Nirvana HQ

[Bill Myers]

I reached out to Nirvana to confirm this. While I don't have reason to doubt @lastgasp, as a former journalist I do like to check my facts. I guess for me the question is whether they do this to paid subscribers or not.

While I think @mcogilvie has a good point (he almost always does), I think everyone has to decide for themselves whether and how principle trumps practicality. I don't know that this is a good policy, but I know if I left my Nirvana account untouched for a year, it would mean I had no use for anything in it. So this doesn't necessarily change my comfort level with Nirvana as my trusted system.

And it's worth point out that they make your data very easy to back up and export in non-proprietary formats, including as a CSV file. It's not like they hold you hostage.

 

[lastgasp]

Why on earth would task lists you abandoned a year ago be of any use? If I was returning to Nirvana after more than a year, the first thing I'd do would definitely be to delete everything, since most of the old projects and tasks would be irrelevant.

Now ask: Why on earth would recurring and archival client project content, dozens of evergreen lists, and curated reference material be of any use? I was not "returning to Nirvana after more than a year." I had been regularly referring to my reference material and checklists in Nirvana. I had not "abandoned" anything; I simply had not added anything new.

bcmyers2112: ... I know if I left my Nirvana account untouched for a year, it would mean I had no use for anything in it. ... is there any value in actions, projects, etc. that you haven't even looked at in a year? I doubt any of that "data" would be meaningful or reflective of your current reality. I think if they erased that stuff for me they'd be doing me a favor.

I would not presume to know the relative value of others' data, but Nivrana's policy to delete accounts and all associated data with no notice and no recovery option is not doing anyone a "favor."

For context: I purchased a lifetime pro license. A Nirvana rep suggested that I use a Gmail + account to implement the then-new GTD Nirvana setup guide. The Nirvana rep provisioned the +account for me as part of my pro account. The +account that Nirvana themselves suggested and provisioned is the one they deleted with no warning.

Here's the email from David with Nirvana Support confirming the policy I mentioned in my original post.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 8:48 AM Nirvana Support <team@nirvanahq.com> wrote:

All I can tell you is that there is no Nirvana account on the system with that email address and so no data for it either.

Basic (free) and Complimentary accounts are removed from the system after one year of no updated activity; that is no changes or additions to your projects and tasks. So I suspect that the account was deleted if that was the case.

I show that your pro account with this email address is still active although it's been more than 1 year from any update activity by a few days.
This is because it's a paid account, so unless you explicitly delete it, the account will remain active.

Thanks,
David

Hundreds of fellow forum members have posted through the years about setting up a trusted system, leaving it to try something else, and then returning to the original trusted system. I hope my caution about periodically adding to or editing one's Nirvana account and backing it up helps others protect their data against inadvertent loss.

 

[Bill Myers]

I would not presume to know the relative value of others' data, but Nivrana's policy to delete accounts and all associated data with no notice and no recovery option is not doing anyone a "favor."

I think that's a fair statement. But I think you inadvertently left out something important when you initially posted about this. As the email you copied into your post makes clear, the policy only applies to free accounts. I wrote to Nirvana myself to get clarification on that and confirmed this.

I don't expect this will change your opinion or assuage your anger, but I think it's an important fact that people need to be aware of if they're reading this back-and-forth and trying to form an opinion. I know I'm a lot more comfortable knowing that paid accounts won't be deleted under any circumstances (as they should not be).

While I think there's an argument that it should be made clear (or maybe clearer - it might be somewhere in the terms of service) to users that free accounts will be deleted after a year of not making any changes to the data, I also believe people should be careful about assuming that anything free cannot be taken away. Unless you have an explicit agreement with a company to the contrary, if you're not paying for it, it isn't safe to assume it will be available to you indefinitely.

I don't know what the nature of the "Gmail +" account is that you're referring to, but if memory serves me correctly the free tier of Nirvana is limited to five projects. They're not offering a fully functional account, just giving you enough of a taste to determine if the tool is for you. So I suspect that in practical terms, this policy won't hurt the overwhelming majority of people.

Your free account may have been different. This may not make you feel better, but yours may have been what is called an "edge case." That doesn't make your loss of data any less unfortunate. But I think it's good practice to try to offer good and complete information. I can't speak for anyone else, but knowing the full story leaves me fully confident that Nirvana can be my "trusted system."

 

[lastgasp]

I'm not angry. I posted as a public service, and edge case or not, my data was tied to my paid pro account. It was a fully functional account. Others who may have valuable data in paid accounts or free accounts should be aware of the risk. Deleting user data with no notice is a bad practice.

 

[Bill Myers]

Deleting user data with no notice is a bad practice.

Well, I dug a little further. This is from the Nirvana terms of service, which can be found at https://www.nirvanahq.com/terms:

In addition, if you are using the free version of the Service, Nirvana reserves the right to cancel your Account and delete all of your information after one year of inactivity. In such a case, you will be given two email notices prior to the cancellation and deletion.

So, first: it's in their terms of use (which all of us agree to when we use the service). I realize that may not be prominent enough for some, but it's there.

Second: they claim they provide two email notices before deleting a free account. If you believe you did not receive such notices, it may be worth following up with them. Maybe you can ask what email address they had on file and whether they can substantiate having sent you the notices or not.

I posted as a public service, and edge case or not, my data was tied to my paid pro account. It was a fully functional account. Others who may have valuable data in paid accounts or free accounts should be aware of the risk. Deleting user data with no notice is a bad practice.

Believe it or not, I appreciate your good intentions. At the risk of upsetting you, may I (in the kindest way I know how) suggest that providing incomplete information doesn't necessarily help the situation? Nor does exaggerating the risk. I don't know what it means to have data in a free account "tied to" a paid account. But I would warrant that for the overwhelming majority of paid users, this policy provides no risk whatsoever.

I applaud your good intentions. But I do think a complete picture is more helpful. Nirvana's policy is explicitly stated in their terms of service, it is limited to free accounts, and it is their stated policy to provide notice. If that didn't happen in your case (or, at the very least, if you believe it didn't happen), it might be worth following up with them.

I hope this helps clarify the situation. I know when I first read @lastgasp's initial post, I wondered whether I had placed my faith in a company that didn't deserve it. After getting a complete picture, I feel better. It's always worth checking the facts.

 

[lastgasp]

I'm not angry. I'm not upset. I'm also not interested in fencing about this. I was not using a "free version of the Service." I did not receive any email notifications from Nirvana about the impending deletion, and I keep close track of such things. I worked through the issue with the Nirvana support team, and I shared my experiences for the benefit of my fellow forum members.

 

[Oogiem]

Why on earth would task lists you abandoned a year ago be of any use?

Documentation. Ther eare legal reasons why I might need to verify and show what was done at times and the task list counts as corroborating evidence. For farmers there are rules about how long to keep certain animal records and again I need that data to persist whether or not I am "using" it regularly. This to me is a red flag against ANY use of Nirvana because that is totally unacceptable behavior for a software program and service.

 

[Bill Myers]

I'd like to apologize to @lastgasp and to everyone reading this thread for adopting a tone that was preachy and condescending. @lastgasp is entitled to share their view, and others are free to draw whatever conclusions they wish.

 

[mickdodge]

I'd like to apologize to @lastgasp and to everyone reading this thread for adopting a tone that was preachy and condescending. @lastgasp is entitled to share their view, and others are free to draw whatever conclusions they wish.

This is very gracious of you, @bcmyers2112 , but I just want you to know I personally did not perceive any hint of an antagonistic tone in your responses. Only a tone of diligent, helpful, and factual clarification, which I greatly appreciate! NirvanaHQ has been my trusted system since 2018 and knowing my paid subscription will not arbitrarily be deleted helps reassure my continued trust in that system. (That said, I always backup *any* online service I use whenever possible.)

 

[Ariadne Marques]

I paid for a Pro Lifetime plan in 2018 and have been a Nirvana proponent. I was among those who requested an official David Allen Nirvana setup guide. Fortunately, I export my data from various platforms regularly and still had a good local backup for the data Nirvana deleted. Here’s a link to Nirvana’s export instructions: https://help.nirvanahq.com/category/getting-more-from-nirvana/export-link/#export-your-item-history

A little bit late to the discussion, but I also have a Pro Lifetime plan since 2018 and I've never had any issues with Nirvana deleting my data. And as all of you pointed out, it's very good practice to regularly export and back up your data anyways

 

[Bill Myers]

This is very gracious of you, @bcmyers2112 , but I just want you to know I personally did not perceive any hint of an antagonistic tone in your responses. Only a tone of diligent, helpful, and factual clarification, which I greatly appreciate! NirvanaHQ has been my trusted system since 2018 and knowing my paid subscription will not arbitrarily be deleted helps reassure my continued trust in that system. (That said, I always backup *any* online service I use whenever possible.)

Thanks, @mickdodge. I appreciate that, but I could've stuck to the facts and not lectured @lastgasp about providing what I perceived to be an incomplete picture. I could've provided those facts and let them speak for themselves.

 

[mandymason]

I have got a Lifetime subscription to NirvanaHQ. It was a no-brainer at that time. I think it still is! The way how Nirvana integrates next-actions with projects is amazing and that's what keeps me coming back to it.

Same, and easily being able to convert a next action to a project - great. I keep trying other apps always to come back to Nirvana and realise it's me that's the problem and not the app ha ha

 

[Ridwan]

I was having an email conversation with our fellow GTD Connect member regarding contexts in NirvanaHQ. We thought it would be a good idea to share it here. So here it is ...

 

[Ariadne Marques]

I was having an email conversation with our fellow GTD Connect member regarding contexts in NirvanaHQ. We thought it would be a good idea to share it here. So here it is ...

Yes! Emojis in NirvanaHQ, here are my contexts:

 

[Lucas W.]

I have been testing Nirvana for last two weeks and before I had started my biggest concern was about referring to emails which are largely my actions/projects supports.

I have solved it by putting the email’s topic in Nirvana’s note’s sections – it works very well for me; easy to find a proper email by search tool in Outlook; quick and fully by keyboard.

Frankly (and surprisingly) I do not see a big workflow differences compared to my previous setup in Outlook Tasks (1Y) – it may be a good sign showing that GTD have been adopted in a proper way – no matter of the tool.

I have a few observations about Nirvana – but rather quite basic – for instance it looks that Chrome shortcut might be better than desktop app etc.

 

[Ariadne Marques]

I have solved it by putting the email’s topic in Nirvana’s note’s sections – it works very well for me; easy to find a proper email by search tool in Outlook; quick and fully by keyboard.

Frankly (and surprisingly) I do not see a big workflow differences compared to my previous setup in Outlook Tasks (1Y) – it may be a good sign showing that GTD have been adopted in a proper way – no matter of the tool.

I have a few observations about Nirvana – but rather quite basic – for instance it looks that Chrome shortcut might be better than desktop app etc.

Hi, @Lucas W. ! That's a good trick to put the email's topic in the notes section, I've never thought of that. I usually add a note "see email" and I go to my Outlook folder "ACTION-REPLY" to find the email. But I'll start adding the email topic, it's very useful when I have a lot of emails to deal with. Thanks!

 

[Lucas W.]

After few weeks with Nirvana I can say that it is definitely my tool of choice. There are a lot of features which are very apt from the GTD perspective but I just want to share my observation why I think Nirvana is more effective for GTD than other apps:

(1) With Nirvana you are forced to use the pre-defined lists and narrow your selection by context, time, energy, due date etc.

(2) Basic list managers (like MS To Do) allow you to make your own list and then you have to manually scroll the list down, review some items and then make the selection.

(3) Last and the biggest category refer to the more advanced tools (like Todoist) – and here you have to force yourself to use them as a basic list manager or (which is more likely) you will start to use the more advanced features like filters, labels etc. - in this case I have always fallen into a pattern of making lists which based on other lists and which need my manual task selection anyway.

 

[FocusGuy]

After few weeks with Nirvana I can say that it is definitely my tool of choice. There are a lot of features which are very apt from the GTD perspective but I just want to share my observation why I think Nirvana is more effective for GTD than other apps:

(1) With Nirvana you are forced to use the pre-defined lists and narrow your selection by context, time, energy, due date etc.

(2) Basic list managers (like MS To Do) allow you to make your own list and then you have to manually scroll the list down, review some items and then make the selection.

(3) Last and the biggest category refer to the more advanced tools (like Todoist) – and here you have to force yourself to use them as a basic list manager or (which is more likely) you will start to use the more advanced features like filters, labels etc. - in this case I have always fallen into a pattern of making lists which based on other lists and which need my manual task selection anyway.

I agree. Omnifocus uses perspective, to do ist does the same. Both needs a certain learning curve and implication.
Nirvana does the selection by progressive selection. So I agree with that point (Nb you can do the same with things 3 using "CMD " The function become X and Y eg @Phone and 15 mn). Also Nirvana is immediately efficient. Its learning curve is easy and fast and for GTD it is one of the best options may be the best I know.

 

[Bill Myers]

There are a lot of features which are very apt from the GTD perspective but I just want to share my observation why I think Nirvana is more effective for GTD than other apps:

I'm a very happy Nirvana user, and I think it's a great choice for GTD. But I've tried Todoist and played with MS To-Do, and I think they're great choices as well.

It's true that Nirvana is purpose-built for GTD, which makes for a much easier learning curve. Todoist and MS To-Do have to be bent towards GTD, which requires a little more effort and learning, but I didn't find that prohibitive for either solution. And I found some of the more advanced features in Todoist could be quite useful from a GTD perspective if I used them judiciously.

Nirvana is still my jam right now. But I don't think it enjoys any objectively measurable superiority over other tools. It suits me, and that's all we can ask of a tool.

So while I wouldn't try to persuade anyone that Nirvana is better than anything else, I will say that I'm having a great experience with it and it's worth a try if you're looking for a list manager.

 

[Ariadne Marques]

I just thought I would "revive" this thread!
Nirvana had some updates recently, and the biggest one was that all the interfaces (web, iOS, Android, Windows) are exactly the same now. From Nirvana's Help Desk: https://help.nirvanahq.com/updates/

The web app at https://focus.nirvanahq.com is now fully aligned with the downloadable Nirvana desktop apps, sharing the same code-base for feature parity + future improvements!

I liked that now there are color themes, and I switched from the dark theme to the customizable colored one (dark blue is my favorite right now).