Is Goal Setting Bad for You?

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Re: goals etc

Mardo said:
I have mentioned before that a book I really like is the Power of Full engagement by Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartz. There premise is that managing energy not time is the key to high performance. Relying upon discipline doesnt work but building a small number of rituals into your weekly life can make a huge difference in the energy you bring to all of your life. its based on their work with athletes. I am trying to institute a few rituals, time for exercise, healthy eating and an afternoon cup of tea.
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Mardo,

would you please tell me more about this "manage your energy and not your time" method?

Rainer
 
I spent the weekend reading a backlog of downloads I printed out over the last year.

Some dealt with the theme “fear of success”. The first thing they said we need to get right if we want to avoid fear of success is our self esteem.

The remedy for low self esteem always begins with the advice that we should accept and like ourselves as we are, unconditionally. THEN we can select whatever upgrades or enhancements appeal to us and go get them. The reason for our projects should NEVER be to make us feel better about ourselves. Rather, they should be sensible things to do: losing weight makes you healthier so you will live longer and also enjoy the physical part of your life more; achieving a degree or other qualification will make you more money; getting a promotion gives you more authority over your daily work life and gets you more money etc. But getting a “fix” of success is the wrong way.

(Did you ever see a child climbing onto her father’s knee and snuggling into him with unconditional joy? He’s over-weight, doesn’t have a great job, but that means nothing to her. For him, losing weight and getting a promotion would mean a better future for them all. But it would be a tragedy if the child at some point said “I love you more now daddy because you earn more money”.)

Bottom line, we should just love ourselves as we are, and then go for the add-ons that enhance the quality of our lives.

The reason I mention this is because of the way Cosmo/Dr. Ellis pointed out that the goal-setter gurus spear-head their attack by making us feel bad about ourselves. You might have been getting along quite well with yourself, but then they start to list things: you could lose weight; what about that 60 year old who runs a marathon a month?; you could be earning three times your current salary … and we can tell you just how to do it.

I see a perfect vicious circle here: step one, you attack the victim’s self esteem by pointing out how great their life could be, but isn’t; step two, you launch them on a process which they believe is a self-improvement process, but because of their low self esteem, they will have “fear of success” (I’m not worthy of success!”) - they will sabotage the process they are on – and will come back to purchase more promises and reassurance.

Quite a set up!

Dave
 
Value

Busydave said:
I see a perfect vicious circle here: step one, you attack the victim’s self esteem by pointing out how great their life could be, but isn’t; step two, you launch them on a process which they believe is a self-improvement process, but because of their low self esteem, they will have “fear of success” (I’m not worthy of success!”) - they will sabotage the process they are on – and will come back to purchase more promises and reassurance.
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Affirmative!

Think "I am a value!" instead of "I have a value!"

Having good intensions and nothing more than good intensions will only get you into more trouble. If someone has experienced and knows that he/she is a value then there will come the day when she/he will be able to say "You are a value" to someone else.

Rainer
 
Busydave said:
>Bottom line, we should just love ourselves as we are

Yes, that's the first half of "The Golden Rule".

>and then go for the add-ons that enhance the quality of our lives.

I would say better that we should have the requisite humility to seek opportunities for personal improvement.

>I see a perfect vicious circle here: step one, you attack the victim’s self esteem by pointing out how great their life could be, but isn’t; step two, you launch them on a process which they believe is a self-improvement process, but because of their low self esteem, they will have “fear of success” (I’m not worthy of success!”) - they will sabotage the process they are on – and will come back to purchase more promises and reassurance.

Nobody forces you to buy. This kind of sales approach is directed towards people looking for a quick-fix, or for someone to hand them what they (think they) want. But, in fairness, most of the gurus I have read try to make you believe that you already have the power/ability to make the changes, provided that you realize that change must come from within. If that makes somebody feel bad because they aren't prepared to make the changes that they say they want, it's not really the writer's fault.

I would like to think that most of us accept the written "noise" and hype for what it is, and are more interested in those little pieces of thinking and method that might strike a chord and help us to sort out our own ideas.

Andrew
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Believe me, this is the actual self-conscious sales process with many of these folks!

1) Find your customers PAIN
2) Stir up their PAIN and make it worse, and make them really FEEL it.
3) Heal their pain with your products and services.

Busydave said:
The reason I mention this is because of the way Cosmo/Dr. Ellis pointed out that the goal-setter gurus spear-head their attack by making us feel bad about ourselves. You might have been getting along quite well with yourself, but then they start to list things: you could lose weight; what about that 60 year old who runs a marathon a month?; you could be earning three times your current salary … and we can tell you just how to do it.

I see a perfect vicious circle here: step one, you attack the victim’s self esteem by pointing out how great their life could be, but isn’t; step two, you launch them on a process which they believe is a self-improvement process, but because of their low self esteem, they will have “fear of success” (I’m not worthy of success!”) - they will sabotage the process they are on – and will come back to purchase more promises and reassurance.

Quite a set up!

Dave
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Andrew

To be honest, I think I now read a lot of stuff, as you say, to look for any new insights that might be lurking there. When some point I have glossed over many times is said in a different way, it can strike home for the first time.

Most of the books and websites tend to describe, often very accurately, how our lives would be if we were fully organised, motivated, focused etc. This vision can fire us up with hope. But then we return to the reality of our desk, empty-handed, and the hope fades.

There are only a few actual techniques for getting things done. It’s quite rare to come across a new technique. Jim Rohn makes the point that success is just a matter of applying a few fundamentals consistently. He even says we should be extremely wary of anyone purporting to have a new technique.

I have to admit that I was a sucker for the “quick fix” sales pitch a few years ago. Fortunately I did not spend very much money on it – not many self help seminars here in Ireland! I will defend myself by saying that I was not searching for a quick fix (I believed I was genetically predisposed to be disorganised and unfocussed, and beyond help) … but when I came across Mr Robbins I believed that I had been shown a way out. The fact that it appeared to be quick as well lured me in at high speed.

After a few years, it became obvious that I could drop the word “quick”.

Ironically though, I was just this morning re-reading some passages that I underlined in “Awaken the Giant Within” several years ago, and I found that they are all solid and workable ideas. The only problem is, they are embedded in a style of delivery that leads the unwary (me) to believe that it all happens quickly.

I can now read him calmly, and follow his line or argument, which is basically tarnished old nuggets of common sense polished up so that their original value shows.

Dave
 
Coz

Hopefully the process has a limited life cycle (although there are always more people coming along behind).

As I said above, it took me several years to realise there was no quick fix. And even then, it was a reluctant admission to myself – “how come all this time has gone by and I am still not living my dreams? What happened to ‘quick’?”

I remember about three days after I started reading Awaken the Giant Within, I played a basketball game. I was so fired up beforehand that I really felt there was electricity flying through my arms and legs.

I played my usual average game – and went home furious with disappointment and frustration. (The little matter of focussed hard work and extra diligent training had slipped my attention).

Later, I even ran into what you described above:

“One point i forgot to make, that others have mentioned, is that all of the Goal-Setting stuff can actually make people do WORSE!
My view on this, is that it can become an AVOIDANCE strategy.
Instead of Just Doing It, like many successful people do, some people who are AFRAID of failing, rejection, etc, instead focus on Goal-Setting, and Wishful Thinking, and they fall behind.
I have heard many people say that they got better results BEFORE they knew any of this Goal-Setting stuff!!!
In my view, this is because all of the Goal-Setting is just a way to AVOID doing the hard work, and risking failure and rejection.”
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I noticed that in a recent article Robbins does not seem to be leading with the magic-lamp approach any more – he seems to be extolling the power of steely hard work from the start. At least he’s getting more realistic.

Dave
 
Once again, got logged out before I posted the above.

Does the site automatically log us out after a certain number of minutes?

Dave
 
Busydave said:
Does the site automatically log us out after a certain number of minutes?
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Yes, it does. In the FAQ section there is written:

"Why do I get logged off automatically?
If you do not check the Log me in automatically box when you login the
board will only keep you logged in for a preset time. This prevents
misuse of your account by anyone else. To stay logged in check the box
during login, this is not recommended if you access the board from a
shared computer, e.g. library, internet cafe, university cluster, etc."

But it doesn't tell us how long the "preset time" lasts.

Rainer
 
Well, i don't know about that.
Robbins is now moving into "wellness" marketing, and is selling stuff like the "Qlink", which is supposed to miraculously heal your bioenergy fields, and protect you from EMF's! http://www.clarus.com/
http://www.clarus.com/endorsements.html
Its a total, utter big-money scamola, in my not so humble opinion. Its more "wishful thinking".

Wishful thinking is big business. Look at the money made by lotteries, and casinos.

Robbins sells many different things to many different people.
In my view, if he wrote a textbook on Unconscious Social Influence, and described what he does, THEN that would be worth studying!
What he teaches about Goals is more harmful than useful, in my opinion. It makes people too stressed out, and hurts performance.
But, that is Step 2. Stir up the customers PAIN.

anyway, don't get me started about Robbins!! :roll:

Anonymous said:
I noticed that in a recent article Robbins does not seem to be leading with the magic-lamp approach any more – he seems to be extolling the power of steely hard work from the start. At least he’s getting more realistic.

Dave
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Oops! I must have missed that promotion. The latest one we see here is the “Get the Edge” Infomercial.

As for printed matter, apart from Awaken the Giant, the latest thing I read was an article in GQ magazine which is reproduced on the Robbins site. Tony gives the interviewer the “Shoulding all over yourself” treatment, telling him to roll up his sleeves, get stuck in and go for huge results.

I think he’s essentially a good motivator. Like Tom Peters says, he should have stuck to the knitting. It’s a pity when successful guys go cosmic, and their tires lose all contact with the road.

Dave
 
Robbins has declared he wants to be a Billionaire, so moving into the "new age wellness" business seems to be how he's going to try and do it. Big profits, low margins, in that business.
I am sorta getting off topic, except to make the point that i believe it is very important to carefully analyze the "information" being put out, and to see if it has an ulterior motives embedded in it, or hidden biases. Its pretty hard to find solid, good, unbiased, honest information, in my experience.
Finding valid and helpful "self-help" info is surprisingly difficult!

Busydave said:
I think he’s essentially a good motivator. Like Tom Peters says, he should have stuck to the knitting. It’s a pity when successful guys go cosmic, and their tires lose all contact with the road.

Dave
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Richest Franchise in Sport

what kind of sport is this? i ve never heard about it and never seen it...
I like - football, tennis, Online Casino figure skating, extreme sports
Dislike - hockey, basketball, car racing, box and all the rest
 
Hell

Busy dave said:
What the hell was that about?
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Dave,

I assume you are referring to the previous posting. It is a bogus message put there by a computer program. The idea is to get the unsuspecting to click on that embedded link.

Remember a while back we were getting complaints of a lot of bogus "members" in the member list whose web sites were porno? Same thing.
 
Scott

I was hoping it wasn’t a programmed posting. From what I can see, on-line gambling is reaching epidemic proportions. It’s going to be as big a concern as binge drinking.

Dave
 
Top 20 Wealthiest Soccer clubs

what kind of sport is this? i ve never heard about it and never seen it...
I like - football, tennis, Mortgage Elimination figure skating, extreme sports
Dislike - hockey, basketball, car racing, box and all the rest
 
Top 20 Wealthiest Soccer clubs

Saw that this morning. I've said it before....for all you want to talk about United and their international profile Car, they really seem to do business the right way. I'm interested to see just how much Kenyon had to do with these results, so next year will be interesting.
 
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