Using an mp3 Player to Leverage Focus and Vision

  • Thread starter Thread starter CosmoGTD
  • Start date Start date
I agree with ceehjay.

I skimmed over your posts back when you first posted them but I didn't read them with a lot of thought and detail. Since that time I've been thinking about how I learn and how I program my own mind to accomplish things and set new standards (i.e. Leverage Focus & Vision in DavidCo terminology.) A lot of setting new standards for me has come through listening to the GTD Fast CDs and the Audible version of GTD and RfA as I commute, over and over.

I signed on this afternoon to find your posts deleted. I don't know if they are applicable to what I've been contemplating or not, but feel like I've been teased here. Oh well, it's your content and you certainly have the right to do with it as you please. I considered it on topic and I believe that you posted it to the right board. There are some chapters in Ready for Anything where it would be approrpiate for the Ready4Anything Yahoo! Group as well. You are welcome to repost it there. I can help you tie it in to a particular chapter if you would like. Alternatively, assuming that you aren't going to hold it for your pending book, I would appreciate it if you could personal message the content to me.
 
Hey guys, sorry, didn't mean to make a fuss.
My gut just told me to take it down, and I did.

Its nothing magical or mystical, and actually I have found it can create MORE stress in your life, and it might be the opposite to the GTD philosophy.

For example, if a person wanted to be a good public speaker, but for years, lets say, they avoided it, by giving away assignments, etc, because it made them extremely NERVOUS.
So they stay STUCK.

Then they decide that being a top-notch Public Speaker is an Outcome they WANT to bring into their life.
So they design the Outcome, and put it on their Master mp3 recording, and start actively "listening" to it daily, or more. So just THINKING about Speaking daily, in this Outcome focused way, is going to stop the cognitive avoidance, and so the Anxiety goes UP quite a bit.
Next time something comes up to do a Presentation, they TAKE it! Guess what? Anxiety is THROUGH THE ROOF now! Now you have butterflies, can't sleep at night, etc. You are confronted with all your fears that have held you back for years, in some cases.

So this is what WILL happen when you do this. Many things you may "avoid", this tool is going to FORCE you to think about.
Personally, I think this is GOOD, because the only way to get through the Anxiety that blocks you is to FACE it down. So in the short-term, your anxiety is going to go sky high. But after a while, it diminishes, and you are over your stage fright. (In Vivo Exposure Therapy).

This has happened to me quite a bit. Not for Public Speaking, as I do that a lot, but for other things.

So its sorta the opposite of GTD, where he says to think of things only once.
I am saying I am going to "force" myself to think about Outcomes I "want" but tend to avoid actualizing, every single day, sometimes a number of times a day, while exercising, etc.

Its like if a person wants to lose weight, but it doesn't happen for 10 years.
The day you start REALLY working on it everyday, lots of emotional "stuff" is going to come up.
So this is CBT or REBT, not GTD.

And if you Design a recording that involves many areas of your life, with Outcomes you are "bringing in", trust me, your Anxiety is going to go up a lot. (or some other type of emotional reaction).
How do I know this?
I don't, but I have found whenever a desired Outcome is NOT happening for a long time, there are some type of emotional REASONS behind it. We don't need to know the reasons, but just face it down, and the Anxiety, etc, will extinguish.

This is what I am doing, and its working really well.
Its not recommended by a psychologist, or anyone else.
So I would not recommend it for others, as it could increase ones Anxiety, etc. Especially, if one made all these Outcomes MUSTS. You could really get yourself in a pickle.

I am NOT making them musts at all, just very strong preferences and the natural excitement that comes from it.
There is much much more behind this, things I have been working on my entire life. Dozens of things, maybe hundreds all woven in together.
From Cognitive Theory, to Visualization, CBT, REBT, Imagery Rescripting and Reprocessing Therapy (IRRT), Cybernetics, Cognitive Science, Constructivism, Schema Therapy, Self-Hypnosis, Eriksonian Hypnosis, NLP submodality stuff, HDE, self-persuasion, Internal Dialogue, Self-Talk, Accelerated Learning principles, modifying your Core Beliefs and “Schemas”, Korzybski's General Semantics, and even more controversial and potentially harmful techniques of so-called "Thought Reform" you are doing on yourself. (big subject!). The more I work at this the more powerful I see it as being, and I think it can be abused, and can be harmful to oneself, if done carelessly. My gut tells me if I ran all of my ideas by a good psychologist, he would urge caution, and lots of careful reality testing. Maybe I will write it up, and submit it to a good REBT psychologist I know, and see what he has to say.

But the primary force behind this which I haven't mentioned, is that of Freedom vs. Determinism.
The philosopher Dennett's recent book, "Freedom Evolves" makes a powerful case for human freedom within a deterministic universe, an idea that people have struggled with for ages . The other theories I have mentioned also have the presupposition of human "Free Will" embedded in them.

So, the primary "tool" I am using here, is that of Free Will. Freedom of Choice and Thought in the moment.
As far as I can see, no matter what we may want to do, that is where it all begins.

So I hope you see when I say its NOT GTD.
Except though as I said, its a Reminder for your brain, and its a way of "automating" your Outcomes into your brain the same as breathing and walking and cooking dinner. They just "are".

I want to learn my Outcomes so well, I can forget them.
I am willing to discuss this, but I want to be more cautious.
I do believe this type of thing can be more than somewhat psychologically harmful, if done carelessly. I think I stumbled onto something here...

Its a way of literally Designing and Engineering your own Identity, and not just your Outcomes. To me, the most important area of all of these, are aspects relating to personal Identity. This is a huge subject, but I believe Identity can be not so much discovered, as Designed.
Big subject...

Coz
 
CosmoGTD said:
So its sorta the opposite of GTD, where he says to think of things only once.
Click to expand...
Actually, I believe the quote is something like, "There is no reason to have the same thought twice unless you want to have that thought." With the techniques of which you speak, the user WANTS to have that thought again. As I said earlier, I have listened to my GTD Fast, Getting Things Done, and Ready for Anything CDs over and over many times during my commute. Why? Because I wanted to. I wanted a deeper understanding. I wanted to pick up the finer details. Sure, I could have just read the book once, or listened to the CDs once, but then I probably wouldn't be black belt today. I needed the reinforcement. I needed to think about it over and over, and I still do.

I've been researching ways to improve my health through diet and exercise. I am probably one of the most disciplined people that I know yet I have little discipline in these areas. I developed a lot of my organizational discipline from listening the CDs I mentioned above over and over until it all became quite ingrained inty part of my psyche. I'm now collecting material from the web to make my own recordings of information about diet and exercise. I plan to listen to these over and over during my commutes and see how that works. I'm quite optomistic. That is what brought me back to this thread today.

I don't remember the details of the content from your original posts but I think this is similar to what you were talking about. In fact, your posts were probably what inpired that, to some extent anyway, since they were obviously in the back of mind when I though about that two days ago. Obviously there was at least some "resonance". If you still feel that it is anti-GTD then I wouldn't mind corresponding with you off-list about it further.
 
One idea about the health stuff, I would not suggest putting, "I am stopping eating chocolate bars".
The instant you do that, you will start thinking about eating chocolate bars 24/7! (or coffee, or whatever).
I tried making a list of "foods to avoid" a while back. WRONG!
It makes you crave them. Even caffeine, which I quit about a year ago, I put down, "I stay away from caffeine", so I started to crave it.
Its the power of suggestion.

What MIGHT work though, is to PERHAPS create the negative vision of coffee (or whatever) being a "poison" to avoid. But I have found the "negative" imagery to not be very effective in this setting.
Don't go eat a big juicy HAMBURGER RIGHT NOW! = (salivate).
(hmm, hamburgers...)

I THINK its best to focus on the positive foods, behaviors exclusively, although I am not 100% certain of that.

I think its an excellent idea to make a health and fitness recording, and then basically memorize it, and ingrain it, until its a mental-physical habit.

I think the power of self-suggestion would work here as well.
One could have a REALISTIC goal-weight set point, list the specific exercises or times, best new foods to integrate, and Visualize oneself actually jogging, (or whatever) and having a lot of fun doing it. The entire Vision of the Healthy Lifestyle.
I know some folks who live healthy, and its totally effortless for them. Its automatic. Its who they ARE. (see above).

It obviously would be great to listen to during a workout.

So far, I have found to try and keep the recordings as short as possible is the best. Short, compact, clear, concise, fun, upbeat.
For me anyway, what starts to happen, is NEW Internal Dialogue starts to go automatically in your mind. These thoughts begin to turn from deliberate thoughts-images, to AUTOMATIC THOUGHTS-IMAGES.

Be patient.
The first day you might rebel and stop at McDonalds, as you are thinking about food. Eat a Big Mac while the recording is playing, and have fun with it! Enjoy the Cognitive Dissonance!
After a number of repetitions, it starts to "sink in".
Also, its useful to repeat the info OUT LOUD, in an echo, at times.

I do this to learn dialogue and scripts for acting/speaking stuff.
It works for this too.

At a certain point, you will be able to recite everything in this area by memory.

I have no problem discussing this here, if the Webmaster has no problem. Its just that some of the "further reaches" of this stuff can get pretty "heavy". But health, nutrition, and fitness is pretty straight up.
I would be interested in the info you put together.
My Health section is just an overview, and I ABSOLUTELY MUST MAKE IT PERFECT NOW!
(kidding)

My Health recording is on my List!

Coz
 
Also, personally, I am not into "Affirmations" per se.
Its a big subject, HUGE, but sometimes a person can have an affirmation, "I am eating healthy", then right after that there is the rapid automatic thought-image, "But I LOVE those Big Macs, and they are on sale, etc".

Or more destructively, "I'm a fat pig". (thought-image)
That gets into Core Belief territory. (The "I am" of Identity).
Many of our fixed patterns, seem to actually come from these Core Beliefs. Changing them is tricky.

So I am NOT into the "motivational" type stuff at all, personally.
What can happen, is you can have "hidden" automatic thoughts which negate the affirmation, so that's why people stay stuck.

I think the key is to carefully observe ones automatic, reflexive thoughts, and then Transform them, and DISPUTE them if necessary.
That is pure CBT-REBT.

But this is VERY individual.
I just don't want to give the impression that one is "chanting" rah-rah slogans in their head. At least for me, I would feel like a moron.
For me anyway, its about Perception, and processing information.
But this is utterly subjective stuff.

So its not about what's in the recording per se, but rather how we are processing that information EACH TIME we listen to it...
You could have great info recorded, yet NEGATE it each time you hear it, almost automatically, without even realizing it.
Its slippery stuff...

Coz
 
Also, i would HIGHLY suggest you start SIMPLE.

Go and sit somewhere interesting, or go for a walk, and Brainstorm out ONE PAGE (or more) off the top of your head, TRUST YOUR IN-TUITION, generate the info from WITHIN. (that is an important point). Collect.

Organize it, then record a rough one.
You will have some tech/audio problems, etc.
Once you figure that out, then you have a rough recording done.

Then print out that page, and keep it with you.
AS YOU LISTEN to it, you will get a FLOOD of related ideas. Write these down.
Then after week or few days, retype, rerecord it.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

After a few weeks, the Outcomes will settle in.
You will have a powerful, totally comprehensive Doc of your Health Outcomes, and they will be stable over time, at least the next few years, or longer.

Then its all about repetition, and exercising your Free Will in the moment, to create new habits.
I have learned, it takes FAR more repetitions than we would like.
But that's ok, whatever it takes.

Coz
 
Ahhh. I see a fundamental difference in our approaches. It appears to me that your methods and techniques are centered around what is already inside you. My methods and techniques are centered around something very extenal.

A believe that I would find a recording of me trying to alter my own standards with "affirmations" that came from within me to quite boring. I would likely be able to block this out and it would be mere background noise. In that instance there could be some subliminal absorption I don't want it to be subliminal.

I want to feed my mind facts and information. That's what I've done with the GTD CDs. In altering my standards for health and fitness I plan to read information and facts about diet and exercise that I pull from the Internet. For example there is a lot of good articles about walking at walking.about.com. I'm planning to record myself reading some of these articles out loud. Where as I typically only read information once, I don't mind listening to it over and over during my commutes. Going back to the age old parable that "we are what we eat", I want to feed my mind the types of data that I believe will provide the expected outcomes.

I believe that our two methods will likely have a similar number of similarities and differences. It would be interesting to see which one proved most successful in a controlled labratory situation.
 
Ahhh. I see a fundamental difference in our approaches. It appears to me that your methods and techniques are centered around what is already inside you. My methods and techniques are centered around something very extenal.

A believe that I would find a recording of me trying to alter my own standards with "affirmations" that came from within me to quite boring. I would likely be able to block this out and it would be mere background noise. In that instance there could be some subliminal absorption I don't want it to be subliminal.

I want to feed my mind facts and information. That's what I've done with the GTD CDs. In altering my standards for health and fitness I plan to read information and facts about diet and exercise that I pull from the Internet. For example there is a lot of good articles about walking at walking.about.com. I'm planning to record myself reading some of these articles out loud. Where as I typically only read information once, I don't mind listening to it over and over during my commutes. Going back to the age old parable that "we are what we eat", I want to feed my mind the types of data that I believe will provide the expected outcomes.

I believe that our two methods will likely have a similar number of similarities and differences. It would be interesting to see which one proved most successful in a controlled labratory situation.
 
CosmoGTD said:
One idea about the health stuff, I would not suggest putting, "I am stopping eating chocolate bars".
The instant you do that, you will start thinking about eating chocolate bars 24/7! (or coffee, or whatever).
I tried making a list of "foods to avoid" a while back. WRONG!
It makes you crave them. Even caffeine, which I quit about a year ago, I put down, "I stay away from caffeine", so I started to crave it.
Its the power of suggestion.

What MIGHT work though, is to PERHAPS create the negative vision of coffee (or whatever) being a "poison" to avoid. But I have found the "negative" imagery to not be very effective in this setting.
Don't go eat a big juicy HAMBURGER RIGHT NOW! = (salivate).
(hmm, hamburgers...)

Coz
Click to expand...

I can tell you what works for me, a low-carber for a year and a half now and 56 pounds lighter. Whenever I feel a temptation, I simply remember the absolute worst one that I've ever eaten. I don't look at a Krispy Kreme and think "umm, delicious warm tasty donut". I think "ugh, gluey, sickenen sweet, slightly salty donut." And I've hit the point I'm not interested in them at all (and I've never eaten a Krispy Kreme, which may make it easier :) )

You don't spend any time up front trying to memorize a list of foods to avoid. You just need to keep in mind at that bad food you've eaten in your life and pull up those memories when needed.
 
Well, actually that's not quite what I meant, that's the problem with plain text communication, its very difficult! I actually said I do NOT believe in using "affirmations".

For me, I KNOW what to do to live a healthy lifestyle. I know it all already.
Its doing what I know, more frequently, which is desired.
I know what to eat, how much, what kind of exercise to do, how much exercise, etc.
Its the DOING that slips.

On the other hand, your strategy of filling your mind with more facts about health sounds good to me.That seems to me to be about Knowledge acquisition, which is great.

For me, in terms of health, I "know" 1000x more than enough to life a healthy lifestyle, and I do live a healthy lifestyle.
But I want to DO more of what I know in this case.

This type of thing is totally individual.
My view is to trust your own In-Tuition...or not!

Each human being seems to learn in ASTOUNDINGLY idiosyncratic ways. This is something i have to keep reminding myself...

Coz

stargazer_rick said:
Ahhh. I see a fundamental difference in our approaches. It appears to me that your methods and techniques are centered around what is already inside you. My methods and techniques are centered around something very extenal.

A believe that I would find a recording of me trying to alter my own standards with "affirmations" that came from within me to quite boring. I would likely be able to block this out and it would be mere background noise. In that instance there could be some subliminal absorption I don't want it to be subliminal..
Click to expand...
 
I have done this as well.
I decided to kick coffee, so what i did is create a "negative Cognition" about coffee. (caffeine damaging the liver, low-blood sugar, pesticides, stained teeth, bad breath, dehydration, etc)
http://home.howstuffworks.com/caffeine.htm
Basically, i consciously went overboard and made coffee seem like "poison" to me, and i haven't had one since.
BUT, caffeine can sneak up on you as well, when you start drinking a Coke, or whatever. :wink:

Deliberately creating a "negative Cognition" of something does work. Decades ago, (long story), that's how i quit smoking in one day, and now smoking is one of the most revolting things on earth to me. Basically, i decided i didn't want to die a horrible prolonged death from cancer from smoking, like my landlady at college.

Anyway, i don't really suggest doing this type of stuff in a recording, to be repeated, i don't think. Its worth a try though.
But the negative stuff, overdone, does not seem to produce good results.
Perhaps a "negative flooding" recording would work to be done in a special way. But be careful with this stuff. One "well known" Guru of "self-help" teaches this type of stuff, and it can create REAL serious problems for people, if misused.

Coz

teripittman said:

I can tell you what works for me, a low-carber for a year and a half now and 56 pounds lighter. Whenever I feel a temptation, I simply remember the absolute worst one that I've ever eaten. I don't look at a Krispy Kreme and think "umm, delicious warm tasty donut". I think "ugh, gluey, sickenen sweet, slightly salty donut." And I've hit the point I'm not interested in them at all (and I've never eaten a Krispy Kreme, which may make it easier :) )

You don't spend any time up front trying to memorize a list of foods to avoid. You just need to keep in mind at that bad food you've eaten in your life and pull up those memories when needed.
Click to expand...
 
CosmoGTD said:
Well, actually that's not quite what I meant, that's the problem with plain text communication, its very difficult! I actually said I do NOT believe in using "affirmations".
Click to expand...
This is one of the problems of discussing a post after it has been deleted. There is no way to go back and see what was originaly said. :cry: :x :cry: :x
 
Actually, Rick, i said it in my recent posted post.
But anyway, it doesn't matter what i said. Do what works for you. Experiment.
I am still experimenting.

Coz
 
Disappointed

Coz,

I have been working for the last week on outcome statements to record. I logged in this evening to review your articles again, and found that you had removed them. I was sorry to see that happen.

I didn't think that it was off topic at all. GTD is 95% mental. Your contribution was spot on.

You didn't by any chance save that material did you?
 
Hi there, yes of course I do have all the material.
But as I mentioned as well, I felt VERY uncomfortable with a number of aspects of what I put up.
I have been studying a lot of different ideas, for a number of years, and a good portion of what I had put up there I felt could be misused.
I don't want to go into all the details here, but as I mentioned above, some of this stuff, as I was outlining it, could be similar to a system of self-generated "Thought Reform".
Now that term might mean nothing to you, but if a person does some in-depth research into that subject, they might know what I mean. That is serious stuff.

The bottom line, this can be very powerful stuff that can be used improperly. I don't want to "suggest" for people to do things that might have negative side-effects.

This may sound melodramatic, but some of the techniques I mentioned I have picked up over the years, and they are extremely powerful, and I could tell you a number of well-known people right now who use these same techniques on many thousands of people, without their awareness, for inappropriate and unethical purposes.
I discovered some of what I was using was taken from that, and mixed in with other ideas from different fields.

Maybe I am over-reacting, but I don't think so. There is a lot of abuse of these types of tools happening right now.
Modifying and rescripting core beliefs, schemas, automatic thoughts, internal images, Identity, and many of the other areas i mentioned, can have a profound impact on a person.
I'll put it this way. We can basically make ourselves believe anything, so this needs to be handled with caution.
 
Well, OK

Coz,

I'd be the last person to argue that you shouldn't have control over your own work. If you are that deeply concerned about the material, then I fully support you following the dictates of your conscience.

If you publish more of it in the future, I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in reading it. Please let us know.
 
CosmoGTD said:
I have been studying a lot of different ideas, for a number of years, and a good portion of what I had put up there I felt could be misused.
Click to expand...
Kind of makes one wonder where the world would be if Hitler, Ossama Bin Laden, or Sadam Husein had been aware of the GTD methodologies.

I would expect that most of the folks that are actively involved in studying GTD are too busy doing good in their lives to be concerned with how they will use their knowledge for evil. Likewise, most of the truley "evil" people feel like they already know it all so they won't be studying GTD.

Just my $.02. :D
 
Hi Rick, again its not GTD ideas that concerned me, but the specific ideas i posted that are not GTD, and appear to be related to a comprehensive system of so-called "Thought Reform" which the individual is doing one onself. The concern here is for what a person is doing to themselves, perhaps unwittingly.
I don't know how i can be any clearer than in the posts i have made recently, so i will just leave it at that.

Also, Scott, thanks for understanding my concerns.

Lets move on, and either develop responsible strategies for using these types of audio-recordings, or just drop the subject altogether.

Coz
 
Hitler and others...

I think Hitler, Ossama, Sadam and other successful (in their evil job) leaders are simply highly motivated and focused. They do not need to use GTD or make lists of NAs because these lists and ideas fill their whole mind.
TesTeq
 
I think the individual mind, making its way through life in the 21st century, especially in the West, is like a minnow in the mouth of the Amazon. We have virtually no control over what patterns and apparent cause-and-effect situations our brains pick up and use; what “certainties”; not to mention other peoples values, principles and goals that we pick up along the way.

Anything that can help us push back the tide a little and install something that we would prefer to have in our minds is worth considering.

However, two problems arise:

1). If our knowledge base is made up of stuff we have picked up along the way, how can we make objective judgements about what is right for us?

2). How can we know that the idea we want to install in our minds will fit into all possible situations in which we are likely to find ourselves on a day to day basis?

The plainest bird or the drabbest mammal fit perfectly into their environments: if you made even a subtle change in them, things would start to go wrong.

Likewise, maybe a seemingly dull/unrewarding/frustrating life is made up of numerous subtleties and undercurrents which, if we try to reprogram one of them, will throw us completely out of kilter in all sorts of unpredictable ways.

Can you have a little self-implanted program running that deals solely with your food intake and ensure that you stick to your diet, while the rest of you remains unprogrammed, serendipitously waiting to see what life will bring us today?

This is not a criticism, I wish there WAS a way to straighten out annoying personal traits – but maybe some stuff is getting out to early for general usage- in bits and pieces rather that as part of an overall life management strategy?

I know this is echoing my previous post “Is goal setting bad for you?” and my concern is much the same: we might not only throw ourselves out of kilter, but also trouble those close to us.

DFE
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top