...and maybe not doing (putting them to rest), then, this is where GTD comes in.

 

[Brent]

There is great wisdom in this thread.

In a talk that David Allen gave at Google (watch on YouTube), he mentions that many clients want to be able to type all their work into some application, then hit a big red button and have it tell them, "Call Bob." But life simply doesn't work that way. Things change too often; even if you could create that system, you'd spend all your time updating it.

 

[Cpu_Modern]

even if you could create that system, you'd spend all your time updating it.

That is the ultimate point in the whole maintaining links between the levels issue. Thanks for clearly stating this!

Does anybody know where the need for this "linking" stems from on a psychological level? Any ideas?

 

[Borisoff]

I used to and still think a lot about linking Projects to Next Action. But that thinking blurs with years of GTD practise. To releive the psyche I believe that it's important to put a new Next Action when the previous is done and do Weekly Review to update Next Actions when needed.

And I think that higher levels are just checklists that generate new projects. And new projects generate new higher levels. What would you do when you have a chance to do something very interesting to you that could change your life but that were not in your plans?

 

[LuxNox]

That is the ultimate point in the whole maintaining links between the levels issue. Thanks for clearly stating this!

Does anybody know where the need for this "linking" stems from on a psychological level? Any ideas?

Psychological: Self-actualization and Spiritual: Integrity.

 

[abhay]

That is the ultimate point in the whole maintaining links between the levels issue. Thanks for clearly stating this!

Does anybody know where the need for this "linking" stems from on a psychological level? Any ideas?

I think there are two reasons: misinterpretation of "get it all out", and traditional ways of "organizing". While we have it all linked in a very complex manner in our head, it cannot be practically contained in a system which is continually updated. But it's not needed either; we can see the links as soon as we see the individual items in the inventory. Perhaps this is hard to believe, but not hard to actually try out!

And traditionally, one would keep all things related to a project (or something higher) together, and use that itself while choosing to work, unlike the separate next action lists. Perhaps it's the insecurity of separating these two and diverging from the traditional methods.

Regards,
Abhay

 

[LuxNox]

my last post on this thread.

The strangest thing about this thread...this board a lot of people sound like they have a 100 roles and 5000 commitments tugging at them all times. If so, I'd have to introduce you to my friend: Dela Gates-Role.

With that said, I know 20k and higher can become a daunting task...but, it's worth it.

 

[jpm]

The conflict wasn't because of an invalid assumption per se...the assumption was symptom of the real conflict. The conflict came because you took on something outside your level of understanding which lead to the invalid assumption. Say if you passed the issue along to someone who knew how to handle the problem correctly, then, it would save you the time of figuring whatever the caused the conflict.

Theory of Constraints (TOC) functions because of the underlying principle that there are no conflicts in reality. This comes from the physical sciences, specifically physics, which has an underlying principle that there can be no contradictions in reality.

I know this is probably a difficult thing for most people to grasp, but I've found it to be very true. We see conflicts everywhere and often make compromises in order to deal with the conflicts. It requires deep critical thinking, but I've been able to resolve some incredibly limiting beliefs and come up with solutions that eliminate the conflicts.

So while I think it may be a pedantic point, I disagree. The false assumption is not the underlying symptom of the real conflict, but rather the conflict is an underlying symptom of the incorrect assumption. ymmv of course.

The question then becomes do you want to do that with every piece of paper that crosses your desk or solidify in advance (20k) what your responsibilities (which do change). Truth is GTD is only 1/2 complete without 20k. 20k feeds 30k. 30k feeds 40k. 40k feeds 50k. And,most importantly, greed or necessity feed all of them. And, far as the last line is concerned, it's important to know what's feeding your levels. It is awareness that brings comfort...not the unknown.

I think we're trying to say the same thing. My point was not that this was helpful everytime you pick up a piece of paper that goes across your desk.

It has more to do (for me at least) with unmet goals. If I've been working toward accomplishing someething for several months, and I don't seem to be making progress toward it then it's time for me to examine my underlying assumptions and at least try to understand what the underlying cause and effect relationships are. If the goal is important enough, I will use the TOC thinking tools (of which the S&T tree I linked to above is one).

For most day to day stuff that crosses my desk, having outlined what my higher altitudes are is very helpful in determining how to process stuff. I just found that when I run into problems, getting a little more clarity is helpful and TOC provides a set of tools that helps in that regard.

 

[Oogiem]

I'd have to introduce you to my friend: Dela Gates-Role.

There is no one I can delegate anything to, except a few things to my hubby, and perhaps hire someone for things we have neither the skills or time to complete but we're not in a business or life that has and supports "staff". We're it and have to do everything or it won't get done.

Saying delegate is practically worthless to folks like me.

 

[LuxNox]

There is no one I can delegate anything to, except a few things to my hubby, and perhaps hire someone for things we have neither the skills or time to complete but we're not in a business or life that has and supports "staff". We're it and have to do everything or it won't get done.

I agree. If you have roles that you can handle, then handle them. The issue comes up when you have roles that you can't handle. Delegate the ones you can't handle...or drop them asap. The problem is we get wrapped up in our "misunderstanding" and continue to "hurt" ourselves with them.

However, I suspect you do more delegating than you're privy to...that is, unless you see a DirectTV advert and can't wait to put the dish up yourself. 20k helps you clarify why you'd rather pay (delegate to) that guy with the white van to install your dish.

 

[LuxNox]

Theory of Constraints (TOC) functions because of the underlying principle that there are no conflicts in reality. This comes from the physical sciences, specifically physics, which has an underlying principle that there can be no contradictions in reality.

I know this is probably a difficult thing for most people to grasp, but I've found it to be very true. We see conflicts everywhere and often make compromises in order to deal with the conflicts. It requires deep critical thinking, but I've been able to resolve some incredibly limiting beliefs and come up with solutions that eliminate the conflicts.

So while I think it may be a pedantic point, I disagree. The false assumption is not the underlying symptom of the real conflict, but rather the conflict is an underlying symptom of the incorrect assumption. ymmv of course.

The conflict is within the human not with the human and "nature". Nature is perfect. The human is perfect.

I think we're trying to say the same thing. My point was not that this was helpful everytime you pick up a piece of paper that goes across your desk.

It has more to do (for me at least) with unmet goals. If I've been working toward accomplishing someething for several months, and I don't seem to be making progress toward it then it's time for me to examine my underlying assumptions and at least try to understand what the underlying cause and effect relationships are. If the goal is important enough, I will use the TOC thinking tools (of which the S&T tree I linked to above is one).

For most day to day stuff that crosses my desk, having outlined what my higher altitudes are is very helpful in determining how to process stuff. I just found that when I run into problems, getting a little more clarity is helpful and TOC provides a set of tools that helps in that regard.

The comment about "papers across the desk..." comment focuses on people who don't make a determination of what they'll do and what they don't. This notion seems to be foreign to some.

Other than the "papers..." comment, it would seem we are in agreement.