If new project: when to create all necessary actions (using Nirvana)

Marelva

Registered
Hello,
I started GTD a few months ago using NirvanaHQ and I love it.
But something I don't quite understand.
When starting a project, when do you create all actions?
Option 1: whenever you want. But....in Nirvana, when you do not make at least one action, the project doesn't appear on your next action list. So then I would have to always check not only the next action list but also the project list for not overlooking anything.
Option 2: at least 1 next action when making a new project. That way you don't have to check the project list all the time. But then you have to remember each time you finish a task, to immediately create the next action. It would resolve itself on my once a week maintenance hour, but then you would slow down your project only because there aren't yet any tasks.
Option 3: when you start/type a new project, you immediately determine all actions necessary to finish the project. But that's not always a simple task. I am very strict (or at least I try to be) in only creating very doable tasks. So chopping up a project in only easy one step doable tasks that work for me, takes time.

So, how do you guys do that?

(Excuse my English is not my first language)
 

TesTeq

Registered
When starting a project, when do you create all actions?
@Marelva Never. I define the successful outcome of the Project and the first Next Action. Optionally I put some additional info in the Project notes (sometimes I include some next Next Actions if there's something non-obvious).
 

RobertWall

Registered
Between option 2 and option 3 for me. I was working with somebody once that had a project roughly like this:

Return item to friend
* Find item
* Get envelope
* Get stamps
* Email friend to get address
* Address envelope
* Put item in envelope
* Put envelope in mailbox

They 2-minute-ruled "email friend to get address", looked through the desk and checked off "get envelope" and "get stamps", so what was left was

Return item to friend
* Find item
* Put item in envelope
* Waiting for friend to send address
* Address envelope
* Put envelope in mailbox

They recorded all of that in their system as a combo of parallel / sequential projects. That way when they finished "find item", "put item in envelope" came up next automatically. And when the friend sent the address, "address envelope" would come up next automatically. And of course once those were both done, "put envelope in mailbox" came up next automatically.

There's not a strict *need* to do that level of granularity, but if you've already thought it through I don't see the harm in recording it.

The time when it's beneficial *NOT* to record everything is when it's causing you to sit there and try to exhaustively anticipate every contingency, or when some of the future is unknown. "Meet with Frank re: project" legitimately might change everything you thought you knew about what you were supposed to do, so planning beyond that may be wasted time / effort.
 

Marelva

Registered
Thank you all so much for your input! I tried different approaches.
The idea that 'create master project + actions' on itself is a action, helps a lot! Every project I create for which I can not immediately produce necessary actions, I now immediately create the action 'create master project'. My projects have more speed now, that is great!
 

James M

Registered
I think I remember David Allen saying something like, "Plan in as much detail to get the project off your mind".

If there are specific steps that you've thought of and you'd like to get them out of your head, you could write those down as next actions. (Or maybe note down the ideas as project support material.)

So it depends how much it's bothering you!

The Natural Planning Model may have something to help with here, as it provides a structured way to move through the project planning stage.

One of the advantages of the Natural Planning Model is you can move back and forth through the stages as your project progresses. If you run out of next actions, go back up to the organise stage. If you need to re-think the direction of the project, move back up to the initial stages.

The brainstorming stage is particularly useful if you feed you have a lot of thoughts or considerations to get out on paper. If you capture these on a mindmap, list or similar, you can either use it to organise the project and define next actions, or keep the product as project support to prompt later.
 

Oogiem

Registered
When starting a project, when do you create all actions?
I don't use Nirvana but the issues are the same no matter what tool you use.

For me it depends. Sometimes once I define what done looks like for the project it's obvious what all the actions are. If I've spent enough time to actually properly plan the project I can then entere in all the actions into my GTD tool, Omnifocus. Most of my projects are of this type, once the project plan is done it very rarely changes. I also very rarely have projects wher I can do one or more actions independently of each other so I set all mine to be sequential as a default so that once I've added all the actiosn only the top one is available.

A few of my projects are such that I may know the end point and the first action, which will go into my OF system, but I may not know what comes after that first action. For those I put any of my half formed thoughts and ideas into project support materials and only add the project and the action I know about to my OF system. When I do that action I then refer to the project support materials or otherwise crete a bookmark action so I know where I am going with it next. Often the first action on those types of projects is "Go through the Natural Planning model on Project X"

I never put a project into OF without at least one action.
 
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