C
CosmoGTD
Guest
I had the idea to make a thread about procrastination.
H
helenjc
Guest
My first one is my @calls list
Great idea coz let's all help eachother out!!
My first of possibly a few is my @calls list. I've started to wonder if it's not a 'mini phobia' but I'm not sure.
My list will start off small and will be very action specific with who i need to speak with, what about and what the number is. The problem is that even if it's a simple one like making a hairdressing/doctor's appointment I will balk at it. I will just look at it and go , no not now. I will even do the same with calling a friend just to say hello (an important one as far as my higher level 'views' are concerned in terms of maintaining or nurturing good relationships with friends and family). So you can imagine of course if there are any 'hairy' ones like 'call tax department to ask for extension regarding business activity statement' well that's just way too scary!!
What I do then is let them get 'stale'. I will look at them at my weekly review and feel strange and do a big fat 'avoid'. Once they are way older than they should be I stop even looking at the calls list and therefore don't even add anything to it!!! Big breakdown in the system huh!
What shifts it? The extreme urgency thing where I absolutely HAVE to do them - so I will pick at the most urgent with my eyes shut almost.
The only other thing that shifts it is a major energy shift where I feel like as DA talks about on the GTD Fast cd's I'm captain of my ship because I've started to clean the refrigerator 'by default' and suddenly done the whole thing.
I tried to analyse 'what I was afraid of'.... I mean really is the hairdresser going to say 'no i dont want to cut your hair?' .... so therefore I"m silly I should do those silly simple no brainer ones first.... then get the energy from those to do the more serious ones involving a degree of professionalism but maybe that's the whole point. My 'mind' won't let me do those simple ones because then only the big scaries will be left!!
Go figure... Any tricks or sympathetic nods gratefully accepted!!
Great idea coz let's all help eachother out!!
My first of possibly a few is my @calls list. I've started to wonder if it's not a 'mini phobia' but I'm not sure.
My list will start off small and will be very action specific with who i need to speak with, what about and what the number is. The problem is that even if it's a simple one like making a hairdressing/doctor's appointment I will balk at it. I will just look at it and go , no not now. I will even do the same with calling a friend just to say hello (an important one as far as my higher level 'views' are concerned in terms of maintaining or nurturing good relationships with friends and family). So you can imagine of course if there are any 'hairy' ones like 'call tax department to ask for extension regarding business activity statement' well that's just way too scary!!
What I do then is let them get 'stale'. I will look at them at my weekly review and feel strange and do a big fat 'avoid'. Once they are way older than they should be I stop even looking at the calls list and therefore don't even add anything to it!!! Big breakdown in the system huh!
What shifts it? The extreme urgency thing where I absolutely HAVE to do them - so I will pick at the most urgent with my eyes shut almost.
The only other thing that shifts it is a major energy shift where I feel like as DA talks about on the GTD Fast cd's I'm captain of my ship because I've started to clean the refrigerator 'by default' and suddenly done the whole thing.
I tried to analyse 'what I was afraid of'.... I mean really is the hairdresser going to say 'no i dont want to cut your hair?' .... so therefore I"m silly I should do those silly simple no brainer ones first.... then get the energy from those to do the more serious ones involving a degree of professionalism but maybe that's the whole point. My 'mind' won't let me do those simple ones because then only the big scaries will be left!!
Go figure... Any tricks or sympathetic nods gratefully accepted!!
I was tempted to say you don't have a problem because speaking in the phone is something you don't like to do, therefore why not defer it so that you can do something more interesting and productive in the meantime.
Of course, now that my GTD training just kicked in, I realised how wrong this is. The phone action is something that won't go away, it needs to be done- otherwise it wouldn't be on your NA list. And putting off stuff for no good reason until it becomes urgent is one of the major GTD sins!
Also, even though you don't want to use the phone, the things that result from using the phone are things that you definitely want to do.
Most importantly you have recognised that this is something which you don't like about yourself and it is constantly preying on your mind. So... why not get it off your mind and start a new Project called "Cure Phone Phobia"!
I have some personal experience of phobias and found desensitisation (you do the thing you don't like on purpose and build it up gradually) and also hypnosis/ relaxation useful. The main thing is accept there's a problem and accept there will be pain in overcoming it.
There are lots of resources out there but may I recommend the following online book (it's free) for starters. Chapter 5 deals with anxiety problems.
http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/
Of course, now that my GTD training just kicked in, I realised how wrong this is. The phone action is something that won't go away, it needs to be done- otherwise it wouldn't be on your NA list. And putting off stuff for no good reason until it becomes urgent is one of the major GTD sins!
Also, even though you don't want to use the phone, the things that result from using the phone are things that you definitely want to do.
Most importantly you have recognised that this is something which you don't like about yourself and it is constantly preying on your mind. So... why not get it off your mind and start a new Project called "Cure Phone Phobia"!
I have some personal experience of phobias and found desensitisation (you do the thing you don't like on purpose and build it up gradually) and also hypnosis/ relaxation useful. The main thing is accept there's a problem and accept there will be pain in overcoming it.
There are lots of resources out there but may I recommend the following online book (it's free) for starters. Chapter 5 deals with anxiety problems.
http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/
T
Tornado
Guest
Put @calls on calendar
helenjc,
When I have resistance to an entire area of work, I frequently find that it is helpful to schedule an appointment with myself to do only that. It is basically just a way of tricking myself into not wandering off into other less alarming tasks. If "@calls" is on my calendar from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM, I know that I am only supposed to be working on that, and I will sit down, put on my headset and start dialing my way down the list. A side benefit of this method is that I usually get through the list in much less time than I predict it will take, and if it does take the entire time, then at least I know that I can quit at the end of the time I've set aside without breaking an agreement with myself.
Side Note: A headset for the telephone, by the way, is an incredibly helpful piece of gear when you are making calls. You can write, type or dial without juggling the handset or getting a kink in your neck. It really makes the experience more fun and more productive.
Tornado
helenjc,
When I have resistance to an entire area of work, I frequently find that it is helpful to schedule an appointment with myself to do only that. It is basically just a way of tricking myself into not wandering off into other less alarming tasks. If "@calls" is on my calendar from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM, I know that I am only supposed to be working on that, and I will sit down, put on my headset and start dialing my way down the list. A side benefit of this method is that I usually get through the list in much less time than I predict it will take, and if it does take the entire time, then at least I know that I can quit at the end of the time I've set aside without breaking an agreement with myself.
Side Note: A headset for the telephone, by the way, is an incredibly helpful piece of gear when you are making calls. You can write, type or dial without juggling the handset or getting a kink in your neck. It really makes the experience more fun and more productive.
Tornado
A few thoughts come to mind
1. Is the task still too big? Do you need to break it down further? For instance. Have you got the number to hand? Do you have a clear idea of when you want to go? When is the best time to ring?
2. Are you not that bothered by the outcome? Or fearful of a poor outcome? Will you come out of the hairdresser's beautifully coifurred and ready to take on the world? Or will it be a case of waiting for it to grow back and hoping that nobody notices in the interim?
3. Perhaps as you allude to being able to worry about not doing the small issues allows you to not worry about the big issues. Or does it? Does it really save you worrying about the big issues or just give you more to worry about?
4. Is it a commitment issue? Do you prefer your time to be totally flexible and so resent structure? If this really is an ordeal try scheduling something you really want to do immediately after as a reward. Go for a drink, to the cinema or something else that you keep promising yourself you will do.
Take care not just to jump on one method of sorting your problem because you will find different issues have different solutions and some times a cocktail is needed.
Hope this helps. It certainly was cathartic for me as a reminder of the tools I have at my disposal for mastering my own issues.
1. Is the task still too big? Do you need to break it down further? For instance. Have you got the number to hand? Do you have a clear idea of when you want to go? When is the best time to ring?
2. Are you not that bothered by the outcome? Or fearful of a poor outcome? Will you come out of the hairdresser's beautifully coifurred and ready to take on the world? Or will it be a case of waiting for it to grow back and hoping that nobody notices in the interim?
3. Perhaps as you allude to being able to worry about not doing the small issues allows you to not worry about the big issues. Or does it? Does it really save you worrying about the big issues or just give you more to worry about?
4. Is it a commitment issue? Do you prefer your time to be totally flexible and so resent structure? If this really is an ordeal try scheduling something you really want to do immediately after as a reward. Go for a drink, to the cinema or something else that you keep promising yourself you will do.
Take care not just to jump on one method of sorting your problem because you will find different issues have different solutions and some times a cocktail is needed.
Hope this helps. It certainly was cathartic for me as a reminder of the tools I have at my disposal for mastering my own issues.
monkeyjava
Registered
ugh, the phone!
helenjc, I know how you feel. I've struggled for years with an irrational fear of the telephone. I'm not completely sure why talking on the phone intimidates me so much, but I know it's holding me back.
I think part of it is that I feel terribly self-consious on the phone, both to the person on the other end and anyone who may overhear. I think I come across well in person and in writing, but I feel like I'm missing something when it comes to the phone converstation. It always seems awkward and embarassing. On the plus side, making the actual call seldom turns out to be as bad as I had imagined it.
My other major procrastination roadblock has more to do with my mood than the task at hand. There are times when my energy is low and my mood is bleak and I just don't want to deal with work. I know there is the reward of that feeling of accomplishment, but sometimes that just isn't enough. It would feel a lot better not having to do the task at all. I'm hoping that working on my higher elevations will help me totally eliminate some things I don't like to do, (with some major life changes) or help me realize that the reward for completion is much greater than I realized.
helenjc, I know how you feel. I've struggled for years with an irrational fear of the telephone. I'm not completely sure why talking on the phone intimidates me so much, but I know it's holding me back.
I think part of it is that I feel terribly self-consious on the phone, both to the person on the other end and anyone who may overhear. I think I come across well in person and in writing, but I feel like I'm missing something when it comes to the phone converstation. It always seems awkward and embarassing. On the plus side, making the actual call seldom turns out to be as bad as I had imagined it.
My other major procrastination roadblock has more to do with my mood than the task at hand. There are times when my energy is low and my mood is bleak and I just don't want to deal with work. I know there is the reward of that feeling of accomplishment, but sometimes that just isn't enough. It would feel a lot better not having to do the task at all. I'm hoping that working on my higher elevations will help me totally eliminate some things I don't like to do, (with some major life changes) or help me realize that the reward for completion is much greater than I realized.
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
Hi helenjc, first off let me say thanks for being so HONEST and posting this. I know that probably most folks who "do GTD" have some type of area that is not working the way they would like it to. Its just human nature. Its very important to be totally honest about this, and admit it, and to not beat ourselves up about it at all.
If there are others with procrastination problems, please share with us what is happening, as I think this is valuable info. I bet if David Allen did a survey, he would find that the majority of GTD folks, after the initial "buzz" of GTD wears off, slide back into "old patterns" Its just human nature, and it can be dealt with.
That being said, it could be that you have a mini Social Phobia, or Social Anxiety. Why do I say this? Because you are not only avoiding scary-hairy calls to the taxman, but also innocuous calls.
A way to test what is going on, is to sit down, open your @calls list, and then pick up the phone and start dialing. As you do this OBSERVE your emotional reactions. If you start getting nervous, panicked, or your heart starts beating faster, etc, then you likely have some type of Social Anxiety, or maybe even a "panic" type of disorder. There is no "rationality" to these types of things. That is why a phobia is a phobia! Its an irrational fear. Sometimes the brain just wires things up funny. Maybe you had some difficult calls in the past, and your brain learned that making tough calls can be very PAINFUL, so it tries to avoid that. This then can get generalized to making calls in general, and then the "phone" can literally trigger anxiety and avoidance.
Its interesting, if you do have a mini social phobia over the phone, then just rewording the task like GTD says is NOT going to work. If it really is a social anxiety pattern, it takes more detailed work than that. Many folks who have never experienced things of this nature do not understand them, and as far as I can see, David Allen left all that stuff out of GTD, as it probably becomes too "psychological" and is not a direction he wanted to go with GTD, for various reasons.
There are a few ways to deal with this. The first is to elicit the THOUGHTS that flash through your mind when you pick up the phone to make a call. Once you elicit those thoughts, you can then modify them. (this is covered in a book called the Anxiety and Phobia Workbook, 4th Edition, by Bourne).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572244135/102-9353852-7829716?v=glance&n=283155
But what works best is Behavioral Exposure.
What I would suggest, its to put your phone calls in a hierarchy in your list, from easiest to hairiest. Then you select a SPECIFIC TIME to make these calls, and according to a SCHEDULE, you work your way from the easiest to the scariest, over a period of days or weeks. Depending on how serious the anxiety is, you could either make one "scary" call a day at a specific time, or you could make 20 calls in a 1 hour period, if its not too bad.
If this type of thing doesn't work, then you could try a Buddy System, and get a friend who is non-shaming who has some psychological insight, to help you. You could book an appointment with them, and then have them encourage you to make the calls in their presence, and work through it.
Often, just doing this type of thing is enough.
Sometimes it isn't.
But basically, you have to break EACH CALL down to a discrete action, and then PUSH yourself to make each call, one at a time, over and over. Over time, the resistance will diminish.
BUT, the resistance can easily come back in the future, and then you just have to do it all over again!
You could also do something like decide to make ONE of these calls each day, maybe at 10am, or something. You could post your intent to make the call in this thread, and then check back the next day and state if you made the call or not.
Its important to NOT beat yourself up if you don't do it. This makes it worse.
But if you PUSH yourself to make the easy calls, and work your way up to the "scarier" calls, over time the anxiety will diminish. But not totally.
Calling the taxman is going to make most folks anxious. BUT, we can still make the call, even though we feel anxious about it.
The key is to set a plan, put it on the calendar, and then follow-up.
If none if this works, then getting a psychologist to do some Behavior Therapy can work AMAZINGLY. A behavior therapist doesn't ask you about your toilet training, but you will literally make those calls from his office! Something to think about.
Again, some of what I am saying goes against what David Allen says in GTD. But in my view, DA does not really deal with problems some folks might have with things like a phobia, or mini-phobia, or social anxiety, and things of that nature. When you have those types of challenges, they have to go on your Calendar at a specific time, and then use various psychological worksheets, etc, to deal with them.
If we put them on a list somewhere, then the brain likes this, as it can refuse to look at the list and pretend it doesn't exist!!
But again, what is key is to specifically define each call, and do them ONE at a time, perhaps using the Buddy System for a while, if you have to.
Just a few thoughts....please let us know what you decide to do, and try, and follow-up in the forum. The "social pressure" of posting in the forum might be enough to deal with it!
If there are others with procrastination problems, please share with us what is happening, as I think this is valuable info. I bet if David Allen did a survey, he would find that the majority of GTD folks, after the initial "buzz" of GTD wears off, slide back into "old patterns" Its just human nature, and it can be dealt with.
That being said, it could be that you have a mini Social Phobia, or Social Anxiety. Why do I say this? Because you are not only avoiding scary-hairy calls to the taxman, but also innocuous calls.
A way to test what is going on, is to sit down, open your @calls list, and then pick up the phone and start dialing. As you do this OBSERVE your emotional reactions. If you start getting nervous, panicked, or your heart starts beating faster, etc, then you likely have some type of Social Anxiety, or maybe even a "panic" type of disorder. There is no "rationality" to these types of things. That is why a phobia is a phobia! Its an irrational fear. Sometimes the brain just wires things up funny. Maybe you had some difficult calls in the past, and your brain learned that making tough calls can be very PAINFUL, so it tries to avoid that. This then can get generalized to making calls in general, and then the "phone" can literally trigger anxiety and avoidance.
Its interesting, if you do have a mini social phobia over the phone, then just rewording the task like GTD says is NOT going to work. If it really is a social anxiety pattern, it takes more detailed work than that. Many folks who have never experienced things of this nature do not understand them, and as far as I can see, David Allen left all that stuff out of GTD, as it probably becomes too "psychological" and is not a direction he wanted to go with GTD, for various reasons.
There are a few ways to deal with this. The first is to elicit the THOUGHTS that flash through your mind when you pick up the phone to make a call. Once you elicit those thoughts, you can then modify them. (this is covered in a book called the Anxiety and Phobia Workbook, 4th Edition, by Bourne).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572244135/102-9353852-7829716?v=glance&n=283155
But what works best is Behavioral Exposure.
What I would suggest, its to put your phone calls in a hierarchy in your list, from easiest to hairiest. Then you select a SPECIFIC TIME to make these calls, and according to a SCHEDULE, you work your way from the easiest to the scariest, over a period of days or weeks. Depending on how serious the anxiety is, you could either make one "scary" call a day at a specific time, or you could make 20 calls in a 1 hour period, if its not too bad.
If this type of thing doesn't work, then you could try a Buddy System, and get a friend who is non-shaming who has some psychological insight, to help you. You could book an appointment with them, and then have them encourage you to make the calls in their presence, and work through it.
Often, just doing this type of thing is enough.
Sometimes it isn't.
But basically, you have to break EACH CALL down to a discrete action, and then PUSH yourself to make each call, one at a time, over and over. Over time, the resistance will diminish.
BUT, the resistance can easily come back in the future, and then you just have to do it all over again!
You could also do something like decide to make ONE of these calls each day, maybe at 10am, or something. You could post your intent to make the call in this thread, and then check back the next day and state if you made the call or not.
Its important to NOT beat yourself up if you don't do it. This makes it worse.
But if you PUSH yourself to make the easy calls, and work your way up to the "scarier" calls, over time the anxiety will diminish. But not totally.
Calling the taxman is going to make most folks anxious. BUT, we can still make the call, even though we feel anxious about it.
The key is to set a plan, put it on the calendar, and then follow-up.
If none if this works, then getting a psychologist to do some Behavior Therapy can work AMAZINGLY. A behavior therapist doesn't ask you about your toilet training, but you will literally make those calls from his office! Something to think about.
Again, some of what I am saying goes against what David Allen says in GTD. But in my view, DA does not really deal with problems some folks might have with things like a phobia, or mini-phobia, or social anxiety, and things of that nature. When you have those types of challenges, they have to go on your Calendar at a specific time, and then use various psychological worksheets, etc, to deal with them.
If we put them on a list somewhere, then the brain likes this, as it can refuse to look at the list and pretend it doesn't exist!!
But again, what is key is to specifically define each call, and do them ONE at a time, perhaps using the Buddy System for a while, if you have to.
Just a few thoughts....please let us know what you decide to do, and try, and follow-up in the forum. The "social pressure" of posting in the forum might be enough to deal with it!
helenjc said:
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
Hi there, I think this also points to some Social Anxiety.
If its something you have struggled for years with, you might consider getting some treatment for it, perhaps. I hate to sound like a broken record, but something like Cognitive-Behavior Therapy might work wonders. (avoid other types of therapy for this type of thing, as it will most likely make it much worse).
Who knows, maybe just making dozens of calls in a Behavior Therapists office, might start to modify this. What might be happening, is that you are "evaluating" yourself while you are on the phone.
Its like people who have Social Anxiety, evaluate themselves when they are at a party, and thus get nervous. What they need to do is to learn to focus on OTHERS, and take their focus off themselves.
So again, if its something that has been going on for years, it will take some work to deal with it. In my opinion, Behavioral Repetition works the best, as your brain can learn new patterns, and you will find that is "not as bad as you thought". This would come down to making ONE call at a time, and working through it, over and over, until the pattern starts to change, using Scheduling, Follow-ups, and a Buddy System.
I wonder if there is something called "Phone Fright" which might be similar to "Stage Fright". I bet there is, and that lots of people have to deal with this.
Anyway, just a few of my thoughts.
If its something you have struggled for years with, you might consider getting some treatment for it, perhaps. I hate to sound like a broken record, but something like Cognitive-Behavior Therapy might work wonders. (avoid other types of therapy for this type of thing, as it will most likely make it much worse).
Who knows, maybe just making dozens of calls in a Behavior Therapists office, might start to modify this. What might be happening, is that you are "evaluating" yourself while you are on the phone.
Its like people who have Social Anxiety, evaluate themselves when they are at a party, and thus get nervous. What they need to do is to learn to focus on OTHERS, and take their focus off themselves.
So again, if its something that has been going on for years, it will take some work to deal with it. In my opinion, Behavioral Repetition works the best, as your brain can learn new patterns, and you will find that is "not as bad as you thought". This would come down to making ONE call at a time, and working through it, over and over, until the pattern starts to change, using Scheduling, Follow-ups, and a Buddy System.
I wonder if there is something called "Phone Fright" which might be similar to "Stage Fright". I bet there is, and that lots of people have to deal with this.
Anyway, just a few of my thoughts.
monkeyjava said:
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
I did a little searching, and there is no question that there is such a thing as Telephone Phobia, even called Telephonophobia.
Of course, that is much more serious than the examples in this thread, but what is interesting is the way to deal with these things, is not much different where they are on the continuum, from very mild, to crippling.
Certainly there is Telephone Anxiety, and many of us feel this, to a greater or lesser degree, at various times. This is connected to social anxiety, fear of rejection, and all of that fun stuff we all experience.
Again, in my view, the best way to deal with this stuff is Behavior Therapy, which comes down to pushing ourselves to DO the Next Action we have defined.
I found a couple of links, that are not exactly what we are talking about here, but are somewhat related.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205561.html
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9475.html
Of course, that is much more serious than the examples in this thread, but what is interesting is the way to deal with these things, is not much different where they are on the continuum, from very mild, to crippling.
Certainly there is Telephone Anxiety, and many of us feel this, to a greater or lesser degree, at various times. This is connected to social anxiety, fear of rejection, and all of that fun stuff we all experience.
Again, in my view, the best way to deal with this stuff is Behavior Therapy, which comes down to pushing ourselves to DO the Next Action we have defined.
I found a couple of links, that are not exactly what we are talking about here, but are somewhat related.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205561.html
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9475.html
Stand up and speak loud
Consider standing up when you are making calls. If you are reluctant to speak on the phone, your voice may sound weak, and others may sense this and intimidate you. When you are standing your voice will be louder and more assertive.
Consider a script for each phone call. If you know what you want to say, you can often barrel through a conversation.
The headset's a good idea.
Any trick that can make you feel as if you are in control of the situation will help you with this.
Good Luck!
Consider standing up when you are making calls. If you are reluctant to speak on the phone, your voice may sound weak, and others may sense this and intimidate you. When you are standing your voice will be louder and more assertive.
Consider a script for each phone call. If you know what you want to say, you can often barrel through a conversation.
The headset's a good idea.
Any trick that can make you feel as if you are in control of the situation will help you with this.
Good Luck!
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
An expert I know in REBT, (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy http://www.rational.org.nz/prof/docs/intro-rebt.htm ) told me this.
He said he had trained himself so that the INSTANT he started to feel resistance or avoidance, he IMMEDIATELY DID what he felt like avoiding.
For him, they were things like writing reports to insurance companies, and pain in the ass stuff like that.
So what he told me is that he never puts that stuff off anymore, at all.
The MOMENT he feels like putting it off, he PUSHES himself to do it RIGHT AWAY.
Notice how this is quite different from GTD, in a sense. GTD might say, put that Next Action on a list, and do it later, which in most cases would be fine.
But perhaps for problem areas, it would be wise to do it this way.
He told me that after doing this for a number of years, its become a new habit, and he no longer puts that kind of stuff off anymore. I believe what he was saying, as he was an extremely competent person, who always did exactly what he said he would do, usually within hours, even though he was a very busy person.
I think that is a cool idea.
The INSTANT we feel the "resistance" we PUSH ourselves to DO it RIGHT NOW.
I think after a while, our brain would learn that resistance is futile.
He said he had trained himself so that the INSTANT he started to feel resistance or avoidance, he IMMEDIATELY DID what he felt like avoiding.
For him, they were things like writing reports to insurance companies, and pain in the ass stuff like that.
So what he told me is that he never puts that stuff off anymore, at all.
The MOMENT he feels like putting it off, he PUSHES himself to do it RIGHT AWAY.
Notice how this is quite different from GTD, in a sense. GTD might say, put that Next Action on a list, and do it later, which in most cases would be fine.
But perhaps for problem areas, it would be wise to do it this way.
He told me that after doing this for a number of years, its become a new habit, and he no longer puts that kind of stuff off anymore. I believe what he was saying, as he was an extremely competent person, who always did exactly what he said he would do, usually within hours, even though he was a very busy person.
I think that is a cool idea.
The INSTANT we feel the "resistance" we PUSH ourselves to DO it RIGHT NOW.
I think after a while, our brain would learn that resistance is futile.
flexiblefine said:
S
sonia_simone
Guest
Very interesting posts! I hate hate hate talking on the phone. Just loathe.
My solution is to bribe myself (visits to forums, etc.), which more or less works. I will reread some of these posts, though, because I bet I can do a lot better.
My solution is to bribe myself (visits to forums, etc.), which more or less works. I will reread some of these posts, though, because I bet I can do a lot better.
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
Rewards-penalties
Rewards and Penalties work extremely well.
Once you set a target, if you meet that target of calls, then you REWARD yourself with something you really like doing, maybe a movie, etc.
But also, if you do NOT meet the target, the you set up a serious PENALTY. (not punishment, no shaming or self-berating!). A good penalty would be to make yourself do something you hate, like cleaning the toilet, if you hate that.
Or here is a really powerful one.
You give a close friend $10, or even $100, if its serious. Then if you do not give them actual PROOF that you have done X by the date and time you said, they either:
-give that money to a cause you despise
-burn the money right in front of you.
Yes, that's right. It has to be something that is VERY painful to you, like donating the money to the NRA if you hate guns, or donating the money to Michael Moore if you are a NeoCon, or just burning the money. (you can't give the money to homeless people or something, as that won't make you feel bad).
It sounds nutty, but try it once.
If you don't make the calls by the time you said, take out a $20 bill and BURN IT. This type of penalty has an amazing affect on your brain. Try it a few times, its a real eye opener. If its serious, you could try it with a $100 bill, and notice how well it works.
Rewards and Penalties work wonders.
Pain and Pleasure, this is what the brain understands.
When we AVOID, the brain is trying to avoid doing things it THINKS will lead to PAIN. This is how our brains evolved...to AVOID things you think might be a THREAT or painful.
Rewards and Penalties work extremely well.
Once you set a target, if you meet that target of calls, then you REWARD yourself with something you really like doing, maybe a movie, etc.
But also, if you do NOT meet the target, the you set up a serious PENALTY. (not punishment, no shaming or self-berating!). A good penalty would be to make yourself do something you hate, like cleaning the toilet, if you hate that.
Or here is a really powerful one.
You give a close friend $10, or even $100, if its serious. Then if you do not give them actual PROOF that you have done X by the date and time you said, they either:
-give that money to a cause you despise
-burn the money right in front of you.
Yes, that's right. It has to be something that is VERY painful to you, like donating the money to the NRA if you hate guns, or donating the money to Michael Moore if you are a NeoCon, or just burning the money. (you can't give the money to homeless people or something, as that won't make you feel bad).
It sounds nutty, but try it once.
If you don't make the calls by the time you said, take out a $20 bill and BURN IT. This type of penalty has an amazing affect on your brain. Try it a few times, its a real eye opener. If its serious, you could try it with a $100 bill, and notice how well it works.
Rewards and Penalties work wonders.
Pain and Pleasure, this is what the brain understands.
When we AVOID, the brain is trying to avoid doing things it THINKS will lead to PAIN. This is how our brains evolved...to AVOID things you think might be a THREAT or painful.
sonia_simone said:
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
well, I took some of my own advice, and was able to get moving on 2 very difficult personal, emotional Project-NA, which had been stuck for quite a while.
Both were personal documents, with some "heavy" and very difficult emotional content. That is what was making me avoid doing them.
-one was writing a personal document with difficult emotional content, with no real deadline, but its something that was really nagging on me. It went onto my @Computer list 6 months ago, and it just sat there, with no action taken.
-the other is much more complex, and involves revising a complex written document, with yet more "heavy" personal emotions involved. This has a deadline of only about 5 more days. I put this off so far for about a month.
What I did, was first go for a walk, to clear my mind.
Then I came back, and the objective was to use that momentum to just PUSH myself to dig right into these 2 things. I immediately felt the powerful avoidance coming up, and I felt like I "did not want to do it right now".
What was blocking me with this stuff, is that it involved some very difficult personal emotional stuff, that is quite unpleasant. So the brain naturally wants to just wants to avoid this type of stuff.
Anyway, I had set a specific time to do this stuff, and then I simply PUSHED myself to start on them, no matter how I felt. I just chose to override my feelings. I had to refocus several times, as I was tempted to do other things, and get distracted, or even watch TV!!!! So I almost did not get started.
My "reward" for getting this started was to come here and write about it.
The "penalty" for not doing it, would be to force myself to sit at an open document and stare at the $%*!# computer for 2 hours! No escape!
Anyway, I knocked off the first document in about 90 minutes of solid writing, and it needs one more session tomorrow night to edit it, and then its in the mail. that feels terrific.
The other one needs about 60 minutes of work each night for the next 5 days. That still makes me feel "dread" at this point, but TOO BAD, no matter what, I am going to "push" myself to work at it, at least one hour each night. Period. The only escape is if I really go for it, and maybe work longer and faster, I could get it over with sooner. But there is no escape.
Anyway, this template seems to work for me, usually, when I do it.
-Identify the specific Next Action and Project, that is not getting done
-Set a specific time on the Calendar to do it.
-block out ALL distractions, turn off the phone, lock the door, etc.
-then, I force-push myself to do it, no matter how I feel. This of course is the tough part, but I know of no other way to do it. (there are various techniques from CBT that can be used in this part, to help deal with this step).
-reward the self for getting it done, or invoke a penalty for not doing it as scheduled.
-follow-up on yourself, by using some type of outside check, in this case, I used this forum.
So again, I feel terrific having faced this stuff down, and got it seriously moving. I now feel very motivated to finish it off, and get it in the mail, and be done with it. Its the same old story, once you start something difficult, often the idea of finishing it becomes its own reward.
But not always.
Sometimes you just have to keep pushing yourself through it, even though you dislike it, or even hate doing it. That's life with a capital F, as they say.
I can't really see any other way of dealing with this type of thing.
In this case, what was blocking me was the personal and extremely difficult emotional content of the projects. It reminds me of something someone once said to me...
"If you can do THAT, you can do anything!!"
So I will use this thread as a leverage mechanism, to monitor the completion of these 2 very difficult emotional projects.
I have found that doing what I did here always works, when I work it.
Any questions/comments are appreciated.
Both were personal documents, with some "heavy" and very difficult emotional content. That is what was making me avoid doing them.
-one was writing a personal document with difficult emotional content, with no real deadline, but its something that was really nagging on me. It went onto my @Computer list 6 months ago, and it just sat there, with no action taken.
-the other is much more complex, and involves revising a complex written document, with yet more "heavy" personal emotions involved. This has a deadline of only about 5 more days. I put this off so far for about a month.
What I did, was first go for a walk, to clear my mind.
Then I came back, and the objective was to use that momentum to just PUSH myself to dig right into these 2 things. I immediately felt the powerful avoidance coming up, and I felt like I "did not want to do it right now".
What was blocking me with this stuff, is that it involved some very difficult personal emotional stuff, that is quite unpleasant. So the brain naturally wants to just wants to avoid this type of stuff.
Anyway, I had set a specific time to do this stuff, and then I simply PUSHED myself to start on them, no matter how I felt. I just chose to override my feelings. I had to refocus several times, as I was tempted to do other things, and get distracted, or even watch TV!!!! So I almost did not get started.
My "reward" for getting this started was to come here and write about it.
The "penalty" for not doing it, would be to force myself to sit at an open document and stare at the $%*!# computer for 2 hours! No escape!
Anyway, I knocked off the first document in about 90 minutes of solid writing, and it needs one more session tomorrow night to edit it, and then its in the mail.
that feels terrific.The other one needs about 60 minutes of work each night for the next 5 days. That still makes me feel "dread" at this point, but TOO BAD, no matter what, I am going to "push" myself to work at it, at least one hour each night. Period. The only escape is if I really go for it, and maybe work longer and faster, I could get it over with sooner. But there is no escape.
Anyway, this template seems to work for me, usually, when I do it.
-Identify the specific Next Action and Project, that is not getting done
-Set a specific time on the Calendar to do it.
-block out ALL distractions, turn off the phone, lock the door, etc.
-then, I force-push myself to do it, no matter how I feel. This of course is the tough part, but I know of no other way to do it. (there are various techniques from CBT that can be used in this part, to help deal with this step).
-reward the self for getting it done, or invoke a penalty for not doing it as scheduled.
-follow-up on yourself, by using some type of outside check, in this case, I used this forum.
So again, I feel terrific having faced this stuff down, and got it seriously moving. I now feel very motivated to finish it off, and get it in the mail, and be done with it. Its the same old story, once you start something difficult, often the idea of finishing it becomes its own reward.
But not always.
Sometimes you just have to keep pushing yourself through it, even though you dislike it, or even hate doing it. That's life with a capital F, as they say.
I can't really see any other way of dealing with this type of thing.
In this case, what was blocking me was the personal and extremely difficult emotional content of the projects. It reminds me of something someone once said to me...
"If you can do THAT, you can do anything!!"
So I will use this thread as a leverage mechanism, to monitor the completion of these 2 very difficult emotional projects.
I have found that doing what I did here always works, when I work it.
Any questions/comments are appreciated.
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
P-y-a
So I was able to follow through tonight and get one project completed, and its in the mail.
As usual, something that sat around for months, once it is DONE, it feels terrific. Even though you dread doing it, as soon as you are dropping it in the mail, you feel terrific, this happens basically every single time.
I was thinking about WHY this particular Project-NA sat around for such a long time. First, its because there were no real time constraints on it.
Also, because it involved difficult emotional content, which makes one avoid it.
But I also think its partly because the Next Action was not languaged correctly. I had it down as something like "write letter about X", which is actually more of a project.
Perhaps it would have helped if I would have broken the NA down to something more basic in this case like, "open Word doc for 30 min and brainstorm about project X".
That is much less threatening, as you don't think you have to FINISH the entire thing in one sitting.
So it is true that modifying how a NA is worded can help to get the NA into motion. Sometimes it does draw you forward.
But in my view, oftentimes it does not. The reason for this is that we still "interpret" the NA in our mind. So even if it is worded well, we can still think, "Oh God, I don't want to do that crud", and thus avoid it.
So for me anyway, I am going to permanently add a step to the GTD methodology. I find that I need it.
I think in this type of thing, all people are not created equal. I know some folks who just simply DO what's in front of them, and don't seem to have a big problem. Whereas some other folks have nothing but problems trying to get things done. And some other folks have certain areas where they have problems. They get most everything done at work, but their personal stuff is a total disaster, I have seen (dated) that!
But anyway, for me, I need that other step. That is, once the NA is properly defined as part of a project, and the NA is just sitting around and not getting done, then I need to pick it out of the pack, and schedule it.
Dr. Albert Ellis of REBT has a particular technical term for what I am proposing. He calls is PYA. (Push Your Ass)(he picked that to be funny, but also to make the point).
For me, for certain NA and Projects that are not getting done, I need to isolate them, schedule them, define them correctly, and then do some old-fashioned PYA in the scheduled moment.
This not only applies to things that fall behind, but Projects that one might WANT to get moving, but are not going anywhere.
I find some of the ones that don't move well are ones that involve potential RISK. Either a financial risk, or even an interpersonal risk that might involve "rejection" on a professional level. So a project with a financial risk attached, that could also "fail" or not work out, somehow manages to not get started. Convenient.
So anyway, to me this is the most important part of GTD, not just for procrastination, but for moving Projects forward that could carry some excellent benefits and cool stuff, yet involve risks and hassles.
So I THINK, the most "important" part of GTD, is the moment when we actually DO the NA.
As far as I can see, the most gigantic project like wanting to go into space, to cleaning the garage, build a dream house, cure cancer, to making babies, are ALL going to come down to the Very Next Physical Action that we actually DO, not that we plan or define.
I think this is why some folks who don't keep proper lists, but constantly DO things, can sometimes do very well. They are going to get a lot of hits, even by accident. Whereas some folks who are "super-organized" can be less productive sometimes, as they are over-planning, and not just cranking out those widget Next Actions.
The more I think about it, the more I see that the most important part of GTD, in my view, is that precise moment where we actually DO the Next Action, even if the NA is not perfectly defined.
Looking at the GTD flowchart, its going to come in in the DO IT area. Except that this is not for NA that take less than 2 minutes in the moment only.
This is for taking NA's from the Project and Context lists, and then DOING those, especially the ones that are gathering dust. I think the problem for me comes from getting the NA's from being DEFERED, to being DONE.
Sometimes we can DEFER things we want to AVOID, and then they magically somehow seem to not get done.
I am just thinking-out-loud here, but it might be useful to try and find some type of mechanism of DOING, for the NA's that get "stuck".
Again, I am just brainstorming here, but perhaps one could amplify the DO IT part of the GTD flowchart somehow. Maybe there could be a WEEKLY DO IT session, where you get all fired up, and specifically PUSH yourself to pick the "stuck" NA's from the lists, and then DO THEM RIGHT THEN?
I don't know, maybe its just me, but certain difficult projects and tasks don't "fall through the cracks" of GTD, but they collect dust on the lists, and somehow seem to not get done.
Anyway, I am going to think about this for a while, and see if something hits me. I know DA has covered most of this stuff, but maybe a scheduled WEEKLY DO IT session might be useful, along with the Weekly Review.
Or maybe a scheduled DAILY DO IT session of 15 minutes even. Maybe first thing each morning, or whenever, you pick ONE tough NA that is stuck, and you PUSH yourself to start DOING it, just to get it moving...
I don't know, I need to think about this.
If anyone has any insights, it would be appreciated.
I think DA could release a book with a top behavioral psychologist called "Getting 'Getting Things Done' Done".
So I was able to follow through tonight and get one project completed, and its in the mail.
As usual, something that sat around for months, once it is DONE, it feels terrific. Even though you dread doing it, as soon as you are dropping it in the mail, you feel terrific, this happens basically every single time.
I was thinking about WHY this particular Project-NA sat around for such a long time. First, its because there were no real time constraints on it.
Also, because it involved difficult emotional content, which makes one avoid it.
But I also think its partly because the Next Action was not languaged correctly. I had it down as something like "write letter about X", which is actually more of a project.
Perhaps it would have helped if I would have broken the NA down to something more basic in this case like, "open Word doc for 30 min and brainstorm about project X".
That is much less threatening, as you don't think you have to FINISH the entire thing in one sitting.
So it is true that modifying how a NA is worded can help to get the NA into motion. Sometimes it does draw you forward.
But in my view, oftentimes it does not. The reason for this is that we still "interpret" the NA in our mind. So even if it is worded well, we can still think, "Oh God, I don't want to do that crud", and thus avoid it.
So for me anyway, I am going to permanently add a step to the GTD methodology. I find that I need it.
I think in this type of thing, all people are not created equal. I know some folks who just simply DO what's in front of them, and don't seem to have a big problem. Whereas some other folks have nothing but problems trying to get things done. And some other folks have certain areas where they have problems. They get most everything done at work, but their personal stuff is a total disaster, I have seen (dated) that!
But anyway, for me, I need that other step. That is, once the NA is properly defined as part of a project, and the NA is just sitting around and not getting done, then I need to pick it out of the pack, and schedule it.
Dr. Albert Ellis of REBT has a particular technical term for what I am proposing. He calls is PYA. (Push Your Ass)(he picked that to be funny, but also to make the point).
For me, for certain NA and Projects that are not getting done, I need to isolate them, schedule them, define them correctly, and then do some old-fashioned PYA in the scheduled moment.
This not only applies to things that fall behind, but Projects that one might WANT to get moving, but are not going anywhere.
I find some of the ones that don't move well are ones that involve potential RISK. Either a financial risk, or even an interpersonal risk that might involve "rejection" on a professional level. So a project with a financial risk attached, that could also "fail" or not work out, somehow manages to not get started. Convenient.
So anyway, to me this is the most important part of GTD, not just for procrastination, but for moving Projects forward that could carry some excellent benefits and cool stuff, yet involve risks and hassles.
So I THINK, the most "important" part of GTD, is the moment when we actually DO the NA.
As far as I can see, the most gigantic project like wanting to go into space, to cleaning the garage, build a dream house, cure cancer, to making babies, are ALL going to come down to the Very Next Physical Action that we actually DO, not that we plan or define.
I think this is why some folks who don't keep proper lists, but constantly DO things, can sometimes do very well. They are going to get a lot of hits, even by accident. Whereas some folks who are "super-organized" can be less productive sometimes, as they are over-planning, and not just cranking out those widget Next Actions.
The more I think about it, the more I see that the most important part of GTD, in my view, is that precise moment where we actually DO the Next Action, even if the NA is not perfectly defined.
Looking at the GTD flowchart, its going to come in in the DO IT area. Except that this is not for NA that take less than 2 minutes in the moment only.
This is for taking NA's from the Project and Context lists, and then DOING those, especially the ones that are gathering dust. I think the problem for me comes from getting the NA's from being DEFERED, to being DONE.
Sometimes we can DEFER things we want to AVOID, and then they magically somehow seem to not get done.
I am just thinking-out-loud here, but it might be useful to try and find some type of mechanism of DOING, for the NA's that get "stuck".
Again, I am just brainstorming here, but perhaps one could amplify the DO IT part of the GTD flowchart somehow. Maybe there could be a WEEKLY DO IT session, where you get all fired up, and specifically PUSH yourself to pick the "stuck" NA's from the lists, and then DO THEM RIGHT THEN?
I don't know, maybe its just me, but certain difficult projects and tasks don't "fall through the cracks" of GTD, but they collect dust on the lists, and somehow seem to not get done.
Anyway, I am going to think about this for a while, and see if something hits me. I know DA has covered most of this stuff, but maybe a scheduled WEEKLY DO IT session might be useful, along with the Weekly Review.
Or maybe a scheduled DAILY DO IT session of 15 minutes even. Maybe first thing each morning, or whenever, you pick ONE tough NA that is stuck, and you PUSH yourself to start DOING it, just to get it moving...
I don't know, I need to think about this.
If anyone has any insights, it would be appreciated.
I think DA could release a book with a top behavioral psychologist called "Getting 'Getting Things Done' Done".
Helenjc, here is a sympathic nod. I suffer from the exact same "procrastination" problem. The funny thing is that although I will forever avoid calling to order a pizza I don't mind public speaking (I actually enjoy it).
One of the reasons that I became interested in GTD was because I thought it would help me overcome this problem to put calls into my weekly review list and deal with them as a task or project.
Unfortunately I think I may have to go to therapy for this problem. But I have isolated ONE major reason I don't like to make phone calls, it is because I don't like people to call me. Regardless of what I am doing I always feel interrupted when the phone rings, like some is intruding on my time. So, as a result when I make phone calls I feel like I am intruding upon someone else's time/life (this is only made worse when the person I call actually seems annoyed by the call).
This realization has helped me but it has not erradicated the problem. If anyone has a magic solution, that would be very welcome.
Shannon
One of the reasons that I became interested in GTD was because I thought it would help me overcome this problem to put calls into my weekly review list and deal with them as a task or project.
Unfortunately I think I may have to go to therapy for this problem. But I have isolated ONE major reason I don't like to make phone calls, it is because I don't like people to call me. Regardless of what I am doing I always feel interrupted when the phone rings, like some is intruding on my time. So, as a result when I make phone calls I feel like I am intruding upon someone else's time/life (this is only made worse when the person I call actually seems annoyed by the call).
This realization has helped me but it has not erradicated the problem. If anyone has a magic solution, that would be very welcome.
Shannon
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
(response moved from other thread to stay on-topic)
Hey, that's wicked.
I find that this !ANTIAVOIDANCE category works as long as only a FEW things go in there at a time, and its used sparingly and precisely, and the goal is to actually have it EMPTY.
In a way, its really not that different than putting a special Next Action onto the Calendar, to get it done that day, but its not day specific.
But I find it does work, just to deal with various NA's that have gone beyond a normal delay and have some type of "issue" blocking them. I find with me its usually some type of emotion about something, or maybe some type of "dread" about the NA somehow.
Another trick is that I have a nice procrastination knowledgebase-checklist that I have put together over time. It contains some of the techniques I use from CBT and other areas to overcome procrastination. I keep this info in the body of a Task in the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category.
So when I open the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category, I not only have a few Next Actions that are not getting done, I also have ALL the answers to getting that task DONE.
All the answers?
Well, at this point, I really do feel I have all of the knowledge to literally overcome any type of procrastination in the moment, even a literal phobia. If I work it, that is.
So the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category really is the end of the line, once a NA goes into there, its days are numbered, and the know-how to do it is right there as well. There is literally no escaping it, once it is there.
Once the procrastinated NA goes in there, you become AWARE that you want to get it done (cognitive), and often this is enough.
If its not enough then you use Behavioral Pushing, and other Emotive techniques to get it done, no matter what.
It is a pretty good idea, if I do say so myself!!!
rwarren said:
Hey, that's wicked.
I find that this !ANTIAVOIDANCE category works as long as only a FEW things go in there at a time, and its used sparingly and precisely, and the goal is to actually have it EMPTY.
In a way, its really not that different than putting a special Next Action onto the Calendar, to get it done that day, but its not day specific.
But I find it does work, just to deal with various NA's that have gone beyond a normal delay and have some type of "issue" blocking them. I find with me its usually some type of emotion about something, or maybe some type of "dread" about the NA somehow.
Another trick is that I have a nice procrastination knowledgebase-checklist that I have put together over time. It contains some of the techniques I use from CBT and other areas to overcome procrastination. I keep this info in the body of a Task in the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category.
So when I open the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category, I not only have a few Next Actions that are not getting done, I also have ALL the answers to getting that task DONE.
All the answers?
Well, at this point, I really do feel I have all of the knowledge to literally overcome any type of procrastination in the moment, even a literal phobia. If I work it, that is.
So the !ANTIAVOIDANCE category really is the end of the line, once a NA goes into there, its days are numbered, and the know-how to do it is right there as well. There is literally no escaping it, once it is there.
Once the procrastinated NA goes in there, you become AWARE that you want to get it done (cognitive), and often this is enough.
If its not enough then you use Behavioral Pushing, and other Emotive techniques to get it done, no matter what.
It is a pretty good idea, if I do say so myself!!!
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
(response moved from other thread to stay on-topic)
I think its important for each of us to recognize that we each work in different ways. For example, I know some successful people who don't have anything more than a little datebook, and they get basically everything done early. I also know other people who literally cannot "remember" to turn on their answering machines 50% of the time. There really is an amazing variance in human behavior in this regard.
Some people also have a lot more baseline anxiety than other people, and this can complicate matters. For instance, some people have very intense avoidance of even picking up the phone, or going to a meeting and speaking up. To some people that doesn't make any "sense" that they should be like this, but it is very real phenomenon.
It doesn't matter how carefully a person formulates their outcomes or actions, they are not going to "feel like" picking up that phone, or speaking up at a meeting, or 1000 other possible things along those lines. For example, if a person has anything close to a phobia, the evidence shows that cognitive intervention alone does NOT help by itself. It doesn't work. What does seem to work is to modify the behavior in a specific way, along with modifying the cognitive aspect (like GTD), but even this does not work for many people.
GTD is not a psychological system.
But the point I am making from experience is that there are huge numbers of people who have "irrational" blocks in their behavior, and to be honest, basically no amount of cognitive work alone (formulating the outcome, etc) is going to fix it.
In certain cases it will work. But in many other cases it simply will not work.
What I am saying is that for folks who are having these types of "blocks" that can be quite serious, that the way to go about defeating them is to do a type of behavioural exposure, which has been shown since the earliest behaviourists like John B. Watson, to actually work very well. That is really the treatment of choice these days, as the cognitive work occurs synchronously with the behavioural exposure.
So if a person does not have any "serious" procrastination problems, then good for them!
And obviously each person will ultimately have to figure out what works for them. Maybe Wiccan Chants work great for some people.
All I am saying, is if a person is having some serious problems in certain areas, and certain areas (context, Roles) are not working or moving forward, then the cognitive-behavioural modification can really work well.
A good example is exercising.
Some people enjoy it, and do it daily. Some hate it, and cannot do it for more than 2 days. Some hate it, but still do it. Some don't really care for it, but still get it done. Perhaps David Allen's idea of putting your exercising gear on works for some people, but for many it will not work. There can be much more to it than that for certain people, whereas some other people have no trouble at all. For me, the only thing that does work, is to PUSH myself to get started, and then once the legs get moving, everything is ok. I call that the MYL method. Move Your Legs method.
I have had challenges in this area, and have tried everything I could get my hands on. I was fortunate enough to do some training with some extremely smart and competent people, and through this process was able to see that most so-called procrastination methods actually don't seem to work at all. What does produce real changes, is by going right at the Behavior, and the controlled "pushing" of the behavior is literally the only way to go in many cases. People can spend years, or their lives, locked into certain things, when they could push through it quite quickly if things are done correctly.
Does this mean it works for everyone at all times? No, not at all.
So I am just putting the idea out there that a type of carefully controlled Behavioural Pushing can really W-O-R-K.
There is an enormous amount of scientific evidence backing up those methods, in dealing with phobias, panic, anxiety, depression, compulsions, and many other areas, which are much more difficult to deal with than simple procrastination. The same methods applied to everyday concerns, can work extremely well.
After working very hard at this for a long time, and doing a ton of research, I have found out that "pushing" the target behavior can truly get amazing results. Some people who have been stuck for years, can blow it out in a few weeks, or much less sometimes, with no hocus pocus.
Does this mean this is an answer for everyone? Not at all. As well, its very hard to explain some of these concepts, as they really have to be experienced in-vivo.
So really what I am doing is putting some ideas out there, and working them through my own mind.
The basic idea is that if the behavior is "stuck" then a strong "push" done in the right way can literally change something that has been stuck for many years.
And for those who are always moving forward in their career, and taking risks, and doing new and crazy things, sometimes you need to give yourself a push to overcome the fear.
And for some folks who have any type of Anxiety Disorder, or Depression, and things along those lines, (and there are millions of people like that), the simple fact is that the cognitive method (like GTD) done all by itself is most likely not going to work. I think its important for people to know that, so they don't beat themselves up, for not getting certain things done, even though they are aware of them.
I think if David Allen collaborated on a book with a top cognitive-behavioural psychologist, he could put out a fantastic resource to fine-tune the GTD process.
If anything, doing GTD, you come face to face with your own fallibility as a human, as the GTD system is so comprehensive.
So for those who are having serious challenges with GTD, maybe working more carefully at GTD is going to help, but maybe not.
I can't see how GTD by itself would be able to overcome anything approaching a phobic, or even somewhat anxious or depressive response.
All GTD will do, is make you more AWARE of what the problem is.
Its a complex area, and a fascinating area for more research, and these are some of my views at this time.
Maybe one day I will condense and write David Allen about this, that is, if I 'feel like it', and even remember or get around to it.
;-)
Gameboy70 said:
I think its important for each of us to recognize that we each work in different ways. For example, I know some successful people who don't have anything more than a little datebook, and they get basically everything done early. I also know other people who literally cannot "remember" to turn on their answering machines 50% of the time. There really is an amazing variance in human behavior in this regard.
Some people also have a lot more baseline anxiety than other people, and this can complicate matters. For instance, some people have very intense avoidance of even picking up the phone, or going to a meeting and speaking up. To some people that doesn't make any "sense" that they should be like this, but it is very real phenomenon.
It doesn't matter how carefully a person formulates their outcomes or actions, they are not going to "feel like" picking up that phone, or speaking up at a meeting, or 1000 other possible things along those lines. For example, if a person has anything close to a phobia, the evidence shows that cognitive intervention alone does NOT help by itself. It doesn't work. What does seem to work is to modify the behavior in a specific way, along with modifying the cognitive aspect (like GTD), but even this does not work for many people.
GTD is not a psychological system.
But the point I am making from experience is that there are huge numbers of people who have "irrational" blocks in their behavior, and to be honest, basically no amount of cognitive work alone (formulating the outcome, etc) is going to fix it.
In certain cases it will work. But in many other cases it simply will not work.
What I am saying is that for folks who are having these types of "blocks" that can be quite serious, that the way to go about defeating them is to do a type of behavioural exposure, which has been shown since the earliest behaviourists like John B. Watson, to actually work very well. That is really the treatment of choice these days, as the cognitive work occurs synchronously with the behavioural exposure.
So if a person does not have any "serious" procrastination problems, then good for them!
And obviously each person will ultimately have to figure out what works for them. Maybe Wiccan Chants work great for some people.
All I am saying, is if a person is having some serious problems in certain areas, and certain areas (context, Roles) are not working or moving forward, then the cognitive-behavioural modification can really work well.
A good example is exercising.
Some people enjoy it, and do it daily. Some hate it, and cannot do it for more than 2 days. Some hate it, but still do it. Some don't really care for it, but still get it done. Perhaps David Allen's idea of putting your exercising gear on works for some people, but for many it will not work. There can be much more to it than that for certain people, whereas some other people have no trouble at all. For me, the only thing that does work, is to PUSH myself to get started, and then once the legs get moving, everything is ok. I call that the MYL method. Move Your Legs method.
I have had challenges in this area, and have tried everything I could get my hands on. I was fortunate enough to do some training with some extremely smart and competent people, and through this process was able to see that most so-called procrastination methods actually don't seem to work at all. What does produce real changes, is by going right at the Behavior, and the controlled "pushing" of the behavior is literally the only way to go in many cases. People can spend years, or their lives, locked into certain things, when they could push through it quite quickly if things are done correctly.
Does this mean it works for everyone at all times? No, not at all.
So I am just putting the idea out there that a type of carefully controlled Behavioural Pushing can really W-O-R-K.
There is an enormous amount of scientific evidence backing up those methods, in dealing with phobias, panic, anxiety, depression, compulsions, and many other areas, which are much more difficult to deal with than simple procrastination. The same methods applied to everyday concerns, can work extremely well.
After working very hard at this for a long time, and doing a ton of research, I have found out that "pushing" the target behavior can truly get amazing results. Some people who have been stuck for years, can blow it out in a few weeks, or much less sometimes, with no hocus pocus.
Does this mean this is an answer for everyone? Not at all. As well, its very hard to explain some of these concepts, as they really have to be experienced in-vivo.
So really what I am doing is putting some ideas out there, and working them through my own mind.
The basic idea is that if the behavior is "stuck" then a strong "push" done in the right way can literally change something that has been stuck for many years.
And for those who are always moving forward in their career, and taking risks, and doing new and crazy things, sometimes you need to give yourself a push to overcome the fear.
And for some folks who have any type of Anxiety Disorder, or Depression, and things along those lines, (and there are millions of people like that), the simple fact is that the cognitive method (like GTD) done all by itself is most likely not going to work. I think its important for people to know that, so they don't beat themselves up, for not getting certain things done, even though they are aware of them.
I think if David Allen collaborated on a book with a top cognitive-behavioural psychologist, he could put out a fantastic resource to fine-tune the GTD process.
If anything, doing GTD, you come face to face with your own fallibility as a human, as the GTD system is so comprehensive.
So for those who are having serious challenges with GTD, maybe working more carefully at GTD is going to help, but maybe not.
I can't see how GTD by itself would be able to overcome anything approaching a phobic, or even somewhat anxious or depressive response.
All GTD will do, is make you more AWARE of what the problem is.
Its a complex area, and a fascinating area for more research, and these are some of my views at this time.
Maybe one day I will condense and write David Allen about this, that is, if I 'feel like it', and even remember or get around to it.
;-)
C
CosmoGTD
Guest
More concisely, I would say if a person is using GTD, and using the cognitive tools DA has suggested using to deal with sticky NA's, and its WORKING for them, then terrific! If It Ain't Broke, don't mess with it.
But for those of us who are having trouble getting certain NA's done, then the first step would be to carefully review what DA has said about this. He has said a lot, and what he is said is extremely good. Its all about really properly defining the NA, the Project, and wording it in a way that will help you. Most of the time, most of us have a sloppily worded project, and we stick it on the NA list by mistake, and then wonder why nothing magically happens and we resist it.
But after you have carefully done what DA suggest, and its still not happening, then more of a radical behaviorist approach might be useful.
To me its the same as the Top Down, Bottom Up thing.
But this is REALLY bottom up, as you are picking out the behavior right exactly where the rubber meets the road. You can't get any lower, or more bottom than this!
It is really the same thing that DA said he started doing with executives. Their desk was full of papers, and he simply grabbed ONE paper, any one of them, and said, "what is this" and also what needs to be done, and went from there. If it was quick, you would just DO the action right in that moment. Of course, this might be easier with DA standing there. But for example, if an executive was avoiding meetings due to an elevator phobia, then he cannot simple "overcome" it, he has to work through it behaviorally. This can also apply in many other ways.
So this radical bottom-up behaviorist method is quite similar. It does not require much advanced thought. You just pick ONE NA, that has already been properly defined, or at least reasonably defined (watch out for perfectionism!), and then you just Crank The Widget. It can almost be sort of mindless, like walking up the stairs, its just something that you gotta do to get where you are going.
If anyone wants to try it out, and see how it works, they can use this thread for that. Just pick ONE NA that is giving you trouble, and is not getting done, beyond a reasonable time.
Then we could try to work through the steps, and see what happens.
For me anyway, the focus of GTD at this point is on the DOING of the NA's, and not on overplanning, or making more lists, or moving lists around, or rewording lists, or making lists of how to make better lists, or trying 13 new software programs that make more lists based on your Roles and Zodiac sign, and all that fun stuff which is usually just AVOIDANCE of actually DOING some challenging stuff, like actually putting the money into the new project, or risking having a new project not work out and getting rejected, or picking up the guitar and risking sucking, or picking up the phone, and things of that nature. It seems to me, that the KISS idea is really the best for GTD. Just really keep it as simple as possible.
For me, GTD at this point, is really about where the rubber meets the road. Once you get the higher altitudes basically figured out, and most of your projects figured out, and your calendar works, and your Weekly Review works, and everything else is working fine, GTD does come down to cranking widgets, as he says. The widgets are the NA's, even if you are involved in highly creative and intellectual work. Ya still gotta finish that painting, or rewrite that paragraph, or make that call, or move your legs, or move your fingers on that keyboard.
For example, if a person does one Weekly Review every 6 weeks or so for 6 hours, then the behavioral bottom-up method is in my view really the only method that is going to work to get that Weekly Review happening each week.
So again, any folks who are having problems with the DOING of any part of GTD, or NA, or Project, feel free to post the precise problem, and then post the follow-ups to how you got it done. It can be very instructive.
But for those of us who are having trouble getting certain NA's done, then the first step would be to carefully review what DA has said about this. He has said a lot, and what he is said is extremely good. Its all about really properly defining the NA, the Project, and wording it in a way that will help you. Most of the time, most of us have a sloppily worded project, and we stick it on the NA list by mistake, and then wonder why nothing magically happens and we resist it.
But after you have carefully done what DA suggest, and its still not happening, then more of a radical behaviorist approach might be useful.
To me its the same as the Top Down, Bottom Up thing.
But this is REALLY bottom up, as you are picking out the behavior right exactly where the rubber meets the road. You can't get any lower, or more bottom than this!
It is really the same thing that DA said he started doing with executives. Their desk was full of papers, and he simply grabbed ONE paper, any one of them, and said, "what is this" and also what needs to be done, and went from there. If it was quick, you would just DO the action right in that moment. Of course, this might be easier with DA standing there. But for example, if an executive was avoiding meetings due to an elevator phobia, then he cannot simple "overcome" it, he has to work through it behaviorally. This can also apply in many other ways.
So this radical bottom-up behaviorist method is quite similar. It does not require much advanced thought. You just pick ONE NA, that has already been properly defined, or at least reasonably defined (watch out for perfectionism!), and then you just Crank The Widget. It can almost be sort of mindless, like walking up the stairs, its just something that you gotta do to get where you are going.
If anyone wants to try it out, and see how it works, they can use this thread for that. Just pick ONE NA that is giving you trouble, and is not getting done, beyond a reasonable time.
Then we could try to work through the steps, and see what happens.
For me anyway, the focus of GTD at this point is on the DOING of the NA's, and not on overplanning, or making more lists, or moving lists around, or rewording lists, or making lists of how to make better lists, or trying 13 new software programs that make more lists based on your Roles and Zodiac sign, and all that fun stuff which is usually just AVOIDANCE of actually DOING some challenging stuff, like actually putting the money into the new project, or risking having a new project not work out and getting rejected, or picking up the guitar and risking sucking, or picking up the phone, and things of that nature. It seems to me, that the KISS idea is really the best for GTD. Just really keep it as simple as possible.
For me, GTD at this point, is really about where the rubber meets the road. Once you get the higher altitudes basically figured out, and most of your projects figured out, and your calendar works, and your Weekly Review works, and everything else is working fine, GTD does come down to cranking widgets, as he says. The widgets are the NA's, even if you are involved in highly creative and intellectual work. Ya still gotta finish that painting, or rewrite that paragraph, or make that call, or move your legs, or move your fingers on that keyboard.
For example, if a person does one Weekly Review every 6 weeks or so for 6 hours, then the behavioral bottom-up method is in my view really the only method that is going to work to get that Weekly Review happening each week.
So again, any folks who are having problems with the DOING of any part of GTD, or NA, or Project, feel free to post the precise problem, and then post the follow-ups to how you got it done. It can be very instructive.
C
carol
Guest
OK, I'll bite
You asked for projects that just aren't getting done. I have one.
At Christmas I took the video camera to a family reunion and took some pics of the present opening and my cousins engagement party on Christmas Eve. I promised to make CD's for various family members.
However the project "Christmas Video" just isn't moving. I have even broken the N/A's down as far as get firewire lead out of camera bag; Install movie software onto laptop; find CD for movie software etc. but it isn't getting done.
I think partly it is because other things are more urgent and important when I look at my N/A list and need doing asap whereas there isn't really a hard and fast deadline for the video CD's.
Any ideas welcome!
Regards,
Carol
You asked for projects that just aren't getting done. I have one.
At Christmas I took the video camera to a family reunion and took some pics of the present opening and my cousins engagement party on Christmas Eve. I promised to make CD's for various family members.
However the project "Christmas Video" just isn't moving. I have even broken the N/A's down as far as get firewire lead out of camera bag; Install movie software onto laptop; find CD for movie software etc. but it isn't getting done.
I think partly it is because other things are more urgent and important when I look at my N/A list and need doing asap whereas there isn't really a hard and fast deadline for the video CD's.
Any ideas welcome!
Regards,
Carol