Why all GTD Software is broken (for me at least!)

[LG User]

Have you tried LifeGunk?

You should try LifeGunk. It is a life management and social networking website. There is a YouTube video on what it is, and it does address some of the issues you talk about with these GTD software, notably the "cloud" aspect. It's a website, so all your tasks, activities, ideas, etc. is available on any device that has internet access (including Android devices). I personally use it for work.

 

[TesTeq]

Why all GTD Software is broken?

Why all GTD Software is broken?

Because of our unrealistic expectations.

You really need an easy to use list manager. Nothing more and nothing less.

But many people dream about smart software applications that would think for them. And think better than they can think about their life and priorities. Software applications that would take responsibility for the result of this thinking and the decisions made.

There's no such software and never will be.

 

[Popeye]

I second that....

Why all GTD Software is broken?

But many people dream about smart software applications that would think for them. And think better than they can think about their life and priorities. Software applications that would take responsibility for the result of this thinking and the decisions made.

[/b]

There will not be an magic silver bullet to use... and, by the way...
What software could think better than you what´s important in your life...
It´s you - not any software or other system - that have that feeling of what´s important for you.

 

[supergtdman]

I second that....

There will not be an magic silver bullet to use... and, by the way...
What software could think better than you what´s important in your life...
It´s you - not any software or other system - that have that feeling of what´s important for you.

Yeah, but this is all true except when you really have an awesome tool it's still a lot easier than when you have a tool which clogs up the whole process. It's not like the tool doesn't matter. The tool doesn't matter if you don't get gtd or don't want to think. Otherwise the tool matters a lot.

 

[mcogilvie]

Yeah, but this is all true except when you really have an awesome tool it's still a lot easier than when you have a tool which clogs up the whole process. It's not like the tool doesn't matter. The tool doesn't matter if you don't get gtd or don't want to think. Otherwise the tool matters a lot.

Many people spend a lot of money on products to "look better" but what they really want is to feel better about themselves. If your tool works, and you feel good about using it, then it's a good choice. There are things I don't care for in all of the popular GTD-ish list tools I know, but that doesn't make them bad tools. Most people, myself included, use "find the right tool" for procrastination rather than productivity.

 

[supergtdman]

Many people spend a lot of money on products to "look better" but what they really want is to feel better about themselves. If your tool works, and you feel good about using it, then it's a good choice. There are things I don't care for in all of the popular GTD-ish list tools I know, but that doesn't make them bad tools. Most people, myself included, use "find the right tool" for procrastination rather than productivity.

I'm not talking about most people because most people don't fully implement gtd either
I'm talking about my personal experience for the most part. The better you are at gtd the more the tool matters. Because it's a lot more noticeable when it clogs up the whole process.

It's a subtle line but it's there.
I am personally not searching for any right tools at the moment because I know exactly what I need from my system. I know exactly how an ideal app for me personally would work. I have it written down in a mind map.
I know exactly what is not perfect for me in the current tool I use. I know if it's something that really matters or not. And it's not. I also know that there is nothing better for me personally at the moment. I know what has to happen/change for me to change my system.
There is no open loop for me. I have it all written down
That's the difference between simply looking for a better tool because of procrastion and looking for a better tool when you know you need it.
You need the right tool but you have to know exactly what you want otherwise you can just use whatever is available and it wouldn't matter. And to figure out what you want you would still have to try some different things at first.

 

[ccoleman99]

I must say I don't understand why so many people are suggesting that there's something wrong with the original post's desire for a better GTD tool. He didn't say he was looking for a perfect tool that would solve every problem in life. Rather, he spelled out a perfectly reasonable set of characteristics that he wants his software tool to have. It's pretty close to what I'd like as well.

To analogize to one of my own hobbies, nobody is suggesting that having good tools is either necessary or sufficient to build a nice piece of hand-crafted furniture. If you know what you're doing, you can make almost any set of tools work; if you don't know what you're doing, no set of tools will do it for you. But that absolutely does not mean that having nice tools is irrelevant, or that searching for better tools is a waste of time.

To the original poster, if you had a Mac/iPhone set up, I would suggest Omnifocus. If you don't, you might take a look at Nirvana. It's a web-based tool that is shaping up to be a pretty nice implementation of GTD. It's fully usable now, but be warned that it is still in development. The main thing that it lacks, to my mind, is direct access through an iPhone or Android app. There is a mobile website version, so it's still usable on a phone, but only if you are online, and it's not ideal. I understand that apps are under development, so at the very least you might check in with the site from time to time to see how it progresses.

 

[supergtdman]

I must say I don't understand why so many people are suggesting that there's something wrong with the original post's desire for a better GTD tool. He didn't say he was looking for a perfect tool that would solve every problem in life. Rather, he spelled out a perfectly reasonable set of characteristics that he wants his software tool to have. It's pretty close to what I'd like as well.

To analogize to one of my own hobbies, nobody is suggesting that having good tools is either necessary or sufficient to build a nice piece of hand-crafted furniture. If you know what you're doing, you can make almost any set of tools work; if you don't know what you're doing, no set of tools will do it for you. But that absolutely does not mean that having nice tools is irrelevant, or that searching for better tools is a waste of time.

To the original poster, if you had a Mac/iPhone set up, I would suggest Omnifocus. If you don't, you might take a look at Nirvana. It's a web-based tool that is shaping up to be a pretty nice implementation of GTD. It's fully usable now, but be warned that it is still in development. The main thing that it lacks, to my mind, is direct access through an iPhone or Android app. There is a mobile website version, so it's still usable on a phone, but only if you are online, and it's not ideal. I understand that apps are under development, so at the very least you might check in with the site from time to time to see how it progresses.

I agree and we also suggested same tools - Omnifocus and Nirvana. Great minds think alike?

 

[TesTeq]

I'm the one who sees things differently.

The better you are at gtd the more the tool matters. Because it's a lot more noticeable when it clogs up the whole process.

I'm the one who sees things differently. I think that the better you are at GTD the less the tool matters.

It's because the goal is not to do GTD better but to do the most important things in your life better. And GTD is not the most important thing in my life.

 

[TesTeq]

Why all the hammers are broken?

To analogize to one of my own hobbies, nobody is suggesting that having good tools is either necessary or sufficient to build a nice piece of hand-crafted furniture. If you know what you're doing, you can make almost any set of tools work; if you don't know what you're doing, no set of tools will do it for you. But that absolutely does not mean that having nice tools is irrelevant, or that searching for better tools is a waste of time.

But many people are continuously looking for a perfect hammer instead of building a nice piece of hand-crafted furniture with a good enough hammer that they already have. And they are asking a similar question:

Why all the hammers are broken?

 

[supergtdman]

I'm the one who sees things differently. I think that the better you are at GTD the less the tool matters.

It's because the goal is not to do GTD better but to do the most important things in your life better. And GTD is not the most important thing in my life.

Is gtd the most important thing in life?
No.
I think I heard David Allen say something similar:
Is buying dog food to feed your dog - the most important thing in life?
No. And yes.
If you don't feed your dog it might eventually eat you when you're asleep.

Is keeping your house clean the most imporatnt thing in life, is buying toilet paper the most important thing in life? Yes and no.
It is the most important thing in life when you are in the right context and at the right time.

There is no such thing as the most important thing. Everything is important at different levels and horizons.

Gtd is just one areas of focus that one would want to focus on whenever necessary.

 

[supergtdman]

But many people are continuously looking for a perfect hammer instead of building a nice piece of hand-crafted furniture with a good enough hammer that they already have. And they are asking a similar question:

Why all the hammers are broken?

Who cares about what "many" people do though? Most people are not doing gtd at all!

As long as you know exactly what hammer you need and you know it will save you lots of time and effort in the future then there is nothing wrong with getting it instead of using what's currently available in your house at the moment.

Simple. You need to see the long term benifits to realize this. If the benifts are worth it then get the new hammer , if the benifits are not worth then use the currently available good enough hammer.

Sure there is a catch though because if you have never used a good hammer at all then how do you know?
You still need to try some different hammers to get an idea of what's what. But that's not the point.

After a while you would get an idea of how good any hammer can possibly get so you would't have to constantly keep trying out new hammers.

One would think that It makes sense to invest some time in RNDing hammers if you plan to use them every day for the rest of your life... Instead of just starting with what was currently available ahd then also sticking with it for the rest of your life...

 

[mcogilvie]

I'm the one who sees things differently. I think that the better you are at GTD the less the tool matters.

It's because the goal is not to do GTD better but to do the most important things in your life better. And GTD is not the most important thing in my life.

I'm with TesTeq on this. But supergtdman believes he is absolutely clear on what gtd list tool would work best for him. I am reminded of Oscar Wilde: "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.” I suggest we agree that some existent software is ok, and it is possible to actually use it to get something done, and we'll look at possibly better software someday, maybe.

 

[Popeye]

This one is really good.

I like this strip...

Keep it simple and do the stuff.

Attached files

 

[supergtdman]

I'm with TesTeq on this. But supergtdman believes he is absolutely clear on what gtd list tool would work best for him. I am reminded of Oscar Wilde: "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.” I suggest we agree that some existent software is ok, and it is possible to actually use it to get something done, and we'll look at possibly better software someday, maybe.

Yeah, actually it is not that hard to have an awesome gtd tool. For me no software is broken, I can do gtd with plan txt files. But without listing the content of my mind map basicslly and in short I want to be able to manage actions and projects with as little effort and resistance as possible. Plus there are some features which I think are important and others are just nice to have.

I think having a good non actionable data system which syncs with mobile and all platforms and is backed all over the place and is structured really well and etc. etc. is actually a lot harder than a system for tracking actionable items.

Hey, well at least David Allen agrees with me about the fact the tool matters a lot but only if you know what you are doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mt9tJA77KY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's like professional sports, for example cycling.
Sure elite cyclist could ride on cheap bike anywhere but he would not use a cheap bike, he would use the most optimal one because he knows what he is doing.
But if you don't know how to ride a bike or want the bike to ride itself then it doesn't matter which bike you use

 

[ccoleman99]

It occurs to me that many of the features that I most appreciate/want to see implemented are not so much required for doing things, but rather to help me think about my life - ie, for planning and organizing, not for doing per se. So in one sense, yes, these features are just a distraction from actually getting things done. But for me, I consider the planning and organizing to be just as important. To pick a simple example, the ability to organize your list of projects into folders and sub folders is basically irrelevant to doing tasks, requires more time and overhead, and only encourages "fiddling" with the system. And yet, I find it very satisfying to be able to think about the big picture by pondering and "fiddling" with an organized list of projects.

 

[supergtdman]

It occurs to me that many of the features that I most appreciate/want to see implemented are not so much required for doing things, but rather to help me think about my life - ie, for planning and organizing, not for doing per se. .

Yeah, the devil is in the details.
One thing I personally like in Omnifocus on iPad is its contexts view in which you can see all your contexts and sub contexts at once and collapse and expand certain contexts. This way you can customize this view really quickly and conveniently to fit your current situation and see all context you can do in a single list and collapse others.
You don't have to go and check each single context separately or use some convoluted search terms to list for example contextA OR contextB AND NOT contextC.

It's just one example of a feature which is nothing really special but is very important when you use the system all the time because you want it to be as convenient as possible especially when it comes to checking your context lists.

There are many other features I really like in Omnifocus like forecast view, repeating projects or actions with as flexible due and start dates as possible, sub contexts, sub projects, review mode and such.
Now some of those features I find to be essential for me to do GTD comfortably.

There are lots of apps which do have some very cool features but on the other hand fail at those essential for me features.
One example is Nozbe, it has evernote and dropbox integration which is cool but Nozbe fails in a lot of other aspects. Sure evernote integration is cool but it isn't even implemented all that well and I can always just use Evernote separately. It's not important to have everything in one app anyway.

So my point is it's important to really know what you want from your tools, what is important to you and what is just nice to have. If a tool has cool features but lacks essential features then you can save yourself a lot of time and effort by not paying attention to it at all then regardless of how cool it looks.

Basically it's just common sense - focus on succesfull outcome in terms of what you want from your system and go from there instead of just searching for a cool tool for no real reason and just getting lost in the details. There is no perfect tool, one tool is always going to be a little better at something but it doesn't mean much.

 

[supergtdman]

Another thing to consider is switching your platform might be an option if you really can't find a gtd tool with all the features which are essential for you. I'm sure I wouldn't be comfortable with android or windows tablet. I've tried them.

I look at the OP original post and he lists all the features he would like to have but then also says that it has to be available for Android devices.

Well one of the reasons that I use iPad and iPhone is because they have the apps that I need. And I'm not talking about gtd apps only obviosly. I don't use a windows tablet or phone, or android tablet or phone just by chance.

So yeah, if there is nothing available on Android to satisfy your needs and if Android doesn't have anything essential for you which iOS doesn't have then instead of struggling with lacking options maybe consider switching to iOS.

By listing android as an essential feature you artificially limiting your options. And I doubt there is anything which makes Android really essential.

I mean if I'm going to list all of the features that I want from a gtd app and then also say that I want it to run on a windows then I'm simply going to be just as out of luck as the OP.

I think there is also a good reason why David Allen uses custom software built for himself which is based on Lotus notes AFAIK. He uses Blackberry and it's essential to him for security reasons so his desktop app syncs with his Blackberry.
I mean he is not using iOS or android or windows just by chance either.

 

[Jeff Templon]

Thanks for all the thoughts

Hi There,

Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts. A couple of answers to various people:

1) yep, if I use the hammer every day, it makes sense to get a good one. Did the same thing with my laptop, did the same thing with my sport shoes, did the same thing when I bought snow tires for my car.

2) Unfortunately I got the android phone before it occurred to me that it might be handy to sync my GTD system (at the time "Things") with the phone. That's why I have this strange combination. My plan rolls in October, at which point I could get another phone "for cheap" as an incentive to renew my plan with my provider. We'll see what happens then.

3) Both GetItDone.app and Nozbe are releasing Real Soon Now; GetItDone appears to be a significant overhaul of the interface as well as the sync protocol, Nozbe releases a new version of the Android app. Two chances to get it right. I'm checking their web sites every week or so for activity, in the meantime trucking along with a somewhat simplified version of my ToodleDo setup -- all that investigation was useful in helping me realize how I had overcomplicated ToodleDo by turning on too many options.

If people are interested I can keep you all posted on developments.

Oh yeah, HiTask released an alpha Android App that does almost nothing, but at least it shows they are actually working on it!

 

[egallagher2k]

I have found

Been through everything you state. i am now with Andriod smartphone and tablet and a Windows Laptop and I find Astrid can do everything I need it to do. Love the recurring and regenetive tasks.