Any Christians who've read GTD?


Can we please close stop this post?

br4978;45454 said:
I guess suffering is in the perception of the recipient.

I think we should give cdevidal a break. It's very easy to cause hurt and offense on a forum without actually wanting to, especially when one doesn't know the background of the posters and the intent and origins of their words.



I agree that we should close the thread, but cdevidal should give us a break. He opened the thread with a provocative "question" then immediately attempted to foreclose any skepticism of his integrity by asking the skeptical not to reply. Very much like a parent who slaps a child then feigns indignation at the child's subsequent crying.

I'm calling BS on the whole line of questioning, the motivation behind it, and the distraction this thread represents to serious inquiry. I don't pretend be "tolerant" of nonsense, even when it disingenuously passes itself for Christianity.


My understanding of Nettiquete has always been that it is poor form to post something to a public discussion forum and then append "Please, only people who are/do/beleive X answer"-- and I feel this way regardless of whether I am, do, or beleive whatever "X" is.

Once I post something to a public discussion forum, just as I am giving up say over who can read what I've written, I've also given up say over who can respond to it.

If he genuinely wanted to discuss the issue only with people who subscribe to his flavor of Chrsitanity, a better way of handling it would have been to say "If there are any {whatever he calls his denomenation/sect/etc} Christians out there who are willing to discuss their experiences with, or opinion of, GTD, please send an e-mail/pm", and then let the thread go where it will.

But to be fair, that is a minor enough violation of ettiquite that I can't claim to never have done anything that would be considered in just as poor form.


Why are we having this meeting?

I see each of these threads as ongoing meetings with permanent minutes. I would hate to see it closed down. I think it's highly possible to address the issues involved without getting personal. So why are we having this meeting and why is it so hard for me to stop sticking my head in on this one? Could it be as MiataPops points out that the GTD process is as relavent to 50,000 foot questions as the runway? I would like to suggest that conflict over religious issues represent 50,000 (why am I on this planet) open loops.

If your current religious commitments lead to a defensive response to the 50,000 foot committments that others have made, then you may have some serious open loops to contend with before you're ready to engage constructively with anyone else on the planet at this altitude. This thread got off on the wrong foot by suggesting that "why am I on this Planet?" can be honestly discussed by excluding anyone else on the planet. I think it's great that GTD assumes that everyone on the planet has legitimate access and opportunity to answer these particular open loops. Can't get more big tent than that. And isn't the view great from up here?

It seems to me that every religious text is an attempt by humans to close those 50,000 open loops once and for all, and it's tempting to think that those of us living today could just graft them onto the present and not have to do the executive GTD thinking ourselves about the issues they address. I haven't seen any clear evidence that living "by the book" so to speak closes those loops without personally wrestling with questions like, If God is speaking to us through these religious texts, why does each one claim to be the sole source?" or "How can God be on each side of wars (as each set of warring children claim) between his/her children?" You won't find uncontradicted answers in the religious texts themselves so no fair proof texting.

Here's another thought. If your purpose on this planet is to save all souls from damnation, then I represent a particularly recalcitrant open loop for you since I'm with the Pope on that one, that hell does not exist as a place we need to be saved from.
Pack Matthews


an attempt at a theological response

cdevidal says he won't return here, but for the benefit of innocent by-standers, I would like to offer my point of view. (home sick today and allowing myself all manner of wasted time)

My guess is that cdevidal is pretty young. At any rate, he is immature, both socially and spiritually. He's careless about his language in a public forum, thereby subjecting his faith (and mine) to public scorn. He refuses to acknowledge that his comments are hurtful to some, and imprudent for purposes of winning over others.

That said, I commend his desire to think about the use of GTD and his faith. Despite his other flaws, as I see them, this does speak of a desire for integrity (in the sense of wholeness, an undivided state, or unity of character).

The claim that GTD is purely secular is not a good answer to cdevidal's question. If the God that he says he believes in actually exists, then nothing is purely secular, as the term is used today. Look up the Latin origins of the word to see what I mean; this world is no less God's world, theologically speaking.

But, also, if the God that he says he believes in exists, then this God's attributes and works speak to his question. Everything that is, is good because created by God. That's not to say that the truths and principles captured in GTD, or anywhere else for that matter, cannot be misused. They can be. And that's not to say that they are neutral. They're not. They are good but can be misused.

I happen to hold to a demonological conception not completely different from cdevidal's. The difference is probably this. While I believe in personal spirits, good and evil, I also believe that anything can become a de facto "god" or idol when it takes a higher place in the divinely-established order of things than it ought, and I think that's the real issue here. Some readers probably know of GTD fans that build their lives around GTD to an extent that DA himself would disown. (Remember the SNL sketch where William Shatner visited a Trekkie convention and told them all to get a life?)

We're not Manicheans, cdevidal, my friend. The battle we wage is not between relatively balanced forces of good and evil. Anything given over to evil is stolen, and misused, not evil by design. GTD's full of good advice. And all truth is God's truth.

So it is truthfully written, "To the pure, all things are pure."



I accidentally stumbled across this thread because I was searching for MSIA and GTD connections.

What a hoot!

Clearly, cdevidal is an anagram for c-da-devil.

Be very afraid.


2toxic;46434 said:
I accidentally stumbled across this thread because I was searching for MSIA and GTD connections.

What a hoot!

Clearly, cdevidal is an anagram for c-da-devil.

Be very afraid.

I love the way this guy keeps rejoining the forum with a new identity, posts a few friendly innocuous questions, and then resurrects this thread …. not.



Wrong guy

Sorry Dave, but it appears you are guilty of an incorrect assumption and a case of mistaken identity. I have only one prior post with some Newbie questions, and no other user names on this site.

I thought the entire thread was truly funny. All of you were far more understanding and patient with cdevidal than I would have been. Admittedly, I have a distorted sense of humor and may have shown bad judgment in attempting to share it. If anyone was offended, please accept my apologies.



Re: Any Christians who've read GTD?

> I've considered reading the book but David's use of
> phrases like "mind like water" and the Zen references
> have turned me off.

You have just, in 22 words, proven yourself to be a closed-minded, sheltered, absolute MORORN


Another thought

I am a very serious Christian, and have been for decades. I understand your concerns because I have the same template about what comes into my mind. I find what David says is totally consistent with my understanding of Chritianity, and enhances it. The spirit I find in David's work is a spirit of joy, focus-on-reality, no-nonesense approach to living a life of integrity, based on the First Principles (40,000 ft level) which each person must define for her/himself in good conscience. For me, sinner and sluggard that I am, David Allen has helped me immensely in my Christian journey.


Rabbit Hole

Honestly, this thread was a major rabbit hole...but I must admit, I'm not sure when I have laughed this hard. Ah, me and my seductive time wasters! (oops, I said seductive....will lightening strike?) :cool:



Since you seem to be worried that a book about managing your life and work is going to somehow change your core beliefs, which must be extremely weak if you are seriously asking these questions, maybe you should stick to CARM.ORG and ask your friends there if a demon lives in GTD. Maybe ask a few muslim fanatics, jewish fanatics, etc. until all of you religious zealots can (not likely) come to a concensus on whether GTD is a danger to your puritanical, close-minded, "my religion is the best" nonsense. As you said, this is not the place for your religious nonsense. Check with Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Osama Bin Laden, George Bush, or one of those other religious "geniuses" that speaks to God on a regular basis. They probably have the answer you want to hear. GTD is not for, nor will it work for, someone with as closed a mind and tight an #@& as you seem to have. :twisted: