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tim99
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Yes. I agree that we each have to find our own comfort level. I have not found mine yet.kewms said:
Can you help me figure out if GTD works with my style?
- Thread starter Aspen
- Start date
tim99 said:
I believe that you should never have 50 NAs in any context, because it's not realistic to expect to get that much done in a single week. At weekly review time, you should decide which ones you won't do this week, and move those to your Someday/Maybe list. Then, on Monday morning, you sit at your desk, flip through more like 5-15 NAs, and pick the one that is the best match with your available time, energy level, and priorities/interests.
If you happen to finish all 15 NAs by, say, Wednesday, congratulations! Hooray! Look over your other NA lists and decide which context to switch to, or go to your project and/or Someday/Maybe list and find more stuff to do. Give yourself a longer list next week. But I'm willing to bet you won't have this problem very often.
Katherine
tim9 said:
I think he would say that shifting priorities and changes in energy and time available make it very difficult to maintain a coherent sorted order, and it's not worth it for most people. However, if you have 50 next actions in a single context, each on a single sheet of paper, it's going to take a long time to do anything with them. Are you sure your system is really meeting your needs? A single list on one page or two for each context is a lot easier and faster to review. If you insist on prioritizing, electronic is really a lot easier, so perhaps you should consider that option.
What works for me: I set priorities, but do not display them. This encourages me to look at my whole list, but tends to keep important things near the top. I do quite a few quick items as little breaks from larger tasks in the same context. This is extremely effective for me.
OK, now I'm very curious where you got the idea that you order your NAs during your weekly review!tim99 said:
The book is quite adamant:
"No more 'Daily To-Do' Lists. . .Such lists don't work, for two reasons. First, constant new input and shifting tactical priorities reconfigure daily work so consistently that it's virtually impossible to nail down to-do items ahead of time. . .Trying to keep a list in writing on the calendar, which must be rewritten on another day if items don't get done, is demoralizing and a waste of time. . .Second, if there's something on a daily to-do list that doesn't absolutely have to get done that day, it will dilute the emphasis on the things that truly do. . ."
"Priority -- Given the context you're in and the time and energy you have, the obvious next criterion for action choice is relative priority."
"Priority -- Given the context you're in and the time and energy you have, the obvious next criterion for action choice is relative priority."
This describes on-the-fly prioritization based on where you are now and how much time and energy you have right now. You can't know all that ahead of time during your weekly review.
The "next" in the term "next action" is in relationship to the project outcome, not to the previous action you just did. So, What's the next action you want to take to move a project forward? Not, What's the sequence of all my actions next week?
Still can't find the book...
I didn't want to order it because of how quickly we are leaving, but I have now checked with 4 stores and no one carries it. My husband said he'll check Books a Million tomorrow.
I downloaded some forms from the DIY site yesterday and at our week's review time tried to incorporate the "next action" idea into our lists of what has to get done. This week is obviously extra important as we leave out so quickly afterward and I do find listing "to dos" more realistically as projects has been helpful. I think my DH will benefit a lot from thinking this way because he really has a struggle trying to prioritize or organize his time at all--I'm not quite as sure about me, but I am sure I'll end up with some kind of hybrid system. I have so much to get done in a week that I use my big picture goals in each role to help me regulate what I'm willing to take on in addition. My Covey "compass cards" are a great help to me in planning and trying to balance my roles.
I do have one concern maybe someone can help with--and I understand actually reading the book should help with this--but I am looking to have less paperwork to deal with not increase it. I dont want 30 sheets of paper listing one project each in folders all over my life--is that what is advocated in this system? I listed one project this week as pre-vacation appointments, and then under that heading there were 6 seperate appointments to be made....most of them had more than one step involved (get the mechanics phone number from Dawn for example) which as I understand it "should" have made each of those things a project, but I like to look at one sheet and see everything I have to get done this week for our vacation. I just wrote in small print beneath each item what steps had to be done to complete that task. How am I looking at this system incorrectly?
I didn't want to order it because of how quickly we are leaving, but I have now checked with 4 stores and no one carries it. My husband said he'll check Books a Million tomorrow.
I downloaded some forms from the DIY site yesterday and at our week's review time tried to incorporate the "next action" idea into our lists of what has to get done. This week is obviously extra important as we leave out so quickly afterward and I do find listing "to dos" more realistically as projects has been helpful. I think my DH will benefit a lot from thinking this way because he really has a struggle trying to prioritize or organize his time at all--I'm not quite as sure about me, but I am sure I'll end up with some kind of hybrid system. I have so much to get done in a week that I use my big picture goals in each role to help me regulate what I'm willing to take on in addition. My Covey "compass cards" are a great help to me in planning and trying to balance my roles.
I do have one concern maybe someone can help with--and I understand actually reading the book should help with this--but I am looking to have less paperwork to deal with not increase it. I dont want 30 sheets of paper listing one project each in folders all over my life--is that what is advocated in this system? I listed one project this week as pre-vacation appointments, and then under that heading there were 6 seperate appointments to be made....most of them had more than one step involved (get the mechanics phone number from Dawn for example) which as I understand it "should" have made each of those things a project, but I like to look at one sheet and see everything I have to get done this week for our vacation. I just wrote in small print beneath each item what steps had to be done to complete that task. How am I looking at this system incorrectly?
Definitely the former. You pick your action when you're ready to act. I base this answer on the book as I described in my previous post, and I'm assuming there's no second edition recommending something different.tim99 said:
And since GTD says not to order your actions in advance, then you gain nothing with the separate sheets of paper. Choosing among your actions on the fly, as recommended by GTD, will always take more time to sift through separate sheets than to scan a list of items. Every time.
I've read all your posts, and yup, I think it is.tim99 said:
I think anyone would struggle with 1) keeping a current inventory of every multi-step project (GTD), 2) keeping a current inventory of every single next action (GTD), and 3) determining the order of all of them during a weekly review!
I saw earlier that you were trying to order all your actions ahead of time, but I assumed that you were adding that as your own personal preference. I didn't realize you saw it as a requirement of GTD. GTD leans more toward prohibiting it as opposed to requiring it.
Aspen said:
Wow! I live in a major midwestern city, and Borders shows the paperback in stock in 4 of 6 stores within 25 miles of my home. It is not a rare, hard-to-find book by any means.
I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice. If you will be travelling by air, there is a fairly good chance that the GTD book is in stock at an airport bookstore you will pass by. If you see it, buy it and read it. If not, get it when you return home. GTD is best implemented in the middle of life as you lead it, anyway.
It's important to understand that GTD is rather neutral on how it is implemented. Basically, you have
Calendar: for scheduled events, due date, "hard" stuff
Project List(s): Things to get done with more than 1 next action
Next Action Lists: the next physical actions needed, usually for projects
Project Support Materials: project plans, information, et cetera
Stuff comes in, and can be unambiguously placed in one of these four categories, or it is reference material to be filed, or it is trash. GTD gives you an algorithm for processing stuff into categories. Don't put stuff where it doesn't belong. You don't want long lists of stuff that need to be copied from day to day on your calendar so you can feel bad that you didn't do it. During the day, your calendar places the strongest constraints on you. Discretionary time is devoted to a) doing work as it shows up b) doing predefined work c) defining what your work is. If you can, record a next action for a project when you stop working on it, to get you going when you start up again. The weekly review tidies everything up, and ensures all the projects are moving with doable next actions. David also highly recommends checklists for things like packing for trips, parties, et cetera. I have undoubtedly left out some important things, but that is a bare-bones description. No magic. But if followed with diligence, it turns just about every day into a pretty good day.
If you want to see what a working GTD system looks like, the $10 Outlook white paper will give you an example, and can be downloaded immediately. I paid more at the time, and found it valuable, even though I was not using Outlook at the time. Also you can download the free pdf's on setting up a paper system and a palm system.
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tim99
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KA BOOM again. This is good stuff also.andersons said:
Maybe I got off track when reading here about LifeBalance. I am working on making context folders tonight. But tomorrow is Wednesday...how will I know what to do without a "Wednesday" folder? Oh noooo Mr. Billlllllll.andersons said:
tim99.
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fossicker
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Aspen said:
Very little is correct or incorrect in GTD, different things work for different people.
The goal of GTD is that you come up with a system that you can trust completely. With a trusted system, you don't need to store anything in your head because you have recorded everything, in a place where you can find it when you find yourself in the right time and place to take action.
The system you describe strays from the ideal in that your one sheet has many items to do on it that are impossible for you to do at a given time or place. some you can't do until the preceding tasks have been completed. some have to wait until you are near a phone, or near a computer. You have to read through the entire list to see what it is that you can do at a given moment. The idea is to do this kind of processing in advance, so when you are ready to act you know exactly what to do.
If you're getting ready to go on vacation, chances are many of your activities will be at home, out doing errands, or on the phone (if you have a cell phone, the phone can be a separate "context" so you can, for example, make a call or two while you're getting an oil change). It's fine to put all of these on one sheet of paper, as long as they are grouped together by context, so you don't have to read "get luggage out of attic" when you're at the shopping mall.
Ah -- LifeBalance is another story! The outcome should be the same whether you use LifeBalance or paper: usable context-based NA lists from which you can easily choose actions on the fly. But there's a big difference between the specific habits you need when using paper versus LB. Paper lists must be suitably short and focused.tim99 said:
GTD does not want to require specific software; and it's impractical to prioritize all your actions yourself (as you have found - right?); so GTD tells you not to prioritize all of them. Picking one intuitively at a given time should be easier than ordering them all in advance. Therefore, with paper, your lists must be short enough on Wednesday that you can intuitively decide what to do. So with paper I would have moved many of my actions to a Someday/Maybe list (basically the ones that are at the bottom of my LB list now). I would have figured that out during last week's weekly review, broadly prioritizing my projects and their actions into 2 categories: 1) next week ("active"), and 2) after next week (Someday/Maybe). If you are faithful with these decisions during frequent reviews, your on-the-fly which-action decisions will get easier.
But it's a different set of habits than with LB; useful action lists are achieved in a different way. With LB, I don't figure out exactly what's this week and what's Someday/Maybe. I let the prioritization model put the high-priority stuff at the top of the list, so I don't care how long it is; I can easily see what I want to do now near the top. Essentially, I have a long continuous priority ordering instead of a binary cutoff at some point. The advantage is that it's more flexible; I don't have to decide exactly what's next week and what's after that. I tend to keep the future on my radar more. I don't have to move things from Someday/Maybe to active; they rise to the top. I sometimes do lower-priority items further down because I have the perfect opportunity to do them, while I might have forgotten them had I not seen them right then. And I cut down my review time. But the disadvantage is that I could be less focused on or committed to exactly what I want to do this week. And there's a bit of a learning curve to LB.
BTW, you are not the first one to ask "How will I know what to do?" There must be 500 threads here about this.
My advice about ordering in the ListPro/LB/MLO thread on the Gear forum does not apply to paper at all. Those are specific habits for LB/MLO only. And my advice in your paper implementation thread on this forum does not apply to LB/MLO. Maybe we can continue discussion about those different implementations in those other threads so as not to mix things up too much in this one.
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tim99
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Yes. In this thread two posters basically said "read the book at it will all be clear to you". Well, I just do not believe that completelly. The problems that I am having I see other people having also. And all of us claim to have read the book.andersons said:
tim99.
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tim99
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Yes...but I think it is too late.andersons said:My advice about ordering in the ListPro/LB/MLO thread on the Gear forum does not apply to paper at all. Those are specific habits for LB/MLO only. And my advice in your paper implementation thread on this forum does not apply to LB/MLO. Maybe we can continue discussion about those different implementations in those other threads so as not to mix things up too much in this one.
tim99.
TesTeq
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What to do in micro- (GTD) and macroscale.
In his book DA discusses this problem (Natural Planning Model and 10k..50k levels).
GTD tells you what to do in a given moment (in microscale of minutes and hours) but first you must define what to do (what is the successful outcome) in the long term (in macroscale of days/weeks/months/years).tim99 said:
In his book DA discusses this problem (Natural Planning Model and 10k..50k levels).
TesTeq
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Original GTD workflow found.
Just found it in English at http://www.davidco.com/pdfs/tt_workflow_chart.pdf.TesTeq said:
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tim99
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Tes, if the above post was meant as some sort of comment to me, I did not get it.
I
izzy
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Hi Aspen!
I started with GTD a couple of weeks ago and find it really suits me. I'm just doing the basics at the moment, even though, I see a great improvement in my efficiency.
I have a set of shelves in my home office. On the top shelf I've got two in trays: the top one is "stuff" which I just chuck in as it comes to hand or comes to mind. This "stuff" gets be sorted through every Saturday morning (that's when the weekly bank balance comes in, so it's a good time to check "stuff" like bills that should have been paid).
If there's anything that can be dealt with immediately on Saturday, it comes out of the top tray and gets dealt with immediately. David says, "If you can get it done in two minutes, then do it."
Other "stuff" goes in to the next in tray down. This is the one for long-term projects, i.e. putting all these photos of the grandchildren into an album.
Nothing goes back into the top in tray. That's important. There's nothing left over, hanging around in that in tray and making me feel inadequate
On the shelves underneath I have folders and papers related to the projects I'm working on, e.g. two big editing jobs and three writing jobs; moving house next year ...
I also have my appointment calendar, the kitchen calendar and my tickler (you'll find out about that beautiful thing when you read the book
). The appointment calendar is ONLY for my appointments; the kitchen calendar is appointments for both myself and my husband (so we don't make dinner dates or whatever on days when the other one has to be in a different town); the tickler is for GTD actions on a specific day.
As I said, I'm new at the game and think I may not be going 100% by the book. What counts, though, is that what I'm doing works for me. And that's how it'll work out for you, too, Aspen. Get the book and try out and adapt the first few steps to your life-style and needs. Have fun!
I started with GTD a couple of weeks ago and find it really suits me. I'm just doing the basics at the moment, even though, I see a great improvement in my efficiency.
I have a set of shelves in my home office. On the top shelf I've got two in trays: the top one is "stuff" which I just chuck in as it comes to hand or comes to mind. This "stuff" gets be sorted through every Saturday morning (that's when the weekly bank balance comes in, so it's a good time to check "stuff" like bills that should have been paid).
If there's anything that can be dealt with immediately on Saturday, it comes out of the top tray and gets dealt with immediately. David says, "If you can get it done in two minutes, then do it."
Other "stuff" goes in to the next in tray down. This is the one for long-term projects, i.e. putting all these photos of the grandchildren into an album.
Nothing goes back into the top in tray. That's important. There's nothing left over, hanging around in that in tray and making me feel inadequate
On the shelves underneath I have folders and papers related to the projects I'm working on, e.g. two big editing jobs and three writing jobs; moving house next year ...
I also have my appointment calendar, the kitchen calendar and my tickler (you'll find out about that beautiful thing when you read the book
). The appointment calendar is ONLY for my appointments; the kitchen calendar is appointments for both myself and my husband (so we don't make dinner dates or whatever on days when the other one has to be in a different town); the tickler is for GTD actions on a specific day.As I said, I'm new at the game and think I may not be going 100% by the book. What counts, though, is that what I'm doing works for me. And that's how it'll work out for you, too, Aspen. Get the book and try out and adapt the first few steps to your life-style and needs. Have fun!
Now, now! I don't see that at all! We were all saying the same thing. And we didn't know exactly where you were coming from at first.tim99 said:
And we were all encouraging Aspen to read the book because we've all learned a lot of helpful things from it! You told her to read the book, too.
And no, you're not alone with the general problem you've been having. The priority question is extremely common, probably a Top 2 FAQ. Honestly, the book does not discuss it much. That's probably why it's such a FAQ. And that's why this forum can be a valuable resource. Many strategies have emerged since the book was first published.
You are unique, though, in my experience, in even attempting to prioritize 150 actions during a weekly review. I haven't seen that specific difficulty before. If I had thought GTD absolutely required that kind of labor, I would have tossed it in the trash immediately. I guess I'm much lazier than you are. ;-)