I'm very organized. I write everything down and organize. When I finish one next action I put the next one into the system using one of my inboxes. My projects are mostly in sales field so there's no evident plan of future actions available. It means I always have (and can) to think through a next action when the previous is done. When thinking about a next action I don't need a project list. That makes me think that I do not need a project list, it is an excess if you will. And I live Ok without it for almost a year. Any thoughts?
I don't need a project list
- Thread starter Kino
- Start date
S
supergtdman
Guest
I can't imagine doing GTD without project list personally and I also don't see much effort in keeping one. However if you feel that you really don't need it then who knows - maybe you really don't need it. Have you tried using it at all? I would suggest to try it at least
Sure I tried. That what I used. I posted here to say it worked! And it works fine for me now. It works for any Area of Focus not only business and sales projects in particular. I don't have that huge projects like a i.e. house construction. For that case I would have only construction company control actions.
bradenchase
Registered
Other areas of your life
I'd like to second TesTeq. With things I am used to and familiar with, I don't need projects or often even NAs because other factors will trigger the actions. Routines are easy and when you're good at them, they probably don't need to be tracked.
The real value in the whole system is in the new things. The new habit you want to take up. You lost your job in sales and the only opportunity you have now is in Nepalese cuisine, or the linguistics of Sanskrit, or Chiropractics, or inventing a lawn-mower that runs on water, etc or some other thing you have little knowledge/experience with.
Example, I currently have a responsibility to post updates to twitter for my company. I had avoided using twitter until it was required by my job. So, when it was first given to me, I didn't even know how to post, what "re-tweeting" was, how to follow, or any of the other aspects of twitter. For about a month, twitter was an area of focus for me with probably about 20 projects attached to it. My job required that I be perfect in my use of twitter but didn't really teach me how to use twitter (who's had that experience before, raise your hand). Then, as I got better and the learning curve broke, I was able to close down that area of focus and move it to just some projects in PR area of focus. Now I maintain the entire system with about five repeating NAs.
Now, moving out of work. How about the same thing with your relationships? Do you always know the "next action" with your wife (significant other) after a fight? How about your kids, your parents, you next door neighbor, etc. Or your finances? Are you a millionaire? Do you want to be? What do you want to do in order to get there? Personal hobbies? Didn't you used to love working on bicycles when you were younger? Health & Vitality? Do you really want to lose that tummy? Fun & Entertainment? Maybe expand to taiko drums or ancient chinese dance? Or ballet? Or deep-sea diving?
As David always says, as much as you need but as little as you can get by with. I don't need a project for every single thing that goes on in my life. But I do need projects for things that are new to me, that I can't predict, or am not sure what the next action would be for what ever reason.
Hope that helps!
I'd like to second TesTeq. With things I am used to and familiar with, I don't need projects or often even NAs because other factors will trigger the actions. Routines are easy and when you're good at them, they probably don't need to be tracked.
The real value in the whole system is in the new things. The new habit you want to take up. You lost your job in sales and the only opportunity you have now is in Nepalese cuisine, or the linguistics of Sanskrit, or Chiropractics, or inventing a lawn-mower that runs on water, etc or some other thing you have little knowledge/experience with.
Example, I currently have a responsibility to post updates to twitter for my company. I had avoided using twitter until it was required by my job. So, when it was first given to me, I didn't even know how to post, what "re-tweeting" was, how to follow, or any of the other aspects of twitter. For about a month, twitter was an area of focus for me with probably about 20 projects attached to it. My job required that I be perfect in my use of twitter but didn't really teach me how to use twitter (who's had that experience before, raise your hand). Then, as I got better and the learning curve broke, I was able to close down that area of focus and move it to just some projects in PR area of focus. Now I maintain the entire system with about five repeating NAs.
Now, moving out of work. How about the same thing with your relationships? Do you always know the "next action" with your wife (significant other) after a fight? How about your kids, your parents, you next door neighbor, etc. Or your finances? Are you a millionaire? Do you want to be? What do you want to do in order to get there? Personal hobbies? Didn't you used to love working on bicycles when you were younger? Health & Vitality? Do you really want to lose that tummy? Fun & Entertainment? Maybe expand to taiko drums or ancient chinese dance? Or ballet? Or deep-sea diving?
As David always says, as much as you need but as little as you can get by with. I don't need a project for every single thing that goes on in my life. But I do need projects for things that are new to me, that I can't predict, or am not sure what the next action would be for what ever reason.
Hope that helps!
I too always create the next action at the completion of the current action and, yes, I often find that a project rolls along happily without me ever doing anything with the project on my project list. I almost certainly have some actions in my contexts which are streams of actions each following on from the other. My use of email as my list manager makes this all the more natural as I forward the email back to myself with the next next action in the title and the history and support material in the body.
One time when my project list comes in handy is for maintaining balance across my areas of focus or goals. Sometimes I have lots of projects running to do with say finance and none to do with skills development. So my project list allows me to see that and I shut some down and open others.
Another case is that I may want to keep a lot of support materials and ideas for a project, while not having them confuse the current next action for which they might not be directly relevant. So when choosing a holiday, I may have support materials for Turkey and India, while my next action is about ballooning.
One time when my project list comes in handy is for maintaining balance across my areas of focus or goals. Sometimes I have lots of projects running to do with say finance and none to do with skills development. So my project list allows me to see that and I shut some down and open others.
Another case is that I may want to keep a lot of support materials and ideas for a project, while not having them confuse the current next action for which they might not be directly relevant. So when choosing a holiday, I may have support materials for Turkey and India, while my next action is about ballooning.
bradenchase;92376 said:
As Socrates said "in the dispute the truth is born"
So I would like to dispute a little bit. We agreed that my work as a routine don't require projects to be set. Now moving out of work. What project should I track in regards to my wife? Or kids? Or anybody else? I can always set a next action and when done put a new one into the system (usually through intermediate step - my inbox). Ballet? That's easy and usually can go to the calendar so there's no need in a project. Can you give any real example where you would need a project so I can show you how to make it without the one?Popeye;92381 said:With projects I do thinking...
I think about what to do with this project, creating a creative thinking about this project. Making me sure that I don´t lose any balls of the project..
I couldn´t do it without a projects list. but that´s me...
If you finish a next action of the project you need to think what to do next anyway. Why do you need an artificial list of project in front of you when you have to decide only this particular project action now?
kelstarrising
Kelly | GTD expert
Kino,
The Projects list also serves as a focus list for seeing the successful outcome.
But hey, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. It doesn't sound like you want to be convinced otherwise so stick with what works for you.
Kelly
The Projects list also serves as a focus list for seeing the successful outcome.
But hey, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. It doesn't sound like you want to be convinced otherwise so stick with what works for you.
Kelly
ellobogrande
Registered
Kino;92392 said:
Next actions are like bookmarks; they remind you where you've left off in the pursuit of a particular outcome. You need reminders of the outcomes that you've committed to achieving and therefore you need a projects list. It's one of the most critical lists in GTD.
When I'm in the war zone and getting pulled in multiple directions I don't have time to stop and think of the next action(s). Many times my next actions are defined during a weekly review. Without a projects list I would have no reminders of my outcomes and I'd get that nagging feeling that I'm forgetting something (i.e. my brain would take back the job that the system should be doing).
Everyone has projects by D.A.'s definition and therefore everyone needs a projects list. If it's not written down then it's in your head and that violates the first "mind like water" principle: Keep everything out of your head.
Suelin23
Registered
If you haven't got a project list then I'm guessing you haven't written down your horizons of focus either. It's not that you don't have a projects list, it's just in your head and not written down.
Examples of Personal projects - family vacation, buying a car, son's grade 4 education etc. You probably do have projects, you are just keeping track via the next actions and not a standalone list.
I can't do that because my memory is like a sieve. If you like to work that way then fine.
Examples of Personal projects - family vacation, buying a car, son's grade 4 education etc. You probably do have projects, you are just keeping track via the next actions and not a standalone list.
I can't do that because my memory is like a sieve. If you like to work that way then fine.
Kino;92391 said:
Yes, good point. In my case the two are the same because my project list is a set of folders underneath a folder called Projects. I create one when a project has enough weight that it requires a description of its outcome or support materials or, alternatively, requires a due date.
Otherwise, I'd go along with the idea that I get minimal value out of having the project list for what I call 'rolling projects'. I have a number of these specially for externally driven tasks such as a letter from the government to submit my corporation tax. I currently have an action called [CORP TAX] Scan letter and email to accountant.
I don't have a project list either and get by perfectly well without one. I think asking about this on the DA forum is probably the wrong place to ask as the project list is one of the aspects that makes the "GTD" system different to a lot of other similar systems. I have often worried about not having one, have had one and ran with it on many occasions but have always ended up stopping using one due to the low benefit effort ratio. Make sure you have tried it but if it doesn't work for you, don't worry, you are still in good company!
Jamie Elis
Registered
How to reap the benefits of a Project List?
One great benefit is just in the making--It has helped me gain focus and pare down what is active and what is sdmb to make a project list. When processing stuff, be it paper, objects or ideas (usually on paper), if I can force them through the mill of what and why then "when" and other features emerges as the next dimension.
But the other benefits are are in the reviewing and there hurdles here:
1) to review the project list at reasonable points, and to do so without getting depressed about what has lingered, expired, or otherwise become a lost opportunity.. That is perhaps best solved by regular reviews and including a little statement of why something is deferred and reminders of when to review again on the calendar.
2) to make the list searchable and easily readable so that a project is not defined more than one time and related projects come together, and to make bits of related information easily retrievable.
Using a paper system I am really be-fuddled by this later one--
For example, upon unpacking a box about 18 months ago I found my dearly loved antique curtain rings and put on my list "SDMB: Make curtains that display antique rings--next action determine which window is most suitable and/or research to see if more rings are available". Now,just recentyr, I found some fabric in a relative's closet and onto my list went "SDMB: make curtains using Auntie's old satin fabric and use old plain cotton sheet for lining". All the meanwhile, an active project on my list for almost a year has been "make, buy or re-purpose something for shades or curtains for the closet- room (it's really a closet with five windows). I have been through all kinds of next actions for this project such as "determine if old shades in basement will fit", "see what is in the old curtain box--measure and put on reference list", "bring dimensions of windows to home store for prices if going there anyway", "visit or call JC Penney's to see can I exchange old curtains still in unopened package for something that will work in closet-room?" , "can I buy a roll of black paper and use it on the one sunny side?". Somehow, my brain never connected the three projects until I was trying to determine the purpose of my keeping the old satin.
Had I been using my dear old Palm with its robust search function, just putting in "curtains" would have pulled up all three projects, and pulled up from my @ lists the dimensions of the materials at hand, the number of rings I had, and the dimensions of the windows.
So the question is what are the ways to make a Project List work for you?
One great benefit is just in the making--It has helped me gain focus and pare down what is active and what is sdmb to make a project list. When processing stuff, be it paper, objects or ideas (usually on paper), if I can force them through the mill of what and why then "when" and other features emerges as the next dimension.
But the other benefits are are in the reviewing and there hurdles here:
1) to review the project list at reasonable points, and to do so without getting depressed about what has lingered, expired, or otherwise become a lost opportunity.. That is perhaps best solved by regular reviews and including a little statement of why something is deferred and reminders of when to review again on the calendar.
2) to make the list searchable and easily readable so that a project is not defined more than one time and related projects come together, and to make bits of related information easily retrievable.
Using a paper system I am really be-fuddled by this later one--
For example, upon unpacking a box about 18 months ago I found my dearly loved antique curtain rings and put on my list "SDMB: Make curtains that display antique rings--next action determine which window is most suitable and/or research to see if more rings are available". Now,just recentyr, I found some fabric in a relative's closet and onto my list went "SDMB: make curtains using Auntie's old satin fabric and use old plain cotton sheet for lining". All the meanwhile, an active project on my list for almost a year has been "make, buy or re-purpose something for shades or curtains for the closet- room (it's really a closet with five windows). I have been through all kinds of next actions for this project such as "determine if old shades in basement will fit", "see what is in the old curtain box--measure and put on reference list", "bring dimensions of windows to home store for prices if going there anyway", "visit or call JC Penney's to see can I exchange old curtains still in unopened package for something that will work in closet-room?" , "can I buy a roll of black paper and use it on the one sunny side?". Somehow, my brain never connected the three projects until I was trying to determine the purpose of my keeping the old satin.
Had I been using my dear old Palm with its robust search function, just putting in "curtains" would have pulled up all three projects, and pulled up from my @ lists the dimensions of the materials at hand, the number of rings I had, and the dimensions of the windows.
So the question is what are the ways to make a Project List work for you?
Oogiem
Registered
Jamie Elis;92800 said:
Your example is exactly why the only times I've tried paper I can barely last long enough to get my electronic system up and running again. I can't imagine doing GTD without the ability to do robust searching of projects. I'm in awe of anyone who can make a paper system work with that type of projects.
Nicholas Hughes
Registered
The project list is for yourself or for a team?
We can do a list to manage our things; But if in a team and as a team leader, how should we manage everybody's working?
We can do a list to manage our things; But if in a team and as a team leader, how should we manage everybody's working?
Cpu_Modern
Registered
If as a team manager you manage how everybody is working you are doing it wrong. That is called micro-managing and the bosses who do that usually are among the worst of their kind. Make sure what you need from your team and order it. Ask them if they need any ressources or other help from you and then trust that they are able anough to do their work. Learn to be clear in communicating your expectations. The project planning chapter in the GTD book has some good points about this i. e. standards for projects etc then let it go. Be clear about the big picture, paint the big picture, that's your job as a boss.
What project should I add recurring actions to?
Hi all,
This is an interesting topic. I have the same query as the initial poster. What project should I add 'Call x about signing up as a customer'? Its a recurring thing in my business and not a project with an end date.
I think setting up a separate project for each customer I want to sign up is overkill. Also once they are a prospect I add them to our CRM and use the 'current opportunities' tab in that to prompt me about emails I need to send them or about follow up calls. So they are only on my next action list until I've made initial contact and established that they are a prospect.
What do you think the best is to do this?
Hi all,
This is an interesting topic. I have the same query as the initial poster. What project should I add 'Call x about signing up as a customer'? Its a recurring thing in my business and not a project with an end date.
I think setting up a separate project for each customer I want to sign up is overkill. Also once they are a prospect I add them to our CRM and use the 'current opportunities' tab in that to prompt me about emails I need to send them or about follow up calls. So they are only on my next action list until I've made initial contact and established that they are a prospect.
What do you think the best is to do this?